[Suggestion] NS-11C: To make it better, all it needs...

Discussion in 'Engineer' started by Koldorn, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. Koldorn

    Is a higher bullet velocity.

    This has been bothering me for some time; but haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. This gun? Doesn't shine at really anything, anywhere. Not against other carbines, not against other NS weapons. Its mid-pack or lackluster from any angle. Yet I still come back to the damn thing. So I spent some time looking over the weapon stats... and noticed something. Its pretty much equal to every category with the NS-11A with one MAJOR exception. Bullet velocity.

    Bullet Velocity
    NS-15M: 640m/s (Tied with the T16 and Ursa)
    NS-11A: 640m/s (-10 from the Gauss, +10 from the CME)
    NS-11C: 450m/s (Tied with the Lynx???)
    NS-44 Commissioner: 450m/s (Fastest-in-class)
    NS-7PDW: 400m/s (Tied with the Sirius)

    Average across all weapons of type:
    LMG: 608
    AR: 604
    Carbine: 492
    Pistol: 362
    SMG: 367

    Even against weapons of its matching type; Nanite Systems weapons are traditionally over the average, or the top (top 3 in worst case) bullet speed weapon of each category. Except: for carbines. It is well below the average bullet velocity in the carbine category; and is actually near the slowest bullet speed in the weapon class. Losing out only to the Jaguar and Serpent. (And its by 10m/s to the Jag)

    Call it a nit-pick, but I believe the NS-11C is far over due for a substantially faster bullet. I'd like to see a 560m/s (under the T5-AMC, on par with the Razor); as it would provide the VS with a fast-round carbine that they are lacking. (Fastest being the standard Solstice @ 515m/s) Realistically however; I'd expect around a 530 to 540 area to bring it up to par.

    Or, while on the subject of wish lists... what do I have to pay to get the NS-11A useable on the engineer? :)
  2. Jovisfulmen

    It's has the exact same stat as the NS11-A except for the damage drop off and the bullet velocity. It has the low recoil of an assault rifle, that is pretty powerful for a carbine. It does shine at destroying everything between 30 and 60 meters, and still stay good a bit closer. The low velocity has never be a problem in my eyes, leading a tiny little more is no big deal. Furthermore you can equip HV ammo.
    I'm not against a buff, but it's not needed either, the NS-11C is already a very good carbine.
  3. Audi03

    Carbines are not exactly supposed to have higher BV and NS weapons are not really suppose to shine at anything other than ease of use.
  4. Koldorn

    Does it not seem out of place then, that all other NS weapons are actually best-in-class projectile speeds?

    NS-15M: 640m/s 1st place in LMGs (Tied with the T16 and Ursa)
    NS-11A: 640m/s 2nd place in ARs (-10 from the Gauss, +10 from the CME)
    NS-11C: 450m/s 17th place in Carbines (Tied with the Lynx, only slightly above the Serpent)
    NS-44 Commissioner: 450m/s 1st in Pistols
    NS-7PDW: 400m/s 1st place (Tied with the Sirius)

    The carbine is the clear outlier.
  5. WyrdHarper

    The bullet velocity is all that keeps it from being a better T5 AMC accessible to all factions.
  6. Koldorn

    The most striking differences would of course remain the advanced forward grip, 5-additional rounds, and much lower first shot multiplier (1.5x vs 3x), completely reversed horizontal pull (right vs left), and aim down sights movement multiplier (.5x vs .75x).

    I believe those would still be sufficient enough differences to warrant both weapons.
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  7. Sen7rygun

    I agree. The NS11C needs a substantial velocity increase. Its equal worst dps weapon in the game and also has painfully slow rounds that make it pretty bad outside of CQC range.

    I want to love it but it just doesn't let me.
  8. Ttariel

    The only reason i use it over other weapons is its look, im sure everybody could use at least 2 other wepaons that are better in general. But the Vanu an Terran weapons looks so lame after a while.

    So its a purple toaster / Red spear vs a stylish "Gun"
  9. Qasar

    I'm going to have to try this out with one of my Engineer builds because having put over 1700 kills on it with my Light Assault, I couldn't disagree more with it being anything less than amazing. I love this weapon and have a hard time putting it down even in situations where I really shouldn't be using it like in towers. It's so accurate even while strafing and aiming at the head. So easy to use. Aim at the neck or thereabouts, let the first shot kick the weapon up a little, then hold down the trigger for about 8-9 bullets. No burst necessary and frankly a bad idea. Comp, HVA, Foregrip, and 2x Reflex.
  10. Koldorn

    I want to love this gun. But as Sen7rygun above states, it won't let me. At the ranges your LA will be engaging; bullet speed is little of an issue. It is exactly why weapons specializing in CQC (Lynx, Serpent, GD7-F) traditionally have very slow bullets; but hose out a ton of them. The NS-11C has the slow rounds... but a comparatively abysmal fire rate. So what justifies this?

    How do you aim? Hip? Or ADS?
    The NS-11C shares the same cone of fire as all carbines in the game, standing. (3 exceptions, Jag is better, VX6-7 is better, ACX-11 is greatly worse)
    This holds true with moving hip fire, even the exceptions.

    Standing it shares the same COF as all carbines, minus the "ranged" carbines. (ACX-11, AF-19, Gauss Compact S, Pulsar C, GD-23; which are all superior)
    The area of strength; is the moving-ADS CoF (.25 vs .3 of most), where it shares the exact same cone as the Solstice and Solstice SF. Against the solstice is has only a hairline less vertical recoil, but a slightly higher first shot bounce. Same bullet damage, but less fire rate. However, the Solstice clocks in at a 515 velocity. Meaning, stock it's bullets are faster then the NS-11C (450) without paying the additional vertical recoil cost (Compensator). Which nullifies the advantage in recoil it had to begin with, without bringing the velocity up to matching speed.

    I cannot say how or why you get the performance you do; but I can say statistically in the vast majority of situations the light assault is in, you would have fared better with a Solstice, or Serpent in close.

    This is the problem. The NS-11C, unlike its other counterparts; has no place against the other available weapons. I believe, it is due to its uncharacteristically (for an NS weapon, which on average are incredibly fast velocity weapons) slow projectiles.

    For a complete list of actual stats, incase there is something I missed or got wrong:
  11. Qasar

    I'm thinking it's the .75 movement speed combined with an amazing accuracy and easy to control full auto recoil. By ADAD strafing while ADS'ing, I'm able to win a lot of fights, even against heavies (as long as I'm aiming at the head which is easy to do with this weapon), that I would probably lose at .5. I rather like the Solstice VE3, myself, as it has excellent accuracy that's pretty easy to get headshots with. But that slower movement speed can be the make or break hinderance in a lot of face to face fights.
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