OMG Higby looks at the VS MAX stats and admits to them!

Discussion in 'MAX' started by treeHamster, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. Emerald11

    I'm a little bit surprised about the small KD rate indicated for all Max units. I made 30 % of my kills with my (pre ZOE) VS Max but have used it for 12 % of my playtime only. My estimated KD rate for the Max is between 5 and 10 (> 10 in Biolabs) - it polish my statistics.
    With ZOE (level 5) I have not noticed a increase of my KD rate, but it opens additional opptions.
    While playing my NC/ TR chars the last days I have seen 2 ADAD exploit using Maxes. I hope, it will be fixed with GU10. On the other side it was not so difficult to kill ZOE Maxes with AV weapons from mid distance, but very hard to kill them in close combat as infantry.
  2. Redhorrn

  3. MGP

    Oh this is sooo going into my signature!
    • Up x 1
  4. haldolium

    Still can't.

    Not empire related though.
  5. Xasapis

    The only reason VS were pulling good numbers pre zoe was because only the few and dedicated were pulling maxes. And even then, prior to the max adjutments a stock NC max would obliterate my 7000 certs max in a control point fight. The only viable tactic was to abandon the control point and try to wear the attacking max from as far as possible. Having little support from our faction that considered repairing maxes a waste of time didn't help either.

    In any case, I think they've overdone the NC max adjustments, as they seem to do with all adjustments. From one side of the pendulum, to the other side. Which is probably the reason you see so many unreasonable VS comments regarding zoe. When you know that the usual balance process is swing from slightly (or straight up) better to utterly useless, some people tend to get defensive.

    Anyway, the players are not idiots. If there is something unbalanced in the game, people will use it in droves. Point in case, liberators at launch, ESFs for some time, engineer turrets, phoenix at launch, anything shotgun even now etc and obviously zoe right now. It seems that he is too caught up in his developer bubble to realise that something that sounds cool and powerful from a developer's standpoint doesn't necessarily translates the same in the game and vice versa.

    His opinion is obviously important, since he controls the power flow in the game, but his views does not necessarily reflect he reality of the actual game.
    • Up x 2
  6. Kevorkian

    The more maxes fielded means higher survivability.... hahaha what? Any increased survivability was directly connected to the absurd speed of ZOE. Hence the nerf. But that's not what I was pointing out when talking about the dramatic increase in usage and kdr. I figured there would be an increase in VS maxes and scores, but not to that extreme.
  7. Shockwave44

    Doesn't trust data, believes everything that higby says...
    • Up x 1
  8. Shockwave44

    It must be true if he said it...
  9. illgot

    People ignorant about stats and trying to use it as a reason to justify their own means (haha get it).

    VS = range. They rarely die compared to TR and NC because the VS maxes stay at range and get repairs. The only thing ZOE did was accentuate the issue because people are now able to retreat faster for repairs.

    NC = CQC. NC shotguns are meant to be used up close, in situations like this the max can easily die being overwhelmed by enemy forces or step into traps.

    TR = Medium to Long range. TR has a lot of diversity but their lockdown causes them to become easy targets if caught off guard. Though they are great at CQC they are not forced into that category as much as the NC.
    • Up x 1
  10. Goretzu


    It's always been viable.
    • Up x 1
  11. R4ptor

    KDR of VS maxes cannot be compared to other factions if the VS maxes were indeed underutilized by VS.

    Say 100 people used VS maxes compared to 200 for NC. Comparing the KDR between the 2 is not apple to apple comparison (more than likely the average KDR of the 200 maxes will come out lower). I obviously don't know what the ratio is, but this is simple math. I am one of those VS that don't use them much and I don't have ZOE, so I can't say if it's OP or not, but I see people making a big deal out of the KDR based on comments w/o actual numbers.

    Just to clarify - my comment is regarding the KDR pre ZOE based on the comment from Higby that VS has always had the highest KDR.
    • Up x 1
  12. crusher1234

    Guys keep up the good work and lets whine a bit more after GU 10 looks like they will eventually nerf Zoe a bit more! It had only a minor nerf so keep posting after GU 10! Oh and don't listen to Vs Players they only wanna defend their certs machine!
  13. Yonasu


    There's a difference between viable and useful. The vs max has been used as an armor upgrade compared to HA with a mild damage increase and a heavy punishment to movement and utility. Almost exclusively for bio labs cause healing from turret-engies can be close if youre lucky and the stability of the fighting front. And that is with 5k+ invested in upgrades, kinetic armor and blueshifts++. Before zoe it was a deathtrap for noobs that slowed you down and made sure you wouldnt be able to follow the movement of battle; who the hell was afraid of a non-camo comet/quasar max? New players used max once or twice cause it seemed cool and then realised they couldnt just run in and get kills, so stopped using it altogether.

    But i guess that is true for most maxes except nc shottiemax, cause they can truly shine right from the get go in the right situation.

    Ohwell this discussion has gone on for too long, everything has already been said. It's nerfed now and we can go back to normal since now you will hit with your Decimators so noobs will once again get faceraped. I'm just glad to get something for the max, its still gonna be fun for experienced players.
  14. meucha

    Pre-ZOE or Post-ZOE doesn't make a difference, VS maxes always had the highest KDR anytime. 100 VS maxes vs. 200 NC maxes should statistically be equivalent, since KDR does not take population into account. It's a K/D average of all players in a given faction so the number of maxes pulled out doesn't interfere on the final score, it only makes the stat more reliable.
    Hopefully game designers can interpret statistics better than the average forumside troll.

    As Higby said "VS won't use a thing unless it's OP".
  15. illgot

    what shocks me is how poorly the devs seem to understand statistics. And these are the people we rely on to balance the game?
  16. WalrusJones

    Except..... If there were only good players in VS maxes, we wouldn't have seen a net increase in KDR from the fourth faction hoppin in their max suits.

    Kills per minute is separate from KDR.


    Of course a suicidal zerg muffin is going to kill faster, they also die faster!
    • Up x 1
  17. Xasapis

    What 4th faction? VS post zoe has remained practically unchanged in terms of population. What am I missing?
  18. WalrusJones

    Well, I suppose not fourth faction, but.....
    If the average joe can hop in a max, and average max KDR's improved at the same time...

    We have a serious issue.
    • Up x 1
  19. Sebastien

    These are the people who made the game and they are the people who can do what they want. We're just along for the ride.
    • Up x 1
  20. illgot

    they can do that they want, but without our support they will get no money to continue.
    • Up x 1