Official Phoenix Launcher Thread

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by RadarX, Mar 22, 2013.

  1. Mxiter

    Did you compared timer and ressources cost stuffs to a 100% free 5 sec cooldown infantry??
    Ingeneers with AI turret can be shot in direct fire. Smart phoenix user can't, that's why it needs drawbacks. At least 50% AI damage reduction is one of them. It's so simple to hit infantries with that...
  2. DestructShawn

    No surprise to hear all the factions weighing in about how much they hate the new NC Rocket Launcher, the Phoenix. I play all three factions and I can tell you before this launcher there was very little unique and fun to play about the NC. The Reaver is impossible to fly and the breaker rockets do no damage to infantry compared to the crazy OP rockets on the Scythe and Mosquito. The Vanguard is broken and shakes like a palsy victim. With recoil and cone of fire issues, none of the guns are as good as any of the other factions at range. There was finally a unique fun weapon that made me want to play NC and now the whiners that are used to running their own OP'd weapons are whining. No surprise here. If they nerf this against infantry, it will be the weakest rocket in the game, it's really only good for infantry. I heard the same whining about the engineer A/V turret and then snipers figured out how to counter it and now it's no big deal. It does less damage than a crow to vehicles and it is impossible to hit any air with it with the range and speed issues and I understand the range is a technical limitation. If you want to talk about something OP against infantry, how about the Prowler with it's double-shot artillery barrage of spawns or the Scythe that flys like you could in descent and kills infantry with a couple of rocket shots?

    As infantry in any other faction, I think it is no harder to avoid than any sniper team.

    Instead I would propose a couple of options to help with the issues:

    1. Slow down the rocket, makes it funner for NC and easier to shoot down for the other factions.
    2. Render the better so the target has a chance to see it and shoot it down.
    3. Emit a sound to warn the target of approaching rocket, again, giving them a chance to shoot it down.

    This would result in a unique weapon for the faction, and give the whiners some ways to counter it (besides just using cover or flanking, as the smart ones do now). But primarily, I believe the devs should give this some time before nerfing to see if the initial tactics don't change as the NC realize that camping back and shooting the Phoenix looses objectives and makes them overall loose territory.
    • Up x 1
  3. Major

    My thoughts are, control works for me, I have my flight at 80 sensitivity. Damage is fine, and yes even against infantry, it's a rocket, get some bursters out, shoot them down, send a squad to take out the phoenix snipers, use a counter measure against it instead of crying for the nerf bat.

    Speed is fine, I would like to see a bit more range, 50 meters would be fair, I would like 100, but that could be too much imo.

    A sound could be ok, but really when half my squad was phoenix sniping the other day, finally some snipers got smart and started to kill us, just get a sniper squad to flank the phoenix squad, use tactics in a tactics based game.

    Use counter measures, either get in really close with armour, or snipe, it's really that easy to defeat a phoenix squad............
  4. Mxiter

    Totally wrong: people were shooting infatry with it because it gives...more XP!!!
    Why spending 5 rockets on a tank wich will be repaired??
    It's better to hit 5 guys, or 4 guys + the tank that teammates put in fire..... MOAR XP for the NC after the biolab NC max farm and the mag and prowler nerf (wich was necessery):D

    Until people are just playin' to get free kills by OP stuffs expoit, the devs will have some trouble to balance the game -_-*
  5. Alystan

    Feedback to SoE about the phoenix:
    * this weapon a a game spoiler. This is fun for the user but as nothing can be done to counter it of the defending side, it is simply frustrating.
    Would you make a weapon which has a 1 in 10 chance of killing a random opponent by heart attack on the map when you fire it? I would call it "Wrath of the Gods". No. This is where phoenix stand on the defending side.

    * make it not 1 shot infantry
    * make it leave a fat heavy trail behind so the source can be pinpointed

    I would like to point that in the current situation, this is severely removing enjoyment for me playing the game. So seeing a patch soon to fix it is very important.
  6. Terrarion

    keep striker the way it is. keep phoenix the way it is. buff lancer so 3 charges ohk infantry, also decrease charging time, increase damage to air. then everyone will be happy. This coming from phoenix user.
  7. Mxiter

    Need also improvement against air after its AI capacity nerf.
  8. PGxSazBot

    Turning is fine. dumb fire continuation after 300 m limit would be nice
    • Up x 1
  9. Phazaar

    I'd 100% support that.

    Please understand, I -do not- want the launcher to be an AI weapon. I agree it's unintended. I'm just VERY quick to assume that as SOE have already hit their sales quota, the AI capacity will be removed and the weapon will be left with nothing, as currently they are not talking about implementing any kind of -real- buff to its AV/AA ability. If they put real manoeuvrability on the cards, and perhaps use a control radius instead of distance of flight (to maximise the 300m we get), it'd be a great launcher, on par with the others for sure.
  10. Phazaar

    I'd like the launcher to be as useful as the other launchers. Currently it is not. Simple.

    You've clearly not used it yourself, else you'd know that you can't control the missile up to 100m, so you're still slowed, and whats more, forced stationary through the latency that creating the projectile incurs. Even as a dumbfire, its projectile speed is incredibly low, so whilst you can up its DPS by ejected from the TV view, you're now fully accepting that you'd be better off using the Shrike/Decimator.
  11. Mechanought

    To reduce the effectiveness of Phoenix against infantry, reduce the velocity of the rocket, and make the rocket destructible. The maneuverability of the rocket should be reduced in-line with the velocity to keep it's agility around the same level.

    Obviously the projectile would need to be pretty small in order to make it difficult to shoot down.

    This results in a large nerf to the rockets TTK on armored targets, so I would also increase damage against armor, or simply increase it's damage to rear armor.

    Another Idea to make up for the slower velocity is to add a modified version of an after-burner to the rocket. Engaging the Afterburner would cause the phoenix to lose the ability to maneuver. It would also consume fuel much more quickly. This would allow the phoenix to still be useful against static Vehicles, but maintain reduced effectiveness on infantry.

    On the flip side:
    Greatly increasing the velocity of the Phoenix would make it much more difficult to control and thus would reduce effectiveness against infantry. This would reduce TTK on vehicles though and would need to be balanced accordingly.
  12. Phazaar

    You're a fool if you didn't read the rest of that thread.

    The DPS at 100m is completely missleading; up to 100m you have virtually no control of the projectile. Thus, the only worthwhile comparison is with dumbfires, which out-DPS the Phoenix quite considerably. Hence, yes it may be useful, but you're better off using the dumbfires, which will also hit much faster, and not **** your movement.

    At 300m, a Striker kills a Lightning in almost half the time a Phoenix does. It also hits moving Lightnings, from behind cover. The Phoenix doesn't. A Striker kills a Sunderer 15-20 seconds faster than a Phoenix at 300m range. It also hits moving Sundys, from behind cover. The Phoenix doesn't. At 301m-500m, the Striker has infinitely higher DPS than the Phoenix, as does the Lancer. At 501+m, the Lancer has infinitely higher DPS than both the Striker and the Phoenix. Both the Striker and the Lancer are infinitely easier to hit vehicles with in real situations.
    • Up x 1
  13. Revel

    Ya, make the Lancer and Phoenix 1 hit kill infantry while leaving the striker the way it is, which is UNABLE TO HIT INFANTRY. What an utter joke post.

    I'm pissed but not surprised SOE. Do you remember when you had to tone down the Phoenix and Lancer in Planetside 1 dramatically because people used them as long range infantry sniping weapons instead of their intended purpose? Of course you don't, this is SOE, where making the same mistake over and over is the norm.
    • Up x 1
  14. Mxiter

    • 252DPS@0m 5.5 sec exposed for 2500 damages.
    • 194DPS@300m 8.5 sec exposed for 2500 damages.
    • 166DPS@500m 15 sec exposed for 2500 damages (if the target don't move out he lock-on range)
    • 230DPS with 4 sec/charge 1.5 sec exposed/1600damages
    • 200DPS with 5 sec/charge 1.5 sec exposed/1600damages
    • Half damages against infatries
    (I don't know the real charge time, but i tried it and it must be close to that)

    • 298DPS in dumbfire mode. 1.5 sec exposed/1700damages
    • 220DPS after 2 sec camera mode. 0 sec exposed /1700 damages
    • 175DPS after 4 sec camera mode. 0 sec exposed /1700 damages
    -Phoenix against sunderer:
    • 350DPS in dumbfire mode.1.5 sec exposed/2000damages
    • 260DPS after 2 sec camera mode. 0 sec exposed/2000damages
    • 206DPS after 4 sec camera mode. 0 sec exposed/2000damages
    Striker needs to be exposed, Lancer can charge from cover but require a good coordination to fire its ista-action no bullet drop rocket, Phoenix can curve its trajectory to hit from cover.
    DPS are balanced compared to the possibilities.
    I'm pretty against slowing the camera-mode speed: this would reduce the DPS and make an easy control stuff like this:

    (sorry to show it again)

    Phoenix missiles shouldn't ever get a total turn radius >120°, even at 300m.
    If the turn radius during the control time (150 to 300m? i'm not 100% sure) should NEVER turn more than 0.8°/m

    Making the missile slower would also reduce a lot the DPS.7

    I really think that the lancer could be a good niche for hunting undercover sunderers, but also to hit moving vehicles.

    TOTALLY agree with that.
    More simple, more DPS at range and also more effective against aircrafts! This is a good trade.

    -dumbfire mode past 300m
    =>50m/s rocket and 1m/sec bullet drop (like dumbfire with the Crow)

    -Also 50%% damages reduction against infantries. Skilled people will have a bit more problem to farm them, but they will to protect them K/D and lose some time-XP/min by doing something else :cool:
  15. Mxiter

    See my post just below
    For information:
    -Stock dumb-fire launcher: 326DPS
  16. Major

    1) It's an explosive projectile..

    2) It is meant to KILL TANKS

    3) People are squishier than TANKS

    4) SOE listens to the whiners too much and people leave their games for other games.

    5) Leave it the way it is, it is fine, snipers kill me all the time firing a phoenix, there are 2 sides here, one saying it blows, and the other saying it's OP, so the obvious solution is it's in the middle, and that means it's fine....
  17. Messaiga

    Alright as I said before, if they want to nerf Phoenix against infantry let them, just give us stuff to compensate such as the following:
    • A throttle so that depending on if you are hitting Tanks or Aircraft, you can hit them more accurately. I would say 50 meters per second up to 150 meters per second
    • Increase direct hit damage to 2000 from 1700 and reduce aircraft resistance to the launcher to the same way dumbfire launchers are. These allow the Phoenix to do the following: 1HKO against ESF, 2HKO against Liberator, Maximum 6HKO against MBT, Maximum 4HKO against Lightning, 6HKO against Galaxy.
    • An Afterburner, so that they may catch up to full speed ESF's (without afterburning of course) and Liberators. Afterburner on rocket lasts for 2 seconds and brings it up to 250 meters per second in half a second, meaning you can maintain full speed for 1.5 seconds.
    • Finally, a range increase and fuel gauge: Range increase from 300 meters to 500 meters if you can get it to do this without going to a loading screen after the missile explodes.
    These changes would increase overall effectiveness against all vehicles while if you nerf the infantry damage it will no longer be able to wreak havoc among them all. A damage increase to 2000 damage instead of 1700 damage would give it that heavy payload it suggests in the description. These changes turn it into a monster against armor and air if you can control it, which makes the weapon highly skill based. You can adjust the speed of the missile with W and S while the Afterburner is activated with Shift. I REALLY want to see this implemented as I feel it would make the weapon much more interesting and add a whole new level to it. Although it may seem like it could be OP this makes it much more anti vehicle based and brings it up to speed for Anti Air like the Striker while requiring much more attention to the range you have traveled and the velocity you are at while controlling the rocket. I would be open to ways that change this but not in a way that it completely ruins the purpose.
    • Up x 1
  18. Major

    I had people shooting my rockets down all night, a sniper was even sniping them from the sky, seriously leave it be, I really hate it when things in games get constantly tweaked and changed, buffed and nerfed because of the sway of a few voices, fine the way it is...................
  19. Mxiter

    whould you agree if there were a dumbfire in the stiker and if the lancer werer dealing 2X more damages to infrantry than it current state?
    That is corresponding to2 Striker hit (AOE or not) 3with nanowheare/flak and 3 lancers semi-auto hits or 1 charged instagib)

    Deal my dear infantry farmer?

    /sarcasm on
    Or no:
    let's make all weapons instakill everything:
    1 bullet: you're dead
    1 rocket, everything dies/are destroyed.

    This isn't Call of side2 or battleside 2: maybe the sorldiers of the future get protection agaist the anti-tanks rockets of the future :D or those rockets are specific AP weaponry that arn't lethal to infantries.

    /sarcasm off
  20. Major

    Ok fine, striker no longer can fire all it's rockets at once because it kills my ESF too fast and it makes me sad.

    And lancer can no longer charge behind cover, and fire at the speed of light, shoots too fast and I died from it.

    Balancing issues SOLVED......

    BTW, it's not hard to kill a phoenix squad, happened all night to me, use tactics and stop spending all your time crying for nerfs cause something killed you.

    Again, if a rocket can kill a tank, as in pierce it's armour, then why can it not kill a steak? o_O

    And I could care less if a dumb fire more of one rocket at a time was on either of the other ESR's, not like they can't switch to one in a second anyways, I switched between the deci and phoenix all night, why? because the phoenix is useless at 100 meters or less, in all honesty it's only good 100 - 300 meters, tanked get within 100 meters, they rip you to pieces.