NS Baron Shotgun: Everyone gets a Jackhammer!

So, I was told the NC was the "shotgun faction." we have shotguns on cars, on tanks and yes, even on our friggin' planes. newsflash: they all suck and they re all pointless, useless and no one cares for them nor uses them. but alas, we re doomed to the whole 'you re the shotgun exclusive faction' so we deal with it. (by completely ignoring above weapons altogether)

Yes we have scat maxes. and yes, I would trade my scatterguns in a heartbeat for machineguns, slingshots or fully automatic toothpick dispenser. ANYTHING with range will do. but no. NC is 'the shotgun faction.' so we get nothing useful past 5 meters range.

Enter the Jackhammer. A somewhat decent shotgun for the NC only that has a nice gimmick (burst fire). It's nowhere near as useful as the Minigun the TR have or the Lasher the VS have with its 'hose and splash' capabilities. But at least it was something unique.

So here comes SOE, ever the inovative and creative minds and make an NS weapon that is, in essence, the Jackhammer. for all classes. and all empires. so not only do the NC lose their unique heavy weapon, we can now look forward to TR LA that outperform an NC's Jackhammer and if that doesnt work just grab their machinegun pistol for a ranged attack. nice.

So dear SOE, if you re so hell bent on throwing the whole empire specific speialication out the window whenever you damn well please, be a dear...


and give the NC the option of getting a flipping NS Minigun or explosive firing machinegun.

Nothing if you're playing TR or VS (it's good value), however if you're playing NC then it is very different story (both in a value sense and in a gameplay balance sense).

To balance it would require a NS MCG and NS Lasher.

It is very similar to the JH in normal mode (with its extra pellet potentially even better in some circumstances), but the real issue is likely to be slugs (something NC players have repeated asked about for the JH), in that context it would seem to be an upgraded JH.

You must be new here.

lmao^

I dont see how this Shotgun should be similar to the Jackhammer. They only have the Spread and the Projectile Speed in common. Other then that the Jackhammer has a larger Magazine and Burst Fire mode, wich practically instagibs everything, while the Baron has less Ammo and can only fire single shots on a slightly lower RoF.

I also dont see how Slugs on the Baron should be an issue, if you remember VS has used Slugs on there Shotguns befor they removed the nodrop on them. Since the TTK is in range with other weapons i dont see any issue and im looking forward on using it.

The reason why the Jackhammer never got access to Slugs is simple. Slugs would enable the Jackhammer to still instagib everything on close range due to Burst while adding the ability to fight at Range, wich would be way to good for this weapon.

Accuracy is what makes the JH burst fire mode short range only, adding slugs would only make the slugs disperse around the target instead of actually hitting it. In the same breath, look at the Baron accuracy compared to the JH accuracy. The Baron accuracy is about 200% better than the Jack.

I still dont see how the Baron should be a Jackhamemr for everyone.

SOE- I dont want to give my Jackhammer to other factions so I ask you- change the accuracy of baron. You can buff it in any other way, I dont care. But I dont want give my primary, most important Jackhammer trait, which is accuracy, to damm NS weapon that any class can have!

Also, after nerfing Saron and Enforcer so we all will buy Halberd- I think you should stop on it because that was one greedy trick.

Dont make me think of you this way please.

I do not know how much you drank, that you start comparing this garbage with jackhammer.

This is why the PTS exists, so players can check out what's coming out, test what's new and bring attention to the Devs.

I had explained earlier that the accuracy and effective damage of both the NS Baron and Jackhammer are the same. They both have the same number of rounds required to kill a non-infiltrator/non-nanoweave static target at 10, 15, 20 and 25 meters using semi-auto, which indicates that the extra pellet in the NS Baron makes up for the 12 points per pellet difference in damage. Excluding burst mode, the Jackhammer and Baron have the same TTK in semi-auto at the indicated ranges. The TTK within 15 meters changes against static targets with the Jackhammer having the higher TTK within 10 and variable TTK at 15 meters and beyond due to the nature of burst mode and pellet spread.

Of course, these numbers do change in real combat against moving and nanoweave equipped targets. The Jackhammer in burst mode will dominate within 10m being an instagib but will become a double burst at 15m against Resist/NMG and/or Nanoweave targets, which most likely lead to death against skilled players. This is why most experienced Jackhammer users stick to semi-auto and why threads like this pop-up.

The NS Baron does encroach on the effective level of the Jackhammer and pretty much gives 85% of the benefits of the Jackhammer to every faction and non-infiltrator/MAX class.

I have posted my own threads and gotten some responses, most being negative toward the obvious solution. The best solution would be to not release the NS Baron, but that is clearly not going to happen. It's coming no matter how much we cry about it. The next solution would be to change the PTS Baron to either deal less damage with higher velocity or have a smaller shell capacity. I do not want that since it would make it a less effective weapon.

The obvious choice would be to release the NS Baron and give TR and VS their mini-Jackhammer. Once that is done, increase the performance of the Jackhammer. Bigger magazine capacity and base ammo pool, give it a default automatic mode, and increase it's effective range to 112 @ 15m and 90 @ 40m. Additionally, make the Jackhammer sound like this:

lol good one. But realistically, they do check for feedback.

NC stop whining about faction traits. the VS is useless as all. we have bulletdrop an all necessary weapons, most tr weapons have more accuracy than our.

the Baron is fine, but still not better than the old thanatos with slug

It has slightly more damage with the spread and velocity which gives it the same shots to kill at pretty much every range AS the Jackhammer (which is pretty similar).

It doesn't have the versitility of the JH with triple-fire, no (but if it did it wouldn't be "similar" to the JH it would BE the JH).



It also has slugs (which the JH does not), the issue with that is two fold: 1) with the lower CoF it makes slugs more viable in hip-fire (people that use NC AI MAXs understand this concept well) & 2) with the higher velocity it makes slugs better in ADS.

I suspect the slug aspect will play a major role.

The Jackhammer still has better CoF in Hipfire, not by the numbers, but if you test it on PTS you can see the CoF being smaller.

I think we should clarify something here. Befor the no bullet drop was removed from VS Shotguns, Slugs where used by VS for something called Slugsniping. For ADS, the CoF for crouching and standing is the same like the existing Shotguns, only movement is slightly better. I have nearly 12.000 kills using Slugs on my Thanatos and Pandora in CQC and on Range and i could easily hit targets in a distence of 150m+ using a 2x Reflex. I never seen any threads complaining about the possibility of using Slugs as VS on infinite ranges. From my perspective i dont see any problem since this gun has faster projectiles but bullet drop. For me its something like the Battle Rifles should be, but never got. Also the TTK with Slugs is not better like with other weapons commonly used,

This could very easily be a visual bug however.

Yes, but its also not uncommon for the PTS that there is no match between real numbers and shown numbers.

Do you mean the CoF reticule? Because that can be bugged and way off.
Or do you mean actual in-game measured spread?

With no bullet drop VS shotguns were WAY outperforming NC and TR equiverlents with slugs (hence the nerf), bullet velocity is much more important to that sort of performance than no bullet drop.

However with a low CoF slugs also become more viable with hipfire (this is basically the only thing that makes the Mattock work at all - when combined with decent velocity).


The JH isn't that great compared to the other shotguns, but it does (or did) have a bit of uniqueness (largely lost with the Baron) and more versitility (arguably the Baron might be more versitile too with slugs - albeit not in quite the same way).

H

Haven't tried the slugs, but I still think that it seems fine without them, balance wise.

Slugs like velocity for ADS and low CoF for hipfire, both of which the Baron has. It's got to be the best slug based shotgun.

Maybe just nerf the slugs a little bit? Like the damage of them or something.