OMG Higby looks at the VS MAX stats and admits to them!

Discussion in 'MAX' started by treeHamster, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. Dvine

    First and foremost you're again dodging the argument and attack the person. Way to go! I guess my "insult throwing" that decredited my argument, is not far behind your high horse ad hominem technique crowned by reporting me at moderators when I have a different opinion compared to you. Way to go chief! The moral high ground is yours! /sarcasm

    VS max use doubled, because its now a valid AI/AV class too on top of AA!! Go figure! People will flock to use something new that they couldnt experience before! I know! Its shocking and unprecedented! With your argument as base we should call for nerfs on the Striker because everyone uses it and K/D has gone up since the rockets go around obstacles...

    Unless you or someone else can share some stats proving that before GU9 VS AI/AV maxes were used as much as NC/VS, you haven't a leg to stand on. (it works both ways you see)

    Happy reporting!
  2. Spookydodger

    While it could mean that, since battle rank is not purely a determinant of skill but more directly one of time invested, it only really indicates that more VS characters have had more time put into them than TR or NC characters. I say characters because you can be any faction at any time, so the players between those characters could be the same players. To really know if they are better on average, you would have to look at the score per hour / minute. I think it is entirely possible that the VS spend more time with their weapons, and that the better VS weapons, like the magrider, reward agile play better than their counterparts, which would denote higher skill. It would be somewhat akin to thinking of the difference between a knight and a ninja. One seems to infer higher levels of skill in order to evade damage rather than relying on armor to simply negate it (I know the armors on the tanks are the same, it's an analogy of what is the biggest difference between a knight and a ninja).

    This seems to be true of ESFs in general in these dangerous air times, and I agree with the assessment. I also think that when VS MAXes were pulled, it was because they were largely used for AA duty with bursters, and that has a pretty high KD ratio. Fewer bad players due to high barrier of success + largely used only for the most useful duty == high KD ratio.

    I'll agree here, the fact that speed was fully unlocked at Rank 1 was just stupid. It needed to be certed into by steps. This is really the only reason I didn't cert higher because I got everything I wanted from it in the first rank and figured it'd get the novelty sized nerf bat swung at it within a week or so. Therefore there was no point in dropping another 2k of certs just so I could use 1 less bullet when farming squishies.[/quote]
  3. IronWarrior

    You can have a different opinion then me and anyone else, but that doesn't mean you can throw insults around like you was a 13 year old, just out of interest, how old are you?

    VS max doubled because it was OP'ed, so everyone used it like everyone used Libs. Both got nerfed.

    I'm done with you, since you can't back up anything up with stats provided by the stats tracking sites or by Higby.
  4. S0LAR15

    Where's my striker equivalent, where's my fractures equivalent? That not what I meant though, it's obvious the lancer is far more niche than the striker or phoenix.

    I agree with this totally, AA was what I pulled my MAX for 95% of the time pre-"MAX weapon update" (the true point at which the VS MAX became competitive again).

    I also don't care if people don't agree with that, it is true. Pre that update in our outfit of 1000+ VS virtually no one pulled one outside of AA MAX, a real grinding biolab, or doing a for-the-lols MAX drop on the old crown. with 90% of those being AA. It was effective and necesary, whereas in a biolab you could get more done with a light assault flanking, with smoke, shotgun and 2 x C4.

    The degree to which people never even used it to fight infantry, I still see today, as players with decent amounts of time and experience ask me about which weapon is best for AI. I get asked this all the time (since people know I have unlocked all the MAX weapons, it's on our forum), and it amazes me when I ask "have you not even got the old cosmos?", and "no", comes the reply. VS players simply consigned it to the trash, even though the cosmos was good, the cosmos was only good since it had the large mags, and accuracy meant for the blueshift. However, it was not the Mercy, which had better accuracy, and the higher RoF meant for the Onslaughts, which could also be certed to have larger mags. So yes the old cosmos was good, but the old Mercy's were ridiculous. Another reason the VS MAX was bottom of the three, despite having a secret OP, it wasn't as strong as the TR's secret OP.
  5. Spookydodger

    I think everyone plays things that are OP. Back when AA was weak and aircraft were strong, there was a ton more air on all sides. Now there is much less. Very few people pick weapons they deem are weak unless they are looking for a challenge or wanting to really demean someone, or simply have no choice.

    If I could have picked up hacksaws for Biolab fights, I would have in a moment. If I could get a striker instead of my faction's AA launcher, I certainly would. I've never particularly thought those weapons were OP because there were ways around it to an extent, and things balance out in the end with new additions.

    That was one of the biggest reasons I didn't complain too much about the NC MAX shotguns. I knew that sooner or later the VS would get an ability that would help bring the shotguns in line just like how prowler/vanguard buffs brought the magrider in line by rising to its level (after the mag was brought back to something approximately its original level)
  6. HeadshotVictim

    please show me just one video with a hacksaw-Max getting 150 kills in 30 mins...

    just one and I will bow to ZOE MAXes as they are now... deal? :D

    PS: I will never understand why a MAX should be able to outrun an Adrenaline Pump LA... just sayin'
    • Up x 1
  7. CptFirelord

    Swagrider got nerfed to sub-par, and then got BUFFED to the level appropriate with other tanks. QQ on a different forum, like, the AT forum where they all cry about the same ********.
    • Up x 1
  8. Spookydodger

    I agree. Even today I largely use the Comets for AI duty even though they are AV. 2 hits kills most infantry but even one hit will drop a soldier's shields and take them to half health, scaring the hell out of them. A big ball of plasma is pretty intimidating, too. After they changed the Comet to 2 shot magazines, it really became a great choice. ZOE just enabled it to be more useful due to being able to popshot more effectively. And it was useful against MAXes. Mercies / Onslaughts / Hawksaws / Fractures are all very spam friendly. Even Ravens / Falcons are to a lesser degree. The VS AI MAX weapons are so inaccurate that it is a miracle that they hit anything beyond 20 meters. 40 meters was damn near impossible.
  9. notyourbuddy

    Vanu players simply can't handle the truth. Higby should just lie next time to avoid hurting their lil' feelings.
  10. Dvine

    Insults? I've tried to explain to you your obvious and utter misconcept, then I've tried it to explain it to you like I would explain it to my 6 year old nephew as you obviously cant grasp it from the original post. Then you somehow bacame the people's voice asking me for stats and hard facts, while in the same time you pulled an ad hominem in every answer of yours and reported me for violating the TOS.

    Now you throw out statements without even trying to defend them, and when someone argues with you you report them like you reported me to the mods? If anything you should be banned for this practice and the high horse "prove me wrong or you dont xist" imaginary high horse.

    Yet when there are multiple people confirm/agree with me in the above posts (have you reported them too?) you suddenly go and say "Im done with you"

    Way to go man Socrates has nothing on you!

    Edit: Oh and before I forget! You should read the patchnotes! ZOE is not nerfed at all all they adjusted is the strafing inertia so ADADAD spam doesnt mess up hitdetection. I guess you have to swallow this one bub!
  11. chrisbeebops

    When Magrider got nerfed, both the Prowler and Vanguard received sizable buffs at the same time. The Magrider nerfs were ridiculous... Magburner became pretty much worthless, and if you tried strafing left or right while moving forward, your Magrider would stop dead in its tracks. The fact that the Magrider has been buffed back to how it was originally and the Prowler has since been nerfed speaks volumes about how wrong you are.

    The Magrider remains as the worst tank in openfield long distance battles due to having the slowest projectile and the most drop.

    You can do that with a LA flying around a tower with a pump shotty. You could already do that with a MAX holding an indoors point with lots of support killing tons of enemies trickling in. You can do that with a tank or liberator farming infantry if you find the right spot. What's your point?
  12. The Loverator

    Not sure if trolling or just uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunbelievable stupid... ... ... : |
  13. Revanmug

    Actually, NC was the faction with more AP guns and the "2 players in" was largely equal accross all faction.

    VS was the least pulled tank and survive much longer. TR was by far the most pulled tank even though it was the weakest. That also destroy the argument that VS were "owning" because of more fielded MBT.

    I remember when VS on PSU keep complaining about needing those stats and when given, they just shift the discussion elsewhere.
  14. Spookydodger

    Where do you find these stats to try to make a case? My hypothesis is that it really isn't OP, but the number doubled because it sucked before, then it became new and shiny and the numbers skyrocketed, and people find it useful again in more situations than just AA.

    I also believe that most people fighting it think it is OP because:

    A) it is both offensive and defensive
    B) it is very obvious when used
    C) it has made the number of VS MAX users skyrocket, and most single-faction players might not have compared the number of friendly MAXes used versus the number of enemy MAXes used pre and post ZOE.

    Certainly there are some issues with the ZOE in terms of momentum fixes that were supposed to go in but didn't. I largely didn't strafe exclusively because it seemed more effective to go in eccentric circles so that your back and forth motion wasn't as predictable. Usually I found the ZOE to be much more effective because of 2 things

    1) It's blitzkrieg tactics. Many infantry panic, and running into the midst of enemies causes them to mow each other down.
    2) I often could close the distance on someone before they could pull out a rocket launcher in order to use the poor range yet great ROF of the VS AI weapons. Though most of the time, being up close with the weapons meant you missed a lot and I have had to MAX PUNCH a LOT because your turn speed is still low and the dual arm aiming + low damage boost meant that you couldn't always finish them off.

    All in all, this seems to me to be a LOT like when they buffed the Prowler's lockdown ability. It was hardly EVER used (it seemed) previously, and then after the patch, with the help of a bug, it was too good to be true and a big shock to people fighting suddenly a much more capable machine. Bug + Big Paradigm Shift = perception of over-powered. After they fixed the velocity bug with the Prowler Lockdown (I believe it was a velocity bug) then it was a legitimate item to use and the Prowler use of it jumped dramatically. Some would call it OP, I would call it "largely at parity"
  15. Spookydodger

    Which, the poster or Higby?
  16. treeHamster

    I do know that even now, getting people to field an AA MAX with anything less than 5 ESF's hoverpodding, is nearly impossible on Mattherson VS. Before ZOE, I would call for one and people would yell, "You do it if you want it done." even though I was already out there doing it and needed help (and all I was calling for was some AA help on X flight deck). I'd call for engy's to come and just drop an ammo pack, then see six run by without even a glance at me.

    So getting support, which is essential to playing a MAX, was nearly impossible to get on Mattherson VS (outside of squad play or playing with the top players). After ZOE came out and MAX's came out in droves, people started to actually go and support the MAX's. This probably meant that the KDR's of pre-ZOE MAX's were high because the operators were godly at it and always ran with support (in addition to running AA). Post ZOE the KDR is higher because ZOE is able to be solo'd but you can actually count on support now which simply increases survivability of the VS MAX as long as you don't do something incredibly stupid or get hit by a C4 brick.

    I can personally tell you I certed up extended mags and Ammo Storage Canisters on my burster loadout (Rank 3 currently) simply so I could have ammo to fight ESF's because I could never count on a second burster MAX to help me or an engy to resupply me when I ran low on ammo. So I certed out my MAX in a fashion so I could viably play AA by myself since nobody would ever bother to help.

    Another great example of this is Skyguard. In any decent sized zerg for NC and TR you'll find a Skyguard 95% of the time (probably higher) but the number of times you'll find a Skyguard in a VS zerg is less than 25% of the time. This is because it's a support role that isn't a cert farm every second of the fight so no VS will play it (when ironically there are ALWAYS plenty of Mossies to shoot at in a TR fight as well as providing ~2x the certs you get for fighting infantry due to the higher point value of ESF's and Lib's).
  17. S0LAR15

    I tested, it didn't ADAD warp, it just didn't, and I didn't see it once in my fellow ZOEs or when I fought them, it was a concession change, MAXs wth ZOE had momentum, as anyone who used it on a biolab landing pad could tell you, I saw many move to the edge only to fall the hell off because of MOMENTUM!

    There was not a single video of ZOE ADAD warping on live, not a single one, despite being so insanely numerou, and despite calls for evidence!! So whilst I have total respect for Higby, and that frank convo he had with some scum bag who posted it up. It was mainly to massage that persons QQ. It's pretty likely he knew even as he wrote it, that ZOE ADAD warping wasn't even a real thing. It was on PTS for a week or so, but not on live, concocting some excuse about "momentum changes not making it in", that'll work for TR/NC who never used a ZOE..sure.
  18. Revanmug

    None because he isn't touching any. You are probably too stupid to realise there are people (his dev team) working on several part of the project and some of their work may include game balancing on a certain section of the game. Higby is probably just going from a desk to another, pointing to a few subject before letting the dev do his work.

    Naaah, That would actually require a brain to figure that out right?
  19. Vixxing

    Wasent hard... not hard at all

    also notice how much faster/easier the HACKSAW drops all targets....
  20. S0LAR15

    You do know you can resupply at terminals, I do it all the time, and change to the nano repair 5 whilst I'm at it, too many useless noob Engis. Engi really is such a damn noob class at the moment, gotta throw down some mines and get on that AV turret........