On Planetside "dying"

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Macho, May 31, 2014.

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  1. Macho

    Planetside may not be dying in terms of numbers, but it is losing what makes Planetside the unique game it is. Consequently, the core group of players who make up the leadership and foundations of outfits (the most unique part of this FPS) are leaving the game. Almost every staple outfit is hurting in terms of keeping numbers up and veteran players involved. The people who are the foundations of outfits are indispensable to this game.

    A lot of calls for changes seem to ignore the core of what Planetside is. Usually, the idea behind multiplayer games is about making sure players can face off in a fun and balanced way. And that’s not to say that PS2 should ignore these aspects… but fun and balanced fights aren’t what make this game great. I guess it would be more accurate to say that there is something more important than balancing X against Y or good fights.

    Planetside's greatness (and metagame) is about how players/outfits/empires can work together on a large scale to accomplish their goals. Whether it be an all out frontal assault, spec ops, airwings, armor divisions, ghost caps, sniping, mobile AA… PS2’s gameplay, mechanics and changes should always surround how groups of players, at any size and strength, can utilize teamwork to accomplish goals they set for themselves.

    The loss of so many dedicated players is due to the fact that in the current system, the role of teamwork, strategy and tactics doesn’t seem to mean much. Sure, some coordination is better than none, but the reality is that the game starts and ends with the zerg.

    The best changes in the updates are the ones where teamwork was enhanced. The one that stands out is the Gal/Sundy squad respawn change. How great was that change?

    I think people have lost sight of needing to push the team aspects in the nerf/buff/gameplay discussions. In all honestly, who cares if Libs, ZOE, or ESFs need a nerf when a 36 man team can’t do anything because of the redeploy, resource, and zerg aspects of the game. Sure, unbalanced things need addressing, but not at the expense continuing to ignore what makes Planetside Planetside.

    The frustration surrounding many of the updates is because the team aspect is almost never enhanced. New guns, camo, balances to weapons, and the majority of the updates… who cares about these? Great, so now we have a new gun we can shoot while doing the same thing. Great... the Lib is nerfed; now we can die to something else pursuing the same grind. These changes are not why people play the game nor will any buff or nerf bring people back.

    WHAT PEOPLE WANT ARE WAYS TO BE EFFECTIVE AS A TEAM. Yet we keeping getting things that make us effective as individuals. Very little has been added to allow teams to be more effective and have a bigger impact. And I would surmise that that’s all people want… to be a team. The unique experience Planetside gives people that they can’t find elsewhere is the large scale teamwork. Give them this and they’ll be dedicated, loyal, and support the game.

    I'm part of 666 (fallaciously flame away) and the most awesome moments of the game are watching 4 Gals, supported by the Airwing and Armor, drop on a base... 50+ people working together... you can't get that experience anywhere else. I don't really care if it's against a platoon or a ghost cap. That's what draws me to this game: the cooperation and teamwork. It's why I fly and mastered the Lib... it was the only vehicle that REQUIRED teamwork (harassers weren't out yet). Planetside is about the people I hang out with in Teamspeak and the different colored dots on the map that are all working toward a shared objective. The fights and territory control, while important, come in second to playing and working with my team. And I can see why many of the veterans are fed up with this game... the team aspect is virtually non-existent.

    We are losing the core player base because changes have rarely enhanced our ability to work and succeed as a team. Outfits are suffering and outright dying because there is little point to them… and I’m not sure people understand how big of a thing that is.

    Planetside is NOT simply about fighting. Planetside is about teamwork, cooperation, and execution; that's what people love to achieve and why they play this game. Those things mean almost nothing in the current system because they are negated by the redeploy, resources, and (lack of meaning in) territorial control systems. Furthermore, changes seem to ignore the gourp aspects of the game in favor of augmenting individuals. PS2 foundational players base (as well as new players) came for a game where teamwork was the core of what they did. SOE is losing that base because those players have not found what they are looking for. I hope future changes make it fun and WORTHWHILE running with my outfit.

    That’s about it. Here are some thoughts about upcoming changes and things that still need to be addressed.

    WE NEED MORE LOGISTICS

    Logistics = teamwork. More complicated logistics means that teams have to earn their position, both offensively and defensively. Earning your position is rewarding. I think a lot of people feel that the (lack of) logistics in the game makes it too easy to gain momentum. Spawning anywhere and getting anything you need is bad for strategy and tactics. It actually encourages people to play solo rather than with a team... which is the antithesis of what this game is about. The current system rewards the unprepared/uncoordinated and craps on those who have put in time and effort to achieve their position, both defensively and offensively. Unfortunately, the latter is almost always comprised of team oriented people.

    EARN YOUR OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE ACHIEVEMENTS:

    People talk negatively about zergs, and I understand and agree. But I also think a zerg is the ONLY way to accomplish something with the current system.
    For example:
    Take a platoon of 36 people. Not a zerg, but a large outfit or a couple of friendly squads working together. Let's say they start to push a quiet lane and start making progress. We all know how this story ends. It sucks when you have earned and achieved an offensive momentum (say moving on Mao) and suddenly the entire enemy force shows up out of nowhere and pulls whatever they need to stop you. Yeah, you found a fight, but it's not simply about the fight... it's about succeeding in achieving what you set out to do. It's more rewarding if you have to fight for it, but it's also disheartening when you know that soon as you're at NS Abandoned Offices, people are just gonna redeploy across the map to overwhelm you. The time, effort, coordination and strategy involved in that effort meant nothing. It's to the point where veteran players know how far they'll get before people warp across the map to stop them. Hell, the good teams know what zones are best for offensive and defensive holds and won't warp until they can fight in that zone.

    If we're fighting at Snowshear Tower and Future Crew shows up and wipes us, I'm not pissed because we got wiped. They are the best in the game at tower defense and will probably beat out most offensives. What pisses me off is that 1 minute ago, FC was defending Crossroads on Indar, saw that Snowshear was in trouble (ripe for certs) and made the leap almost instantaneously. That is absolutely infuriating, especially if we had been working to get to Snowshear for the past 45 minutes.

    In any MMO, people cannot simply jump maps. The sheer number of people that can warp to a new area playing means death to any strategy or tactic.

    GHOST CAPS:
    The other problem is that territory means nothing right now. Ghost capping happens because no one finds a downside to losing territory. Hopefully the continent lattice system (which looks like it will be pushed back) will change that. Simply put, the inter-continent system makes owning territory necessary and ghost capping will need to be addressed by factions lest they want surprise buttsex. I'm excited to see what this does for smaller outfits and spec-ops groups because running with the zerg won’t be necessary to make an impact.
    • Up x 40
  2. doombro

    We're not allowed to have that, the game thrives and depends on the ever-important lone wolves and solo players. How else are we going to have our 1v1 MLG noscope duels?
    • Up x 7
  3. Quiiliitiila

    For me, the thing that upsets the most is the fact that what once were three separate(ish) factions have slowly melded into copy/pastes of each other. We're all pretty much clones of each other wearing different costumes and shooting different color bullets.

    I WANT to see faction uniqueness, I truly believe that an overhaul of the empires to separate them in gameplay and mechanics would drive more players to the game. It would make it so people feel invested in their empire, create different tactics based on different weapons, strengths/weaknesses and skills. We're turning into just a larger version of generic FPS games out there, like Battlefield or CoD.
    • Up x 10
  4. Taemien

    The problem with Planetside 2 isn't because something happened, or didn't happen. The game will be 2 years old this year. FPSes just don't have the longevity that RPGes have. Yeah I'm sure someone can quote that there is a few still playing CS. But that game only requires a handful of players at a time. PS requires hundreds at a time.

    Best way to deal with Planetside is to modularize the servers like Landmark. On the deploy screen, not only can you choose which continent you wish to warp to, but also the server.
  5. MajiinBuu

    The game is doing just fine, I don't think it is dying. It just isn't as popular since it's initial release, the same with every game, ever. I don't know any outfits that are having any trouble keeping a steady population. Maybe if you log in at 6 in the morning the game might seem a little low on population, but again so is every other game in the world. I haven't noticed the most dedicated players leaving, I see most of them at least once a day. Teamwork is important in any MMO, but you seem to think that people should be forced to play together, rather than simply fighting alongside each other. I can deploy an AMS at an enemy base, through the course of a battle over a hundred people will spawn on it, relying on it to actually be able to offend the enemy base. I'm not part of the current platoon in the area, does that mean I'm not important, that I am ineffective because I chose to fight with my allies and not for them? A single sunderer might decide the fate of a battle. You don't need to be a part of the team to support the team.
    Also, redeploy is good.
  6. iller

    Agree with the OP that random Zerging has cut short the lifespan of dedicated Outfit folks. This was predicted over a year ago.
    • Up x 1
  7. Ikissyourface

    Since I started playing the game I have always been a solo player, rarely do I join squads, I never felt the need to. As a solo player I can do anything I want and go wherever I want, and I'm fine with it.

    I love playing the game but I am on the verge of quitting, not because I feel the urge for teamplay like you do, but because there is a lack of purpose. Like you said on your post losing territory means nothing. After you've done your 100th fight you feel like you've already done the entire game and what it can offer, and after that is just doing the same purposeless thing over and over.

    I know continental lattice/locking and resource revamp will address all that, but as of now there's just nothing new to make me want to stay.

    Personally I would want the lattice to change, I made a thread about it https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...the-lattice-hex-system-for-continents.188182/ but sorry I don't mean to hi-jack your thread I just feel the need to vent out my frustration. I'm desperate I don't want to quit but..it just seems closer and closer each day to the exit door for me.
  8. maudibe

    I like the ability to show up at any base my faction owns to defend it. Why be upset about a bunch of defenders showing up while your doing quite well as an organized platoon at that base CAUSE YOU DID A GAL DROP ON THEM. Naturally unless a battle is already raging there there wont be much resistance to you team 'ghost capping' the base. But....once the faction sees the timer ticking down and a little explosive battle evidence on the map, THEY SHOW UP to get in on the fun. Why do you think that is bad? If you think it is about taking territory then defending territory is important also, IT HAS TO BE.
    From my viewpoint , this game honors team play but that is not always available and so you have to give the lone wolf an opportunity to play without having to have team mates. To, me the game favors power and power comes from a Lib, an ESF, a tank, a vehicle of some sort, and then a MAX and lastly an infantryman. When organized, it favors tactical organization, with a balance of air, tanks, and infantry. A zerg of just infantry can outnumber a defensive group by 60%-40% and still easily lose IF.....the 40% has armor and planes and kill off the Sundies (i seen that done countless times). But...as a single player whos base is overrun, i can go back and get a plane but it wont do much good as i will get vaporized by skyguards, burster maxs, walkers on sundies, and the domination of superior numbers of enemy aircraft, where as IF....10 of us got ESFs it might be different.
    The game is for everyone to enjoy and those that organize and squad up, get to enjoy that, while those that lone wolf it, get to enjoy that aspect of being free to choose where and when they engage in a battle. The game doesn't punish anyone except for those things that are obviously OP where one guy has a better time due to say...taking out a lib and getting someone to gun with him.
  9. Codex561

    The center of the game is making your faction 'win', how you are going to contribute is the question! Outfits are a big part of it but lone wolves do their part as well.
    • Up x 1
  10. Macho

    True, but my dig was directed to the fact that our friend didn't even make it through the first sentence. He, in fact, got through 1/2 of the first sentence before rendering judgement. But I'm sure you realized this and just wanted to enlighten the masses. Thanks! BTW, whether PS2 is dying is open to interpretation... and thus, no matter what I said, is not a false statement. But I'm sure you and your logic were all over that.
  11. Alarox

    Everyone plays this game their own way. It is a sandbox game. There is no correct way to play the game.

    People stop playing the game when it isn't worth it anymore. Either because the game has gotten boring for them or because it is more stressful than it is enjoyable.

    That is it. There's nothing more to it.
    • Up x 6
  12. z1967

    Eh, if it is dying I am going down with the ship (till it becomes unplayable ofc). Besides, a few botched patches probably did in pops for awhile. Along with most MMOs losing pop in the summer. The big game changing updates will significantly change the populations. If they are also botched, or otherwise suck, then that will probably end up killing the game or lead to server merges.
    • Up x 2
  13. Iridar51

    So basically the biggest problem of the OP is that his ghostcapping outfit gets interrupted by enemy zergs :rolleyes:
    • Up x 2
  14. Inex

    Now I'll be honest, I hate FCRW's "Ohai, this fight is over now ktnxby" as much as anybody. And EXE's, and 666's and ... well you get the idea.

    But on the other hand:
    Keep in mind that you've been doing the same thing. All those little fights you've been facerolling on your way to Mao have felt the same thing you have, whether you teleported in or just rolled in from the next hex over.

    Outfits are a poison to the game. They avoid or destroy any system set up to produce fair fights. They chase off competition and obliterate fun. If there was one thing I could remove from PS2, that would be it.

    And PS2 would fall apart if I did. As you've said, Outfits are the social aspect of the game, and every MMO needs that. So whenever I start seeing rainbows on my killboard, I just suck it up until my KDR can't stand it anymore and then I redeploy to the next fight that they're going to crush. Eventually I find something that isn't part of an alert or in the path of some outfit ghost-cap steamroller, and I can enjoy a fight for a while.
  15. GoEErs

    Outfits do serve a purpose. It is up to the player to decide if joining an outfit is necessary to fulfill their own individual needs and desires as a player. Some players need them. Others could care less. I will err on the side of the individual players judgement to make those decisions that directly impact their gaming enjoyment. Whether the game is dying or not is way above my pay grade. I will play till the end and enjoy it while it lasts.....UNAFFILIATED of course.
    • Up x 2
  16. iller

    he's not big on other people's points of views. he's not big on logic come to think of it. dude was a lost cause from the start basically and always will be if I recall the majority of other good threads he dragged mud through
  17. Macho


    I'm completely with you. I agree 100%. See, those small fights are ruined not by outfits alone. They are ruined by the fact that such outfits can jump across maps and be wherever they want to be within a minute. If an outfit took the time and effort to establish a position, then I have no problem with the faceroll. I have a problem with such forces (including my outfit) being able to hop zones so easily. As easily as you hop from fight to fight, so can the zerg. Like I said in my post, if you earn your position, reap the rewards.
  18. Fortress

    On one hand, I wish I could teleport you back to Planetside 1's prime so you could play the game you described. On the other hand, I know for a fact how that knowledge makes the current state of Deathmatchside2 that much more laughable.

    Luckily, however, the devs are learning to a) ignore this ****fest of a community and b) obey the design principles that gave PS1 its staying power. In time, I think we might have something worth sticking around for.
    • Up x 2
  19. Jeslis


    <3



    I kinda wish they'd come out with a thing similar to WDS ---

    Capture xp = very small xp
    Defend xp = zero xp.
    Every 30 minutes you hold a territory you get X xp.
    This xp increases by some Y amount, every 30 minutes (each tick), up to 6 hours.

    Basically.. WDS, except now its xp/certs.

    Now that would almost eliminate ghost capping, create defenses much more frequently.
    Imagine if this was EVERY map on the server.. connected, xp wise. You might own 75% of indar, but if you only got 10% on esamir/amerish (at least, pre-continent locking), you're actually getting less xp then the other factions because of this..

    etc..etc...
  20. Inex

    Well, maybe not 100%. ;)

    if the game had a way of funneling more and more players into the path of your Mao offensive, until your progress stopped due to the pure mass of bodies - what would your platoon lead do?
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