On faction flavor and hard numbers [Graphs]

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Rune, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. Freyar

    It's made of all the megahurtz in the continent.. I can't help but tink it all the time.
  2. Mafia Puppet

    Thanks for the graphs. They were interesting.

    Anyone who thinks you adjust recoil per round instead of per second is functionally ******** or lying to themselves to make themselves feel better.

    Automatic guns in Planetside fire 8-13 bullets per second. The SAW fires 9.

    If you adjust recoil per bullet on the SAW, you adjust recoil every 110 milliseconds. The recorded limit of human reaction time is 109 milliseconds. The average CS:S player has a reaction time of 225 milliseconds. If you're telling me you constantly react to each round individually while burst firing, then words can't describe the stupid.

    So no, you react to recoil over time. Your hand moves constantly over time while you suppress the trigger. And NS does not have measurably greater recoil per second than other factions.

    If you want to know why NC is UP, it is this. http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...and-the-easy-way-to-fix-it.55979/#post-695786

    Modifications benefit ROF guns more than non-ROF guns. The unmodified guns can be shown to be balanced when you use correct statistics. But you know who doesn't know **** about math? Most people who post on internet forums.

  3. rumblepit

    your sir did the math that i dint want to bother with,and you make a valid point in favor of tr by doing so. osk sniper dose 750 max i think. by the time nc or tr has to compensate for anything the fight is over and the ttks are almost identical. you would kill with 5 shots and tr would kill with 7. nc has the faster ttk, not by much but you did the math. maybe your wrong.

    as for the recoil. look at the numbers, on almost every class of weapon nc are 1 point higher in recoil. tr lmg .4 , nc lmg .5, tr carbine .2 i think an nc carbine is .3. a reduction would give you the same recoil as tr giving the nc a advantage.

    you do more damage per shot, by your math you have the faster ttk,which is almost identical ,and you have 1 point more in recoil than tr . sounds balanced to me. or dam close to it. lol or am i wrong?
  4. SomiR

    My Carbine has a faster TTK than yours and reloads faster, and this is assuming all bullets hit under sustained full-auto fire. When you slow your rate of fire to burst, assuming all bullets hit, your TTK is even slower. But you know what? HURR DURR LERN 2 BURST NC SCRUB
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  5. Caracal

    All of this boils down to an issue with TTK. While I enjoy it this way, average TTK is a little too low for NC to be able to burst fire effectively at close ranges.
  6. Rec0n412

    Look at the charts for damage per magazine then.

    With the exception of LMG's, the TR generally have more potential damage per clip than both the VS and NC.

    This directly translates to bullets the TR can miss while still maintaining damage output that is either higher or equivalent to what the NC or VS can output. In the case of the NC and VS, they cannot afford to miss any shots if they want to maintain damage output in comparison to the TR.

    Also, because the TR fire faster(generally speaking) more of that damage is dealt faster than either the VS or NC could.

    I'll post some graphs of how the attributes like damage, recoil, and bloom would change as the user fired. Only issue I have is that I do not know how quickly any of those attributes return to normal, so I can't provide output over time for burst firing, etc...
  7. rumblepit

    in firing fast we have to compensate for compounding recoil and cof and bloom. dont forget the facts young man.
  8. Rec0n412

    Uh rumble, your(TR) average damage per magazine is over 5500, and the other two factions are both less than 4700(note this is only about assault rifles and carbines, not LMG's).

    How is that balanced? Damage does not matter if it is dealt slowly or at a faster rate because you still have the potential to do much more damage than either faction. That again translates to shots you can miss while still maintaining a damage output equal to or greater than either other empire.

    Also all of the empires have to deal with bloom, CoF, and recoil in differing amounts. So it isn't as if the TR are suffering this debilitating effect that no one else is. You just suffer it in ways that the other empires don't: the NC has more recoil, and the VS... uh... yeah... they suffer to :p

    The math I did even shows that in the initial fight an NC soldier will be at a disadvantage to a TR soldier irregardless of what the NC soldier does to compensate.

    Oddly enough, and as much as don't like to admit it, Xae is right that the balance shifts the longer the fight goes on. However, the biggest question is whether or not the initial fight being in favor of the TR has a disproportionate impact(screen shake due to being hit, etc...) on the outcome of the fight.
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  9. rumblepit

    ok you agree that the ttks are almost identical? but you crying because we carry more ammo? lol this is what your upset about??? ammo belt,you too can carry ammo like a tr, wait all factions can right??? lmmmmao
  10. Rec0n412

    I think you've missed my point.

    The problem is that the TR assault rifles and carbines can deal 1000 extra damage per clip when compared to the other factions.

    If that extra damage is supposed to be balanced by RNG elements like CoF, or bloom then what happens when the RNG is in your favor? You end up doing a disproportionate amount of damage when compared to the other factions.

    Which leads to the question of whether or not those RNG elements are leading to a situation where that disproportionate amount of damage is being dealt too often or what.
  11. rumblepit

    the longer you draw out this exact equation the greater the increase will be, but in a very small scale there is a apex, and there is a very fast ttk in the game.weapons are scaled around that.
  12. Corsix

    Can you make a graph showing how more accurate guns make it easier to aim for the head to do bonus damage? Cuz thats my thought on NC guns, aim for the head with your initial bursts and win all fights.
  13. Rec0n412

    At any rate, the devs have access to better data than we do; because that's where the ultimate decision on this has to come from.

    I haven't seen the numbers for headshots, and the consensus seems to be that different guns have different headshot multipliers.
  14. rumblepit

    there is alot of balance in there if you know how to see it, lots of little things, like the lmgs, rpm on the tr is 750, rpm on the nc6 is 500
    thats a 25% increase . but the nc6 dose 200 dmg max, and the t9 dose 143 max. thats about a 25% increase. just little things.
  15. Elbryan

    Nice post. Nice stats.

    I'd love to see a similar comparison between faction specific best/most used weapons on each class.

    Nobody uses the guns that are considered inferior so to measure the average of all weapons per class, while nice to see the stats, doesn't tell the whole truth.
  16. Sturmhardt

    Thanks for your work! TR and VS really need a nerf, then NC can stay the way they are.
  17. KrowAmes

  18. Gary

    Seems to pretty well balanced with small changes between all the factions. Nice post!

    Also a nice read showing that each faction has some really low TTK weapons. Although this is different and TTK is not as reliable stat since it implies you hit with every bullet and start shooting at the same time.

    Anyone complaining about imbalances clearly runs around using fully auto at any range. Thats gonan get you killed regardless of faction. Each faction comes with an alternative weapon that performs closer to the other factions "advantages" so find the one that suits your style and you are good to go.
  19. Goomba

    25% of 150 isn't 50. The guns are balanced better than a lot of people say but the NC guns really are that tiny bit behind. Most of the time an NC loses a fight and the guy has one bar of health it's probably because NC guns are that much worse. Generally speaking, at least.
  20. Veil

    This is pretty much the crux of the issue that most people don't seem to get. NC players have to control their burst whereas others have ezmode guns, and even if the player is skilled enough to do so, it still slows the TTK and that's usually a loss for the NC.

    Except for the fact that Higby actually said in a Q&A on Live Stream in response to what factions guns are the weakest, "NC, by a considerable amount". So maybe you should pay attention instead of assuming it's just whiny players.
    Until the devs refute that statement or say something else to the contrary, I take it as fact.