On the Subject of PTS NC MAXes

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Campagne, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. Liewec123

    even if they kept current extended mags it wouldn't do the trick, the damage has came down to being less than TR and VS,
    yet the sustain fire is only a fraction of what the TR/VS weapons have, we need something like TWENTY rounds per mag.
    even then, we'd still have less damage in cqc than TR and VS which is straight up wrong for shotguns.
  2. Demigan

    I think you misunderstand.

    A weapon of immense power is hard to balance. Take the OS, it's so powerful that you need a lot of downsides to make it anywhere near balanced. Unfortunately this means it can be easy to have your work destroyed before you use it. So while the weapon is unique, it's extremes make or break it too easily.

    The MAX's are similar. They are too extreme, and will either pay off too much (example: MAX at an entrance while supported) or be almost punishing to the user (example: MAX's out in the open).

    You can still make MAX's unique, in fact the options I gave would make the MAX more unique and varied in gameplay than the current MAX. Just remember what the old ZOE mobility did and you know that trading in some armor for mobility would do exactly what you want: put fear into people when a MAX enters. The choice and versatility, each with upsides, downsides and their own unique approach, would make these type of MAX's exactly what you want and more. But with the extremes reduced they would be less hit or miss, while also preventing the situation where a MAX is either too tough or too exposed to work.
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  3. csvfr

    I don’t see why infantry needs to be put on a pedestal. By definition they are the most squishy unit and should rely on support, tactics, skill etc in order to carry out their mission – which is to capture points. This is particularly hard as NC due to their starter weapons not being as effective in CQC as the other factions. But their MAXes also compensate by at least allowing to hold certain bases such as bio-labs. When this is nerfed out of the game it will be less fun for those who play the meta as there just is no point in playing organized only to be steamrolled by VS on a daily basis.
  4. Inogine

    I'll just state that I disagree. That argument to me smacks of HA with cardboard heaped over him to give him a "new look." Essentially any and all faction identity is being stripped slowly and regularly bit by bit. There are a few successes in some additional content, but mostly it seems to be sliding over to the VS side of things where effectiveness is concerned, and just downright muddling it all together so that nothing stands out in others.

    Real balance, unfortunately, will elude us cause it'd have to be a "from the ground up" proposal at this point. Unique roles would have to come back in a big way, and some limiters introduced. I won't bother even remotely attempting to state where I think I'd take it as well... Pointless.

    That said, I've always thought and still do think of PS2 as a combined arms game. The only real one to date unless you're looking into a few sims. Slowly things are combining together to form something I'm just not recognizing anymore with fingers pointing in all the wrong places for the cause.
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  5. Demigan

    Infantry are the most squishy unit, but the question is "how squishy do they need to be?".

    The cost/effectiveness of all units in the game needs to be taken into account. Every single unit should be put on a pedestal regardless of them being infantry, tanks, aircraft or MAX's. It shouldn't matter if you played Tanks all day, or infantry, or aircraft, or a mixture of any of these. You should simply be having fun. This is achieved by making it all balanced compared to each other. I've proposed before to make most tanks and aircraft practically free and remove the ridiculous "but I pay X amount so I should wreck anything that hasn't paid resources" and refocus resource use on using additional boosts, weapon pods and abilities. This would allow players to play whatever they want whenever they want, which to me has always been a large focus of PS2.

    If you read my proposal for MAX's, you would have noticed that I did not ask for the MAX's to be nerfed, merely to have their extremes shifted to more moderate advantages and disadvantages to make it easier to balance. It would make MAX's easier and more often used in any scenario without making them either extremely powerful or almost useless as the situation shifts.
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  6. Demigan

    Quite literally a thousand ways you could interpret my proposal, and you go for "HA with cardboard heaped over him"? If you don't understand it why are you posting? My proposal could just as easily have been "LA with cardboard heaped over him" considering I also mention maneuverability abilities that it could pick. At "worst" my proposal would make MAX's as similar to HA as a long-range infiltrator and SMG infiltrator are similar to each other: Despite their similarities how you play with them is a night and day difference. At best the MAX remains a completely unique unit.

    Look at what I proposed again. Instead of cardboard heaped on a HA, which I take to mean somewhere between 10 to 30% damage resistance instead of the 90% it has now, it could be around 40 to 80% depending on the MAX you chose. It would be faster, it's shield does not have to be an ability like you apparently assume but the way I proposed it the shield would have replaced some of it's health, IE it would have been a standard always on infantry shield like we already have on normal infantry allowing the MAX to be a bit more autonomous from Engineers without making them completely free from Engineers. It's weapons can still be unique from HA's, it's abilities would still be unique from other classes. So many options...

    But you think it's just a HA with cardboard heaped on it. Why? Why are you deliberately choosing a bad version of the MAX I proposed? This is completely your choice! You could have made a MAX you agree with based on what I proposed! Try it! Look at what I proposed and make a MAX with abilities and stats you would agree with, the freedom to do it is right there!

    First you assume it's a (faction-specific) HA with cardboard, now suddenly it reduces faction-flavor? My idea would increase faction flavor! Just look at the TR and VS MAX: Currently they are both using magazine-fed machinegun-type weapons and an almost useless faction-specific ability. Whoop dee do such faction-specifics. With my idea you could give the TR a Barrage ability for their MAX and a standard Anchor ability to boot and give the VS MAX a short-ranged Charge ability, slower than the old one but it wouldn't prevent firing while active for example. There! Already more faction-specifics than before, and you can expand on this more and more.

    That has nothing to do with what I proposed but with how the devs have lately handled the balance.

    Or you take the idea I had and use that. That would work.
  7. Gen.Drake61

    i play tr on ps4,the tr pop on the ps4 version is slowly dying,people have either left the game completely, or switched to nc/vs, and i suspect players loyal to the nc and vs are gaming the system by logging into either their vs or nc mains while playing on tr (weve actually run accross tr players helping out the factions there loyal to by logging into their tr characters and teamkilling) whenever tr gets close to winning,temkilling still an issue(its mostly used by trolls and cheaters,which dbg announced on twitch they wont even handle that issue.)my outfit and me also suspect lag switching is at play,i have no hope that the dx 11/12 update will be finished in time and the api updated along with the crashing issue being fixed,i suspect like ccp they will shut the game down and blame the console community like ccp games did with dust514,when its mostly thier fault,they should have already updated to dx 11/12 while initially making the game,then we wouldnt be having all of these issues,but i supose thats what for profit organizations do,it sucks,compared to ps4,you pc players have it good.
  8. Skraggz

    Direct x 11 went live just over a year before ps2 came out. Direct x12 was 4 years after. Development cycles are usually 3-5 years for a game. They have to get it out the door to get money. Not sure you grasp what a last minute decision like that would cost in time and money.... only reason they are able to do it now is because of the rehashed assets being used in PS:A.
  9. csvfr

    So squishy that "instagibbing" is a real risk if the infantry doesn't play their game right. And if you don't like that aspect you should have the balanced option of spending your certs, nanites, and time on certing specialized units like MAXes and Tanks. As well as suffer their drawbacks - some of which you seem to address in the proposal - but that's not the point now is there as the thread is about nerfing the NC MAX specifically.

    False. Take the Vanguard nerf for example, forcing drivers to fight less and repair more in the name of balance. This is the opposite of fun and also reduces the action-factor of the game (explosions, shrapnel, bullets, etc). By making everything "balanced compared to each other", and not "balanced compared to their counterparts", you are dumbing down the game to unnatural, unfun levels.
    Which you can if thinking about the MAX/Tank as a situational "boost" costing resources, and switch to a tank/sunderer/whatever you can afford after its use is over. "Situational" is the keyword here, because playing a MAX, Tank, ESF or whatever would not be fun if it was ineffective at what it is supposed to do (slaughter units lower in the foodchain).

  10. Crash Bandicoot

    Palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy...
  11. Crash Bandicoot

  12. OneShadowWarrior

    You should try being TR and seeing the Banshee, Prowler, Vulcan, Stirker all get the nerf.

    You should try being Vanu and seeing the Betelguese, Canis, Max Suit Zealot Overdrive all get the nerf.

    Then you can gripe. Vanu never uses Zealot overdrive and TR don’t anchor, but I guarantee you a NC max will have a shield.....

    Join the club NC, want some cheese with that whine? You get a NC Max Suit that has a shield and on top of that that the TR or VS maxes can’t even stop?

    Go to mommy!
  13. JibbaJabba

    I'm told there is one NC Outfit on emerald, a fairly large one, that is planning to go main TR or VS after the update.

    These are some of the guys that likely contributed to the Nerf because they are notorious for solving their problems with maxes. Their leader mains max during their ops. They drop piles of them on every base they take.

    Look: If your KDR drops like a rock after this nerf then you are part of the problem. If this upsets you so that you cannot live without your NC Max and have to switch factions then you are part of the problem.

    I'm not naming the exact outfit but know this: If you guys don't buckle down and learn how to be effective after this then I'll have zero respect for your entire outfit. I've already lost respect for your leader but it will now extend to every one of you. Your outfit will become THE laughingstock of the server.
  14. Trigga

    Do you think perhaps you are taking this a little too seriously?
    Having a serious lack of respect for people you dont even know because they play a computer game in a different way to you? Really?
    How do you know the outfit leader isnt a firefighter? Or a disabled childrens volunteer worker?

    Whats more, theyre not even (from the sound of it, dont play on Emerald) breaking the rules, theyre opperating within the ruleset of the game.
    Who are you to tell them they cant play the game within the ruleset?

    If anyone should be disrespected its the players who blame legit game mechanics for their loss, ***** and whine about it on the forums, and arnt willing to actualy play this game as it was intended.
    The problem around here is that this mentality seems to be surrounded by a circle jerk of people playing soggy biscuit.
    No backbone and proud of it seemingly...
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  15. JibbaJabba

    Nope. Not taking it too seriously. Heck, not taking it seriously at all.

    And when I say I'll have zero respect for them I mean as players of planetside. Spare me the lectures on some Make a Wish kid playing planetside or whatever straw man tripe you're trying to pull.

    And I don't care who is playing by rules or not. The game is a sandbox. Some people choose to build cute little castles in it. Some use it as a litter box. All are playing by rules.

    Play with some imbalanced class or playstyle? Knock yourself out.
    Play it constantly because you cannot win without it? Again, knock yourself out. Just don't ask me to have any respect for you.
    Play it constantly and drive an entire outfit to do the same? Ok, now you're ruining the gameplay of other players and simply being a jerk. But sure yeah, "free country" and all that.
    Play it constantly because you cannot win without it, then throw a tantrum and switch to the next best imbalanced class to continue your adventures in suck?? Sure, go ahead. You're now a laughingstock.... but it's a free game so whatever.

    You do you man. Just don't ask me not to laugh at you. :p
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  16. Trephanation

    If it’s the outfit I’m thinking of, they were VS originally and were fun to run at the time tbh, I was a part of it for a while. Then They all went to NC because of the VS population issues... it’d be funny to see them all come back lol. In the meantime, no harm done to me as I already have my dual Cos os ready :)
  17. JibbaJabba

    Mmm what do you mean they went NC because of VS population issues?

    I went from my own NC main over to VS a couple months back because VS had lowest pop. I'm not sure I've seen VS have more pop than NC on Emerald? When was this? They do during some odd hour I'm sure, but overall..
  18. Trephanation

    Yep, they hated the lower VS population, always losing/getting farmed and doubleteamed so they went to NC. I didn’t mind the challenge so i stayed VS. Send me a friend request in game and I’ll tell you about it when i’m on.
  19. HippoCryties

    Lol there should be no such thing as a MAX in this game. Be thankful you can still crutch on it becuase you guys who say it’s been hit too hard by the nerf hammer... ure trash.
  20. Inogine

    Because the Max is not infantry in my mind. It is a mechanized suit. It's meant to be big trouble when it rolls around, not just another infantry dude. It should be powerful, but perhaps not as common as we see them.

    As to the last bits, that was me musing on balance as a whole as I see it dying. Subject of opinion, but you take umbrage with most things I say.

    I don't mind giving some faction flavoring, but you don't have to kill the idea of the max to do it. That's where I disagree with your proposal which in my eyes makes the max look little more than more infantry flavor.

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