Official Phoenix Launcher Thread

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by RadarX, Mar 22, 2013.

  1. Kaon1311

    The chance of 10 hitting you at the same time is very high due to the fact that its now the prefered weapon of the NC.
  2. LanceHavenbay

    Yeah, hold on. Let me sprint that extra 50 meters for you real quick, so I can get sniped by a Burster max as I try to guide my rocket.
  3. Kaon1311

    Welcome to the world of VS and TR rockets users (since we need LOS):p
  4. SolidSnake

    Aww you poor thing I feel so bad for you... not really. Don't even try to lump yourself with the VS, their launcher is terrible compared to the Striker. Oh and let's not mention that you can lock on to both aircraft and tanks while you're at it, you have it so rough! I know let's make it lock on to infantry as well, that way you can kill everything in the battlefield.
  5. Kaon1311

    The only comparison between VS and TR is the fact we need LOS, and the Pheonix doesnt, that was the point i was getting at. Yes VS have the worst launcher (atmo, wait till its used in groups).
    Im starting to believe that NC are not content with a launcher that can kill everything, being Vehicle, turret, infantry etc all while sitting behind cover safely.
    Yes we can lock on to aircraft and land vehicles, easily countered with smoke or flares, we need LOS and 5 of 6 rockets to hit to do the same damage as the generic lock on launcher that all factions have access to. We cant target maxes, engy turrets or infantry, but oh noes, we can kill esfs and tanks.
    The Striker has more downsides than the other 2 launchers, but still not enough for you?
  6. SolidSnake

    How exactly is the Striker worse than the Phoenix? the turrets thing is clearly a bug with the targeting so let's not assume it'll be like that forever. Why would you be able to lock on to Maxes? are you that bad that you need a computer to be able to hit a Max? I would gladly give up the ability to target infantry with the Phoenix if the range on it was the same as Striker AND it actually stood a chance of hitting aircraft.

    As it is, you need a pilot to hold really still for you to be able to land a hit. "but oh noes, we can kill esfs and tanks" isn't that the purpose of the launchers? isn't this why the Phoenix was nerfed shortly after it was released? because it was being used to kill infantry, which apparently is NOT its intended purpose? So:

    Phoenix vs Infantry: Need two hits to kill someone, if you're stupid enough to get hit twice by a Phoenix by standing around that long, you deserve to die.
    Phoenix vs ESF: The slightest movement on any direction will make you miss.
    Phoenix vs Tanks: This is the only area where the Phoenix performs well, nevermind the fact that a tank can kill you from way farther distance than the range of the Phoenix. So one area out of 3 and you still whine about it.

    Striker vs ESF: Lock on to aircraft without giving away your position. Do about 70% of HP damage to the ESF if you hit with all rockets, oh but just dive! Yeah you might make one missile miss by tricking it into hitting the ground because of the lead targeting but you guys fail to mention that at some point you have to break out of the dive (unless you expect all ESF pilots to crash into the ground to avoid a missile...) at which point the following rockets will continue to hit.

    Basically you have a 5 second window to go in and try to kill stuff as ESF pilot or you get shot down. So after using flares to buy you that 5 second window you have to stay away 35 seconds to let flares cooldown finish. All of this is assuming that it's only one Striker user in the area, and no AA Maxes. What if there are two Strikers? game over man, game over. With the Annihilator you only have to trick one rocket, you can't trick all 5 Striker rockets like all you biased TR players want to make everyone else believe. Oh and let's not mention that you can break the lock if you see the ESF diving and reacquire to lock once it levels and continue hitting it.

    Striker vs Tanks: You can move while targeting tanks, while Phoenix users have to stand still. You need LoS but you can lock on to tanks from further away than Phoenix can and did I mention you don't need to stand still? If the tank gets out of LoS you can stop mid-clip whereas with Annihilator you only had one shot.

    Striker vs Infantry: Can't use it against Infantry.

    Striker effective on 2/3 areas in the battlefield.
    Phoenix effective on 1/3 areas in the battlefield.

    Yet here you are trying to convince us that the Striker is worse. Not sure what your intended purpose is, do you want Striker to be able to hit infantry as well? (lawl) or do you want to nerf the Phoenix even more and make it so it's useless against tanks as well? As I said in my other post, just ask for its removal altogether. Remove Phoenix and allow Striker to lock on to infantry as well, yeah!
    • Up x 1
  7. lilleAllan

    Spent 1000 certs on the Phoenix.
    It's pretty fun to use but I wouldn't say it's very good. Range and speed is ****. Damage vs vehicles is... passable at best. Would love if it was able to kill non-flak armored/nanoweaved infiltrators. Or even better - if the rocket had a small afterburner so that one had a chance at killing not-completely-terrible ESF pilots.
  8. SolidSnake

    YES! this if you could hit your default sprint button to have a small burst of speed. This would increase the chances of hitting aircraft.
  9. Kaon1311

    I am not here saying the Pheonix or Stiker needs a buff/nerf, or one is better than the other, they both have ups and downs.

    A good pilot will let the user waste 2 seconds to get a lock, use flares, they then have have (i think) 6 seconds, lets call it 5 incase, until they are able to be locked on again, which takes another 2.5 seconds. So a good ESF pilot can fly into a striker zone and when timed right has about 10 seconds of free flight time in the area. Also if they fly low trees and building obscure the lock.

    Yes we can lock on to tanks, again 2.5 seconds to get the lock, yes we can move but again at least the tank driver can see us. Therefore he can shoot back, hide behind cover or even pop smoke, which gives about 6 (trying to remember, in work) seconds of being unable to be targeted.

    I dont want it to target infantry and maxes, or be dumbfired. I was pointing out the fact that the pheonix can kill infantry and maxes, the striker cant even fire at them.

    What I am trying to get across though is the Pheonix can be used from behind cover and can kill everything it hits. Being used from behind cover is a huge advantage for the launcher. This one weapon has changed a lot when attacking or defending against NC.

    The Pheonix launcher can kill -
    sundies
    infantry
    esfs
    mbts
    maxes
    turrets
    engy turrets

    albeit not very well against air, but it still can, so thats 8/8 for the pheonix
    all from the safety of behind cover,biggest downside 300m range, locked in camera mode when firing.

    The Striker can kill -
    sundes
    esfs
    mbts
    turrets (if they sort bug)

    better than pheonix against air, can be countered with flares / smoke, all rockets need to hit to do full damage.
    2.5 lockon time, need LOS to lock, can move while ads

    so thats 4/8

    And whats stopping NC using lock on launchers for air? Not like you dont get them too, but VS and TR dont get a camera guided rocket, like NC and TR dont get an (almost) instant hit launcher.

    Again, dont read this as omg nerf it, i am pointing out that both launchers are good, both have good and bad points.


    Anyway, give it a few weeks, when VS realy make the Lancer shine, then the forums will be on another subject :p
  10. lilleAllan

    The Phoenix can technically kill infantry, but really, good luck with that.
    • Up x 1
  11. Grubfist

    I think you forgot libs. Due to their low speed and large size, it's arguably the best vehicle to use the striker on.
  12. Kaon1311

    How can i forget them, best add Galaxies too :)
  13. Mxiter

    [IMG]

    Phoenix have still more kills and less XP = still too much infantry kills (almost the double than others ESRL).
    Yes ESRL are close and almost balanced.
    You're still more vulnerable while using the striker than the phoneix because you need LOS 100% of the use.
    Less you takes risks, less you get reward, it's a rule.

    Lancer users takes more risks and get more rewards. Phoenix users take less risks and get less reward. Nothing wrong for me.

    PS: Phoenix dealed more damages than the striker.
  14. Phazaar


    I can't believe how this absolute fallacy is STILL being posted.

    The Phoenix has MORE VEHICLE KILLS than the Striker. It ALSO has DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF INFANTRY KILLS. In what world does that lead to having a lower score? In a world where most of those vehicle kills are Flashes which the Striker is wholly not good at killing, but present 1 or 2 extra infantry kills and one vehicle kill. The only other possibly contributing factor is assist XP, which again, goes to show that the Phoenix users are hitting less enemy vehicles and contributing less AV DPS to their team.

    The other massively contributing factor to the lower rate of driver kills versus vehicle kills for the Striker is that by doing its damage over time (and by virtue of being a lock-on), the opponent is far more likely to bail from their vehicle, either in the hope of out-repairing the incoming-DPS, or simply denying the 'no skill' user a kill. This is evidenced in the fact that the Striker kills almost twice as many vehicles as it does drivers, whilst the Phoenix kills almost as many (though some of these, no doubt, will be infantry targets).

    I hope we can put this to bed now. It's very obvious. The Striker is more helpful to the team, and more lethal to enemy vehicles. The Phoenix is well balanced now, succeeding in its role versus vehicles, whilst still having the common-sense approach to a large warhead hitting an infantry target; a kill now requires a wounded target (which you cannot guarantee at firing distance), a team (which is clearly balanced), or two hits (requiring your opponent to fail to shoot down either projectile, remaining in the same location and failing to take even the most basic of evasive manoeuvres.). The Lancer is clearly an exceptional weapon; the simple problem is that the VS are failing to utilise it at all. When the players using it are scoring just as well (sometimes better) in most categories, it is clear that it cannot receive further buffs, less suddenly there is a huge VS uptake and the game is entirely dominated by completely uncounterable weapons.

    /Threads.
  15. Mxiter

    Infantries kills gives less XP.

    About the phoenix, 3 reasons to get slight lower score:

    -It's harder to coordonate and hit vehicles behind obstacles, so less assists and more solo kills.
    -Less bail because people ignore the thread (contrarely to lock on), so more kills.
    -Very few pleople are still using it as AI ( few, but it finish 2-3 hitten infantries wich happens at medium/long range infatries fights) and modify the average kills/score.

    I agree with the rest. ;)
  16. Phazaar

    They do give less XP, yes, but that would only amount to less overall XP -IF- the numbers of vehicle kills were not the same.

    The point is this, vehicles are worth (on average) 4-5 times what a person is. The Phoenix is killing MORE vehicles, so should have more xp per hour. Further still, it is killing TWICE AS MANY infantry/drivers, which should amount to an extra ~20% xp on an average like this (looking at the vehicles vs drivers/infantry stats). Instead, what we see is it actually scoring LESS. This means we can guarantee it is less useful to the team, either because the vehicle kills stat is being padded with no-value vehicles (Flashes), or because as you say, co-ordination is not truly possible so assist XP is GREATLY downplayed. Likely to be a combination of both.
  17. LanceHavenbay

    One ESF already used his flares = You just 75%ed him/killed him if he took any damage. Even if the target is on fire, there is a very small chance we will hit it if it it flying.

    You have 500m range, we have 300m I believe. Oh, and our travels slower and can be shotdown by flak spam. Using a Phoenix in groups is no more productive than driving an army of Flashes toward a line of tanks. They will get shot up.

    On Helios, there are people using Phoenixs because they are fun to use. But the kills that we earn for using them are few to none. The Striker however, pings a kill almost as often as infantry kills. :/
  18. Vargas78

    Its a very good weapon against ground vehicles and turrets. Not so much against aircraft though unless they are moving really slow or are static in the air. A you need to get some clear space to fire it from as it will otherwise easily detonate on a piece of scenary or a soldier that is in front of you even if he wasnt in its direct trajectory.
  19. PlanetClown

    Earlier I have said that the statistics will tell. Here is the link that shows the ESRL statistics (same as the one Mxiter posted)

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AmUavphHXmIxdFhHUzJfN1VYalRnWS0xMnBUdTJpM1E&gid=23

    Look at the ridiculous Phoenix Avg. Kills/hour versus Avg. Veh. Kills/hour. From TR's and VS' numbers, it's clear that when a vehicle is killed, it will not always result in a kill of the driver/passengers. This is understandable because most of the parked Sunndie are empty and tank drivers is used to bail out before the last hit.

    However, before the nerf, Phoenix is getting 2.4 kills/vehicle kills while the other two factions are getting 0.57-0.65 kills/vehicle kill. Even after the nerf, Phoenix is still enjoying 0.93 kills/vehicle kill vesus the other two's 0.63 and 0.60. This shows that NC still uses Phoenix to kill Infantry but less frequently than before the nerfing.

    Like what I said earlier, Phoenix needs to be nerfed more for anti-infantry.

    BTW, there were arguments earlier about the NC Phoenix has the lower scores than the other factions thus the statistics was bogus. Actually, this is a pure mis-interpretation of the statistics.

    First, the scores are not XPs nor kills. It's the accumulated from all the activities a player does.

    Second, there is no Phoenix/Striker/Lancer scores in PS2 Census API. The scores are associated with the player. So the "Avg scores/hour" in the table are actually "the Avg. scores/hour of the players who had used ESRL for more than XX time", not "Avg. scores/hour of the ESRL". I hope you guys can understand the big difference.

    Third, however, you can query the timestamp and weapon used for each kill using the Census API. So the "Avg kills/hour" and "Avg. Veh. kills/hour" are really limited to ESRLs.

    So it's the fault of the maker of the table that mixed two different data together. Of course it causes the confusions.

    Now, once we understand the difference, how do we interpret the lower "Avg. scores/hour" of NC players?

    Maybe it is not easy to swallow for NC, but here it goes:

    NC Phoenix is a weapon that could be fired behind the cover. Its users probably like the play style of hiding away from exposing themselves to potential dangers. And of course, in the game of PS2, if you do not play aggressively, you are not going to get high scores.

    Proof? Look at the avg. deaths/hour. These NC players are also lower than the others.
  20. PlanetClown

    [IMG]

    Avg. Kills/hr v.s. Avg. veh. kills/hr after nerfing
    NC Phoenix: 11.28/12.11 = 0.93
    TR Striker: 6.51/10.19 = 0.64
    VS Lancer: 6.83/11.36 = 0.60

    Even with the nerf, NC Phoenix still kills 50% more infantry than the other two factions. This is statistically significant and could not be explained by "lock on" warning or not. A driver bails out of the vehicle mostly because of the health of the vehicle, not whether being locked on or not -- because there are much much more threats than the "lock on" RLs, e.g., gun turrets, ESFs, Lib, other tanks/Lightnings, AV turrets, unguided rockets, ...

    With these numbers,, we can see that these NC Phoenix users are getting 4 more infantry kills/hr than other factions even after the nerf. Is that a lot? Well, look at other numbers. In the faction performance tab, the avg. kills/hr for all players are:

    NC - 10.22
    TR - 10.89
    VS - 10.15

    Compare to the ESRL tab, the avg. kills/hr using ESRL:

    NC - 11.28
    TR - 6.51
    VS - 6.83

    See the gap? That's why Phoenix needs another nerf for anti-infantry.
    • Up x 3