NS-9 Rocket Rifle Disscussion/Ideas

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by Mikte, May 10, 2016.

  1. Mikte

    Before I begin, the idea behind this thread is to act as a resource for the Dev's to look back onto for ideas and the communities thoughts, and incidentally a handy place for me to spew my ideas no matter how insane they might be.

    Light Assault long needed a Tool to use and I believe the Rocket Rifle and its adaptive nature is a good candidate for this role.

    Current Iteration: 5/10/16

    Ammo
    --HEAT (Soon to be AP): I'll be treating this type as AP. As it stands, I believe its in a ok place, its slow projectile velocity and aggressive bullet drop still allow LA's to combat armor at range and yet not rob the HA of their vehicle effectiveness. Considering it low damage vs its high fire rate, comparable to the Striker in fire rate, and reload speed. Very useful when above vehicles but at this point I'd would rather use C4 if possible. Using the bullet drop, possible to arc rocket over terrain to hit target.

    --Slug: Considering the COF is little effected by flight, this can be fun to us while in the air, but it is lack luster. Handy when caught with the Rocket Rifle out but otherwise lack-luster.

    --Smoke: The fact that 2 smoke "rounds" can be fired in quick succession before reloading being smoke rounds take 3 "rounds" and no less can be handy, but considering Smokes current iteration, I believe Smoke deserves its own post.

    ~As it currently stands, their isn't much to talk about being this is the first iteration of the Rocket Rifle as is likely to change drastically in the coming weeks.

    ---Ideas---

    Ammo
    --HE: Considering this Rocket Rifle is carried around by a flying maniac, the HE rounds should have a relatively small blast radius and/or low damage. This way you can trade out vehicle effectiveness for infantry effectiveness. Now since I'm aware ammo is mixed and matched through the different Ammo Attachments, I'm of the opinion that the AP and HE types should not be a possible combination.

    --Flash Grenades: This could allow for long range flash grenades for allies, to make this work and not out preform the actual Grenade is have the grenades go off on impact, not bounce around.

    --Bunker-Buster: A high velocity round doing little damage to anything until it hits a player made building. At this point it can penetrate that structure and do damage to whom ever is on the other side of it. Little damage to the building it self, but still damage it.

    ~Regarding the Bunker-Buster, this is limited to some buildings (Walls, Bunkers, Shields(?)), also I would put this type as a stand alone type, so no other types of ammo with it.

    ~As a side note for HE and Flash ammo. I can see these being OP in some regards, so I would encourage more ideas on these. Lastly for the flash grenade, since its counterpart costs resources and considerably more certs to unlock, I would put the prices to be comparable to each other. Again, post your ideas as this can be tricky with multiple ammo types per ammo attachment.

    Attachments
    --Grip: Some type of grip that when on the ground, accuracy would improve but bloom to its current form when flying.
    --Backfire Module (Names aren't my thing): A attachment when equipped increases the velocity of the rockets (AP and Smoke) and the cost of possibly damage.
  2. Mikte

    Regarding Smoke
    As most of you no doubt know, Smoke is kind of in limbo in its current form. Its effectiveness isn't very reliable as its coverage and life span varies depending on a players graphic settings. Smoke is mostly dictated by the Particle settings of a player, but other setters do effect it, but I haven't had to patients to determine which does. I've seen many ideas regarding smoke and figured the Rocket Rifles use of it, I would also post these ideas here.

    Spot Blocking: When a smoke grenade is deployed, prevent allies and enemies alike from spotting each other through it so they don't just have to shot at the little arrow above the others heads.

    Consistent Graphics Coverage: Being that each player Graphics is different, I prepose that smoke receive a tuning pass on all graphics levels and customizations. So when someone deploys smoke, they know without a doubt its covering them.

    ~Seriously, smoke is more effective the higher graphics you go, I play on Low. Within 20m the smoke is no more than a small dust cloud appearing and disappearing here and their on your screen. Between 20m-150 its effective, and outside of 150m it just doesn't generate. (I have max draw distance so that's not a factor)

    Performance Pass: Since smoke has never been widely used because of better options and the fact this tool is unlocked by default, I can see smoke being more spammed and thus causing my issues with frames, especially in large fights.
  3. cobaltlightning

    The smoke thing and the HE Rounds I do agree with, but instead of attachments, I'd instead make the tool itself count as small arms, and each type of ammo (save for smoke) can damage vehicles. Could be used as another counter against them peek-a-boo types with the vehicle shields.

    Spot Blocking and Bunker Buster is iffy, imo, but that's because they'd require more coding. Most everything else can be pulled from another mechanic and tweaked to fit, which usually means less work.

    I haven't bothered to learn how to change my graphics so where Smoke is non-existant. I do agree it's kinda not very fair, like the Infiltrator Cloaking of Old. Smoke Grenades should use the highest graphical setting, much like the Infiltrator's cloak. And the fact that it can and will be spammed gives more reason to run IRNV.

    On the topic of Smoke Grenades, I feel that, in its current form, the Rocklet should launch 3 smoke grenades with its mechanic in a big COF, instead of just the one. Can live without, but would just make more sense on the economy of it. Plus, could give a reason to rain smoke on an enemy encampment from 40-50 meters above 'em.

    Lastly, While I play on Low Graphics, too, I never had a problem with Smoke Grenades doing harmful computer performance stuff. If it's just the smoke and, say, not the muzzle flash or what ever else falls under the same category, I think it should be fine.
  4. H4YW1R3

    So far, I'm unimpressed.

    I just want a useful tool. The infiltrator's darts and spotters are very useful. The medic's and engineer's tools are not only useful, but what I consider vital to their class. And the HA's rockets? I don't think I have to say how useful they are.

    And that's what I want for the LA. Something I'll actually use and find valuable to the class. I don't see it "robbing HA of their vehicle effectiveness" considering how many options they have with their rocket launchers (AA, lock-ons, etc), and vehicle grenades.

    Right now, as they stand, I'll carry one just because it's a free slot unused if I don't. But I don't see any reason to carry any HEAT or AP as it stands, when everyone can use a crossbow with explosive rounds. The only thing the rocket rifle has over that is range, and I'm going to have to get up close anyway to plant c4.

    Smoke is crap. It always has been. I don't think I've ever bothered to cert into any type of smoke grenade.

    And the slug, as it stands now, is worthless. I'd rather get caught with my sidearm out than a rocket rifle armed with slugs.

    The way it's looking at the moment, LA is just getting a filler for the tool slot. It's not looking to be nearly as useful as the tools for all the other classes.
  5. Mikte

    Keep in mind this is the first iteration of the Rocket Rifle, only came out yesterday. Following the Dev's trend on stuff in PTS, it won't behave at all the same come final version.
  6. Rikkit

    So far i'm impressed by the TR Version of the Rocket rifle. it allows to Blow up an MBT with a single Brick of C4 and one scatter shot.
    It's also nice to have a tool to finish off a sundy, that just got damaged by 2 bricks of C4 without waisting a Pistol or an Atachment slot on the Main gun.

    If the Rocketrifles of other Empires got buffed to the level of TR, the Rifle is fine.
  7. Kubin

    I'm freshly back from my tests with rocklet, and what can I say is: either TR is overperforming a bit, or the other two are lacking something, in regards of fighting heavier vehicles. Why? Because:

    TR: Not only has the highest DPS ( which is "their thing" so it's okay) but also seems to have more DPM (damage per magazine) by small but visible margin. They can use rocklet rifle as a pump-action shotgun with reload after each shot and can OHK with it, which other faction's can't do with their ES ammo.
    They lack in terms of dealing with infantry at any range beyond the quicknife distance, and are pretty close-range when dealing with tanks, but the latter doesn't have as much impact, since they empty their mag in one shot, allowing them to better utilise the "1x C4 + 1 rocklet mag" against tanks. They also can instakill ESF units if they are close enough, whereas other 2 factions have to shoot twice (NC) or thrice (VS).

    NC: They have the middle ground in terms of DPS, but their damage seems to be a little bit lacking (which is odd - it's NC), having the worst DPM. They would, perhaps, utilize their better control (laser-guided ammo) if the range wouldn't be so short. Not that I'm saying "give them long range!" because the last thing we all want is mini-ravens on LA. All in all - I feel like NC are in the overall worst position with their Rocklet.

    VS: Worst DPS due to the 3-shots-per-mag firing mode, yet better aim than NC (despite the laser-guiding of the latter) and middle ground in terms of DPM. One thing that might "kinda-sorta" count as an advantage of Starfall is its ammo control due to firing only 1/3 of its magazine at once. This helps with not wasting ammo on "overkills" and boosts sustainability of damage, since VS characters can shoot 2 times and reload which will count as short-reload, technically makes VS faster firing over a long time. This, however, isn't much of an advantage in a game as fast paced as PS2.


    Also - flak bullets seem kinda gimped for now. They're way too slow to hit smaller aircraft (and do close to no harm to bigger ones) from a distance, and if you'd have to get up close, you're way better off by firing your LMB and destroying them in one mag.

    Common thing for all ES ammo types is that they can all destroy an MBT with 1x C4 and 1 mag combo, and Sunderer with 2x C4 and 1 mag. Still - TR will do it faster and have way higher chance of killing Vanguards than VS does, due to a fact that Vanguard driver will have visibly longer window of time for popping his iWin Shield while VS character has to shoot 3 times, than when TR character spits out an entire magazine.
  8. TomDRV

    some kind of laser-range finder attachment? Allows you to set distances for air burst detonation (XM25 style)
  9. Tanelorn

    Here's my outrageous suggestion:
    Do not give the RR to the Light Assault

    I say this for several reasons:
    1. Like it or not, the RR is a heavy weapon. It is the equivalent of giving the LA the Archer or an ES heavy weapon. A LA is restricted from carrying LMGs, ARs, RLs, etc. This is the same thing.
    2. The UBGL on the carbine is restricted to 2 rounds for a reason. LA + splash damage = OP. The RR greatly magnifies this mechanic.
    3. The LA is already an AT bomber. It doesn't really need to now be a flying AT sniper.
    I know it is hard to say no to a LA with a RR considering the fun you are likely having shooting rocklets from treetops. But from a holistic balance approach, I think it doesn't belong with LA.

    I WOULD be in favor of a carbine integrated with a smaller RR with a revolver-like 3 shot magazine. That's a good balance IMO.
  10. Kubin


    While I can see why you're against LA having RR, I'm not with you. As the name suggests, yes - it's a Light class, but it's also an Assault. Heavy Assault has access to heavy weaponry, heavy rocket launchers and on top of that has an overshield. Light Assault not only has no heavy weaponry and no shield, but also no rocket launcher and all that is a trade off for a jetpack. Is jetpack useful? Hell yeah it is, but so is overshield and heavy weaponry.

    Light Assault should be treated as Heavy Assault's little brother, who isn't as resistant, but is more mobile whilst still being "generally" the same. Giving LA a rocklet rifle will reflect it by behaving like a "light rocket launcher".

    And regarding your point: "LA + splash = OP" - well... I don't know if you've tried the rifle yet, but the splash damage is ridiculously small and can't be compared to even a grenade, let alone C4.

    After tests I find the RR to be an extension of LA's role - assault. Now they'll have more edge in confronting MAXes and - if played well - armor, extending LA's ability to deal with MBTs from 1 per terminal visit to 2 per terminal visit, and possibly more IF LA would simply go for killsteal practice and finish off smoking tanks.

    When it comes to dealing with infantry - RR is bad. Really bad. And it should stay that way.
  11. Daigons

    So far I like what I see with the RR. It seems to be the perfect addition to the LA's ability to sow chaos & sabotage behind enemy lines. I see the RR as a potential way for lone wolf LAs to form small strike teams. I just like that the LA has a chance with taking down a unguarded or poorly guarded Shield Sundy.

    @ Kubin, thanks for the idea of stretching out the LA's resources. I want to see what the RR has to offer when only using 1x C4 against a MBT. I'm interested in seeing how the RR will work against heavily damaged heavy vehicles so we don't have to waste a C4 charge on them.
  12. cobaltlightning

    Just poked around with the new ammo types in the VR a bit, but now it feels a lot more meh.

    The ammo types feel fun, and I really like the faction specific types, but I feel that the shots expire WAY too early, moreso on the faction-specific ammo. That, and the lack of a (noticable) splash radius would further limit its use to either light AP or another anit-MAX tool.
    It don't feel like a nade launcher anymore, rather a pitiable extremely short ranged rocket launcher. In the scenarios the current RR would be used, I feel a Decimator would get the job done harder, better, faster, and stronger.

    Start to Finish, default RR has to expend all its ammo to take out a full health Magrider from behind, and that's while being practically next to it. That's rather weak, considering the ROF and reload speeds, and would be plenty enough time for the magrider to turn around and shove a big ol' ball of plasma down your throat. Maybe the specialized ammo does it better, I don't know, I'm going by what everyone would have access to.

    The flak rounds are especially annoying expiring before they reach the target, too, with its heavy flak projectile. Already it would take a big of know-how for the flak round to even hit aircraft, so I don't think it should expire THAT early.

    I do see the reasoning behind it, what with giving the NC LA a Miniature Raven. It's a balance issue, of course, but for the CRAG and the Starfall I feel I could use their innacuracy as more of a blanketing effect as much as shoving the RR up the tail pipe of enemy tanks. They just simply expire way too soon to be considered outside of such a specialized role.

    Lastly, I'd recommend one more ammo type, which would just turn it into a normal grenade launcher. If LAs can flank from above, I feel HE Rounds would be best suited for them. 'Course, there's balance things, maybe have one HE Round do half as much damage as a normal grenade while keeping the normal grenades' radius, and like 1% total damage to a stock Lightning?