Okay, Blueshifts are kinda absurd

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Grumblefern, Dec 10, 2014.

  1. Grumblefern

    I think I have enough experience on my VS now to safely stand by this.

    First, they don't lose bullet damage over range. You can tap fire dual 143 damage bullets out to pretty significant ranges.

    Second, 4x 143 damage bullets to the head is a kill, and you shoot two at once. So two bursts to the head will drop infantry. They have fewer rounds than TR's comparable option but it feels like my kill/mag potential is actually higher due to their superior accuracy and bullet damage.

    Third, the CoF is the smallest of all MAX weapons. Having such long hip-fire effective range lets you dance around without much accuracy loss, and VS MAX is probably smallest target of all MAXes as well. Not to mention hip-fire just always shaves off some TTK and is easier to track targets with.

    I can even play poorly or drunk and still have pretty nutty success with the VS MAX. I laugh at myself sometimes in my head when I am just playing terribly yet still easily mowing down infantry. I'm starting to feel like a jerk for playing it and it just feels downright silly overpowered in too many situations.

    I come from TR, and yes Pounders are situationally crazy too, and we all know NC's MAX is crazy within its effective range, but Blueshifts are crazy almost 100% of the time. They just don't have as many limitations of the TR/NC's best MAX weapons.

    I'm not saying TR/NC MAXes are necessarily balanced and VS's is alone in being overpowered, but I think my issue with Blueshifts is that I can pull them and just play like a super overpowered infantry unit rather than something more specialized.

    Mercies are still similar, granted, but with the lower bullet damage and larger CoF you can't tap/burst them for easy ranged kills as easily. They're a noticeable downgrade.

    TL: DR - Buff Comets
    • Up x 7
  2. Chewy102

    I read this and can only think on one thing to say.

    "At least you aren't stuck with shotguns."
    • Up x 9
  3. Grumblefern

    I would still take NC's MAX over all MAXes if I wanted to play organized outfit and do MAX crashes and all that stuff. And I think they're the most fun to play. Falcons and Ravens are also easily the best pair of AV weapons, although we'll see how badly Ravens get nerfed. Falcons you can snipe infantry and one shot anyone not using flak.

    However as a solo farmer Blueshifts are pure cheese, although I am getting kind of bored with them as people said I would.
    • Up x 3
  4. Murx

    Another try to create a "common sense" for MAXes nerfs. This time more subtle than the usual bashings.

    Best advice to avoid a "cheesy" weapon.. don´t use it. Use Quasar, Cosmos or Nebula (with 112 dmg after 50m).
    It is always a funny time to read about this OP and killstreak solo MAXes. My experience is that exactly this MAXes are the first units that are killed, destroyed, runned over, blasted away within 30-45 seconds entering a regular battle. :rolleyes:
    • Up x 1
  5. sindz

    Alle MAX hitboxes are the same.

    Blueshift is the best MAX AI weapon for range - this being said, all MAX weapons are beyond garbage for range. You never pull a MAX for long range AI capability. So its kinda pointless when people say "lol VS MAX is OP at range". Its the least garbage at range*

    You pull a MAX for its CQC capabilties. And here NC excell far beyond what TR and VS can. TR comes second and VS third. Ofc there is times when blueshift are better than shotgun and chaingun, but it certainly goes the other way around alot too.

    Also yes, comets is the weakest AV because of the velocity and magsize/constant reloading.

    EDIT: VS has the worst ES MAX ability in the game, bar none aswell.
    • Up x 5
  6. Atis

    Shotguns and pounders are kings in their niches, blueshift is better at long range, you wont overcheese scats at door holding. Most sensible max role is CQC tank, so long range is not so important as room clearing power or suppressive fire. Long-range AI max is unusual and stands out but not very practical. If you can land 4 out of 4 bullets in head of running guy at 50+ meters, then you'd kill more as sniper with 100 certs basr and 0 nanites cost.
    • Up x 1
  7. Chewy102

    The niche of a shotgun is high alpha at all costs. They have no sustained fire, no real room clearing ability, just raw alpha for the poor soul that happens to be closest to you. And god help you if you need to overkill a single player and get the long reload while taking fire.

    MAX shotguns get 20-24 shells total after spending 1K certs on extended mags and need AT LEAST 2-4 good hits per player to get a kill if you are lucky with RNG spreads, range, and have pin point aim on the mouse clicks. Instantly taking kills per dual mag to at best 10-12. Add any outside factors and you will need up to 6 shells or an entire dual mag to get just one kill depending on range, your movement, COF, pellet RNG, enemy movement, and your personal aim. This is only for infantry targets, go and find a MAX in that room and you have odds of not even being able to get 1 kill if you focus the MAX and he has KA armor added with the other factors. Shotguns have alpha but not enough total damage in both arms to kill a KA5 MAX with ANY of its weapons but Grinders within 10m.

    Shotguns can have massive problems reaching anything in this game. Just shooting across a room can make a shotgun go past its niche and range. This also makes another problem. NC MAXes have to fight for firing space. With shorter range you have less area to fire from within that range. So to cover a door you have to be on the door or you wont have good damage. Making you explosive bait or blocking the view and shots of your faction so that they can't cover that door till you get out of their way. And if go for slugs, they make it as close to 100% impossible to kill a MAX as you can get without reloading at least once from the lower damage alone. 20 slugs in a MAXes chest at point blank it just enough to kill, or 14 hits total in the head. Before KA armor even enters that frame. Then it goes to the mid 30s at KA5.

    All that and more gave up in order to have alpha damage. Meanwhile the HMGs of TR and VS MAXes can make use of their range to do much more with teamwork. Never mind being able to reliably fire on any target in any room you want for a kill with having ammo to spare doing that and being able to go into courtyards/field fights without a 2nd thought.

    Iv been arguing this topic since beta and my greatest hate in PS2. The fact that NC STILL are forced to have no options in their MAX. It is shotgun, shotgun, or using a ******* AV weapon to deal with infantry around a base. While TR and VS get HMGs that give options to range, CQC or general. Compare Blueshift to Nebula, Mercy to Onslaught, and then look at Mattock to Hacksaw. TR and VS get night and day versions of HMGs to fit a needed role, NC gets shotguns to the point of us having to use AV weapons to go outside for AI work.

    SOE, just add some damned NS weapons for MAXes already! Wonder why NC is doing **** in alerts so often, world ******* wide? This is a bit of a clue to that if you haven't seen it in the past 2 years.

    And if you guys want to see what Im talking about.
    What good is a MAX if it can't deal with MAXes?
    • Up x 8
  8. REZistance

    Greeeeaaat, I was saving certs for Blueshifts (only because I've certed out every other class and I'm left with a stock MAX; I never play MAX btw, 90% of the time I play Stalker) and now this.

    I'm just going to stop buying weapons because every single damned one of them is getting complained about and nerfed. I don't understand this community at all. Have you guys never played Insurgency or Red Orchestra Ostfront or any other game where the guns are lethal? What makes this community so adverse to weapons that kill?

    We are in full momentum going down this slippery nerfing slope.
    • Up x 2
  9. Goretzu

    It's the differences, not really the power, Blueshifts are a bit better than Mercys and the NC have nothing really comparable.
  10. Xasapis

    I wouldn't worry. The differences are below the threshold that warrant any changes.
  11. Pootisman

    Shh, dont tell ForumSide that Blueshift MAX is overpowered. I love to farm kills with it.

    • Up x 2
  12. MaxDamage

    As a regular MAX user...

    ..actually as a regular MAX user I get kind of lonely... I rarely see VS or NC MAXes anymore.

    Maybe it is just Miller.
    I never see them unless there is a complete newbie or 10+ of them in KOTV zerg.

    I don't feel qualified to gauge them as a threat as I just don't see them since 450 nanites increase and all the nerfs to deployability.

    Maybe I killed them alls?
    • Up x 1
  13. AlterEgo

    This man speaks the truth. However, get ready to be nerfed by the SOE squad!
  14. RykerStruvian

    Blueshifts are getting nerfed!? Oh snap!

  15. Xasapis

    Where did you read that?
  16. Paragon Exile

    I love watching NC players defend the Scatmax. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy on the inside.

    We'll nerf the blueshifts when the NC MAX gets its instagib shotguns removed and the TR get their MAX-murdering pounders reworked.
    • Up x 1
  17. Kalivix

    I love watching people acting like NC are defending our shotguns when we are constantly saying we don't want them and will happily trade them in for the VS or TR guns.

    I mean what do we gain by having shotguns? the ability to kill MAXs a bit faster up close (and don't try that insta kill infantry bull cos every AI MAX gun does that) what do we lose? the ability to shoot anything thats more than 10m away and the ability to shoot for more than a few seconds at once while VS/TR MAXs can charge into a room holding down shoot to clear it out. Do you have any idea how annyoying it is to charge into a room as a NC MAX? you shoot a few times, only killing people standing right next to you then reload and die while doing so, meanwhile I constantly see TR/VS MAXs charging in and blasting people across the length of the room.

    So ye... if you don't like our shotguns why don't you support the petition to have them removed and give us HMG instead? I have been bringing this up for AGES but the only response I get is "lol you mad shotguns OP".. which makes no sense and shows that VS and TR know our shotguns are awful as if they thought they were really OP they'd support it.
  18. Xasapis

    I fully support the NC MAX nerf you are proposing :)
    • Up x 1
  19. Ragnarox

  20. Paragon Exile

    lol, that would be a huge nerf. You don't want that.

    Grinders can kill an enemy MAX with kinetic armor in one reload, much faster than a Blueshift or Mercy combo.

    And NC MAXes do kill infantry instantly. The moment you pull the trigger, they die (at close range). It takes at most up to two bursts to kill someone at close range depending on even mediocre accuracy.

    You have slugs, which can be used beyond 25 metres more effectively than what we have :p

    And in "just" a few seconds you can kill several people because your skillsuit weapons kill them with one salvo. I know this, considering I've done it. Don't try and lie and tell me it's not possible, easy even.

    Nearly every room in this game is small enough that an NC MAX standing on one end would be effective against a target on the other side. This expands to every room when you use slugs.

    I do support that; the shotguns need to die.