Official Phoenix Launcher Thread

Because all the MAX units were designed to do the most damage in the area of ​​10m. Where NC MAX has 4th times MOAR DPS. Thus, if we speak of damage dealt to infantry then VS\TR MAXes are completely balanced, while the NC MAX does not even give time to react.

And a last one about Prowlers. Why we (TR and VS) never see any AP Vanguards? NC Religion does not allow that?

Clearly you've never actually used a shotgun in the game. At ranges where the shotguns kill in one hit, you pretty much need to aim just as accurately as you do with a carbine to get the OHK. At ranges where your aim can be a little off and you can still score a hit, you won't get a one hit kill.

How can you say that MORE weapon types means LESS weapon diversity?

Making the decision to run with a shotgun is making a decision to give up almost all damage capabilities above 25 m so you can reduce your TTK in short range by a whole 0.4 of a second. If you have to fire a third shot with a shotgun, chances are you're dead already.

Don't know what server you play on, but on Briggs, AP Vanguards are almost all I see. Generally the only HEAT Vanguards I see are lower ranked players, or when there's tonnes of enemy infantry around. HE vanguards are practically never seen (you quickly spot the AP vanguards when they don't even bother to shoot at infantry).

Go look in one of the many shotgun threads for the facts and figures. Here's a clue. 9/10 infantry fights take place within shotgun gibbing range. (slugs as required) Shotguns have 200% more damage per second then SMG's and both are classed as short range weapons while shottys have the other advantage of 1 shot kills. They are far beyond the side grade notion that was setup in beta. Every other gun in the game at their classified range is more or less the same damage per second but with slight differences. Players use to debate which weapons to bring into combat. Now its all shotguns. It's dull, boring and SOE may as well delete most of the other short and mid range weapons in the game at this point as they are a waste of certs.

No, not all. NC MAX is designed to be useless at distances more that 10 meters.

1. It is not true, we roll AP Vanguards.
2. Because we are so skilled that you are dead before you can see us.
3. Because Vanguards are not very maneuverable, so people don't invest too much certs in upgrading them.

Go watch one of the many scat max videos. Their instant gib range extends to 40m with slugs.

CLEARLY yet again, you haven't used an NC MAX with slugs and therefore have no idea what you're talking about. The deviation on slugs at 40 m means that even with absolute perfect aim you're only ever going to get an 'instagib' about 50% of the time (a very generous estimate). You're counting on 2 slugs, both hitting the head, when at that range, you can miss a perfectly aimed shot on a stationary target whilst sitting still.

Please stop commenting on something you know nothing about, and using a video full of cherry picked footage as an example.

Best case scenario, at 40 m, is that both slugs hit the head and you get an instant kill. WORST case scenario is that both slugs miss completely. This is with both shots aimed exactly the same.

If they can see the fighter or gunship in question, then that's not really in cover anymore. I believe the person's point about cover is that a phoenix can fire over the edge of cover and direct the missile to its target, or sit inside a spawn room and be completely safe. No other launcher has that capability to hit a target that is completely invisible to the firer's initial position.

- Reduce AI damage to the same as a fully-charged Lancer shot deals to them.
- Increase max control range
- Once max control range is reached, disable the camera, enter dumb-fire state (straight flight + gravity)
- Add a possible afterburner to speed up the projectile when you got the target zero'd in.

No need for ESF OHK, no need for fancy overlays or other silly tweaks, IMO.

Good idea but not about the turning radius wich is fine and will be harder to control at higner speed.
No HE splash but remote-control or proximity flak explosion wich don't deal damages against vehicles and few against infantry.
Direct hits still do damages to vehicles. 50% reduction against infantry (like every ESRL)

More range would give to the phoenix more turn radius, so much more opportunities and more manoeuvrability.
It isn't supposed to hit stuff just behind rock, but sopposed to keep the operator under cover ang giving the missle more accuracy.

I think most would take issue with the two primary differences between these: resource cost (not really a big deal for most) and personal risk (a much bigger deal to most). If people could park a scythe or prowler in a spawn room and gib people at The Crown all day long, the rage would be palpable.

Again, a sniper has to at least expose himself to his target, a phoenix user does not. Also a phoenix one-hit kills with a body shot, while the best sniper rifles require a head shot. If you are referring to a "team" as in 2 or more snipers, then now you are equating a single HA to 2 Infils, which of course doesn't really work. If you are considering the HA as needing an Engineer to resupply him, then it's closer but still not really equivalent because the lack of LOS requirements means that the HA can park next to any obscured ammo source and go to town, something usually implausible with snipers.

Except it doesn't improve its capabilities against armor and aircraft, its intended targets, and makes it have to focus on infantry. They are fine ideas, but don't really take into account its designed use.

Lets go back on topic, gentlemans!

there are enough shotguns and maxes threads. all i say, all big boys like shotguns, and choose right weapon for right circumstances. only sissies dont play, because they lose . I have my piston and i still win fight against new pumpaction. nothing wrong about the guns. something wrong with people. outside of buildings have shotguns 0 meaning. therefore, use your heads - right weapon for right environment /rant off


this video is good example.. only that the man had 1 hit.. i never accomplished that on AirVehcle. buffing the air damage brings nothing.

@rabitz classic signature you have there!

This kind of rhetoric doesn't really contribute anything, c'mon. You know that the biggest qualms are with a guided projectile that doesn't require the firer to put themselves at personal risk. Regardless of their other strengths and weaknesses, neigher the striker nor lancer can fire on targets that cannot be seen from the firer's position.

And as for vehicle versus infantry killing power, as much as I agree that the harsh reality is that things that punch steel can mince meat, it's a non-starter as an argument basis. PVP Games are designed around counter-options. I didn't like that the Lancer 1/2 the life of an engineer at full charge, but I understand why they did it, because a man-portable Saron HRB would make infiltrators lose half of their niche and piss people off at getting laser sniped every time they popped their head up.

there is very big personal risk, since i use phoenix, i was killed multiple more time by snipers and other objects in flanks then before. dont know how others, but this is what happened to me, and i blame it on phoenix. so, imo, there is VERY big personal risk. + i cant shot from spawn through shield, it explode direct on shield. maybe someone here is exploiting or something ?

This launcher is a very sticky problem because if they make the changes that everyone is asking for it will be the end-all do-all rocket launcher in the game. Able to destroy ANY target anywhere. I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but if you give one faction that capability you have to give to the other two as well. Which of course defeats the purpose of the ESRL concept.

Be very careful here Dev's if you give only one faction that capability you'll end up with everyone switching to that faction and then the game is for all intents and purposes...over.

Each time he fired, I kept feeling my body pulling in a direction to lead the target more right from the start, and I haven't even used the phoenix outside of VR! I don't know if it gets easier if you lead your target enough right from the start, but it certainly seems like this was a case of a guy that needed to lead a whole lot more.

I was thinking if killing outside of LOS became an issue for countering versus infantry, then perhaps make the phoenix become dumbfire once LOS with the launcher is lost (call it that the control signal is optical or a wire or something). Also have the firer show up on the minimap.

I think less people would have a problem with Phoenix infantry kills if you gave snipers more stationary targets to pop.

What doesn't make sense, is that a 150mm HE round weighing roughly 40kg designed to destroy infantry taking 2 shots to kill infantry if it lands 1m from them.

Like I said, logic plays no role in this game.

it is very easy with Aircraft to change XYZ coordinates, field of view on phoenix is not enough to be aware of where the FlyingSausage is. i know what you mean, to lead like with bursterer max, but at least for me it dont worked [i tryed lead more and less and i just gave up, no hits - no satisfaction = no use of phoenix for air

it's a big blue ball 'O death that renders like a vehicle, so you can see it even if the guy launching the missile is out of render range, and you can shoot it out of the air, or, a tactic I've seen many do, jump... the problem is that, with that work done to make sure everyone can always see the missile, then then limited the missile's travel distance to, what I believe is 100m under infantry render range anyways, instead of allowing it to dumb-fire past that point

I think my comparison to the engi turret is a great one, in either case it's best used by flanking your opponent, and hitting them from where they wouldn't expect, and in both cases, you'll get taken out by a sniper, or anyone for that matter, that saw where your missile came from, and routed you, that's why you're routing them, and in both cases, the best place to do that from is above.