Trust me, even though i mainly play NC, i'll be right there with the VS if they over-nerf it, ******** and trying to get it to a useable state. I rather have a balanced game. The fights are alot more fun.
Some points people like to forget: - since ZoE the number of VS maxes doubled - with larger number of MAX players, the number of supports increased greatly Pre ZoE I had to wait for auto repair all the time, since nobody bothered to pull engineer, but nowadays it is not rare to have one or even two around all the time. This increases survivability Greatly, thus KDR rises.
It's not "devs" it's ONE dev. This would be the same dev that says that Vanu don't use something unless it's obviously OP, right? The dev that plays NC, is wearing an NC hat in his profile picture, posts things like "Haters gonna hate, NC gonna Liberate"? Is this the dev we're talking about?
All the conversation that was posted shows is that GU10 supposedly balanced ZoE, and that it is hopefully not OP anymore. People are blowing this out of proportion and taking other people's words out of context. There is no official "It is still OP" comment.
I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet but that data clearly shows there are more NC MAX users. I think a conservative 30191 dual hacksaw users is a bigger number than 17055? Go ahead and divide the total kills of both arms by the number of users and come back to me. (You'll realise that the NC MAX gets a 2.794 average kills per player while the VS MAX gets a 3.234 average which by the way is a huge gap considering both MAXes are supposed to be in line with each other and the average skill of both the NC and VS are supposed to be the same.)
What is this, with all the haters in this game..... each faction is different, you gotta hate on every other faction other than the faction you play? Kids just love to make up some reason that they're better...
thats my favorite part too. its obviously OP vs max use has more than doubled and it was allready the highest KDR max.... but look at the suggestions and all over the forums they want more... they are like the fat kid in the candy shop with a rich uncle buying whatever they want ... all they can say is MORE MORE MORE!!!
Now I think you're reading the data wrong because 1347864 kills/30345 players ~ 44.4 kills per player for one hand and 1206103 kills/30191 players ~ 39.9 kills per player for the other hand. Which is correct according to the central limit theorem under the assumption that each kill is registered to one weapon only. The average stats page tells the story, really (if you want to include stats over all time, that is). The average stats per hour page, however, seems to divide the total number of kills of all players by the total playtime of all players which does not give you the average kill/hour in general even with the central limit theorem.
Adding up both the left and right arm kills: 44,402+39,949=84,351 (Hacksaws) 30,088+25,077=55,165 (Cosmos VM3) Taking the lower number of users between both arms (Assuming each player is using the same weapon on both arms): 84,351/30,191=2.7939 (Hacksaws) 55,165/17,055=3.2345 (Cosmos VM3) The same again but using the higher number for the hell of it: 84,351/30,345=2.7797 (Hacksaws) 55,165/18,198=3.0313 (Cosmos VM3) Oh look, the Cosmos MAX gets a higher average than the dreaded Hacksaw MAX. (Data taken from: http://ps2-stats.com/weapon/infantrytype/ai_max/all/average)
You're adding the averages and dividing by the number of players. Dimensional analysis gives Kills/Players^2 Since there is no data on dual weapon usage on that site, we can't get the real value. We don't know how many players were using dual weapons nor do we know how many kills in total that the dual weapon setup gave. The best we can do is add the total number of kills of both guns divided by the minimum number of players of the two guns (pigeonhole principle). But we cant really tell how far from the real value the result is due to lack of data. Hacksaw: (1348752 + 1207015)/30220 kills/player ~ 84.6 kills/player Cosmos: (549078 + 428850)/17076 kills/player ~ 57.3 kills/player This however, can make for a reasonable approximation under the assumption that most of the users of Hacksaws and Cosmoses were using a dual setup.
Yup, VS max is still miles ahead the other two maxes, with or without ZOE. Both their AI an AV weapons are serviceable or excellent. Add in ZOE's mobility, and a skilled player just flat out dominates with a broken ability that really had no place ever being give to any max.
just incredible.. what i said during weeks as a vanu: "Yeas!!! finally we can fight at equality with those dps (TR) and one shoot (NC) MAX and they will never nerf our MAX because they never nerfed the fracture or the striker" i was wrong and i am crazy angry guys fuuucking whiners tryed fake technics with NC MAX shielded rushing in front and 2 others or grunts following, very vicious, a butchery.. and TR MAX is like ZOE without speed and armor debuff, anchor is a small bonus they dont need in fact.. but fuuuck what the fuuucking stats are they looking at ?!????!!! Oh godess Luperza hear my prayer and SAVE US !!!
Actually he is "The Dev" as he is "The One Dev to Rule Them All". He's right. It may not be you Deggy who that quote applies to specificly, however I have yet to be in a fight against VS where i did not the vast majority using shotguns and ZoE max's with pet engineers. Don't get me wrong, you use what they give you and all, but it's very cheap. If there is a glitch or craptastic bug in the game, it always seems that the majority of VS are using and abusing it. Even when the game was released and hacksaws where at their ultimate prime in bio labs, it was uncommon for any NC squad to have more then 2 of them. Some of these guy's, out of frustration want to throw this in the VS face. I'm not one of them. I will say he's right, because the majority of us don't want to fight you guys anymore. It's not fun. It's not fun to have some guy glitch into a wall and kill your team, and its not fun to face a zerg of ZoE max's at EVERY fight. Well alot of people pretend "THIS IS WAR!!!111", It's still just a game. The funny thing is, if you look at the posts, TR and NC are not complaining about eachother. It's just you guys.
So none of the TR are using the Striker, right? And there are no NC running around with Enforcers on their tanks? All factions whine, all factions use shotguns (aren't shotties kinda an NC thing anyway? You do have them for your tank, your plane, and your MAX), all factions hack, and all factions glitch. Bugs affect everyone equally, MAXes work better for every faction when there's an Engineer there, and a supported MAX is always an absolute nightmare if he plays to his strengths. Today during the Esamir AMP Alert on Mattherson both faction were fighting VS at the same time and ignoring each other. Other factions aren't avoiding us. And for the record, I despise fighting TR since the introduction and buff of the Striker. I infinitely prefer NC, and the NC I banter with in Yell chat prefer to fight VS over TR. The only obvious hackers I've seen ingame were: A TR Galaxy speedhacker. Amusing, but still. A couple NC aimbots firing at TI Alloys from the Crown with their NC14s. Now, I don't see my own faction's hacks because the people who notice hacking are those than get killed by it. But VS are not the only ones that use stuff like this. Also, Higby's hat. He is literally wearing his bias on his head.
Translation : I'm a member of the 4th empire and enjoy population imbalance. I switch sides because i want to always have the best stats due to my new overpowered faction! Translation "YEAS!!! We have something new and overpowered. New strategy! Everyone pull ZoE MAX'S!!!1111" Translation "I'm mad that we are no longer going to be able to win 90% of our alerts and steam roll everyone with our new MAX only strategy" Translation: "I wanted to avoid the filter, so i added a few U's to express my anger over someone balancing our MAX's because i really wanted my over powered crap to last forever, and its all your fault!" Translation: "Please don't look at stats"
You could be right. It could just be that MAX's have much more of an effect when out of balanced, simply due to the numbers that can spawn and them already being a force multiplier to begain with. Well i do see plenty of TR using strikers, and NC enforcers, they both are relativly on par with whats in the game now, for example sarons are basicly enforcers. Halbards are much better at AV, and we already have a NS lock-on launcher that is effective. (Though i will agree stykers damage potiential dwarfs the annhilators). We simply do not have anything that has increased max's movement speed and damage... for an unlimited toggable duration. Perhaps your right. If NC suddenly got tanks that could go through a mountain, or flying flashes, or an extra 250 health to thier light assults, perhaps all you would see is flying flashes, tanks coming from underground and a giant globe of light assults surrounding you. However i still run into primarly VS glitchers over TR, and i most certainly haven't seen enforcers in every fight.
There ARE a lot of VS MAXes running around, but that sense might be overblown. When my outfit runs a platoon, it's rare for us to have more than three MAXes in a full platoon at any given time, unless it's something special like a MAX crash. Vanu is badly overpopulated right now, at least on Mattherson, so even if the percentage of Vanu MAXes has stayed the same, the number has gone up drastically. Fourth-faction people don't help at all, especially when the OP thing is a fairly cheap cert instead of a 1000-cert gun. So instead of it being that Vanu players don't use something unless it's obviously OP, it's that fourth-faction folks don't use something unless it's obviously OP.
Perhaps thats the real enemy in all of this, Because your absolutely 100% right. On matherson the VS population more then doubled this patch. I do see alot of older VS outfits using tons of MAX's. I wonder if they are openly recuiting, most outfits ususally are. Either way, the population combined with the OPness of ZoE has made me log off more then once. Something needs to be done for both problems. Fixing the ZoE hopefully will restore the population balance, however there needs to be some way to stop people from switching sides on the same server so easily. Bonus XP isn't going to cut it when your routinely spawn camped and farmed.
