Nothing Keeps SNIPERS in Check

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by IrishInsanity, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. Tovarisch Maxim

    "Move" they said...

    I was moving fast, dodging and I still get headshoted no matter what, even getting those moments where I shoot the infiltrator, move A - D, and still getting headshotted. I really wonder from where you can get those Ultra-MLG aiming skills, because I suspect it as an aimboting.

    This is literaly the problem I have with annoying Sniper-bolt infiltrators.
  2. EmeraldShadow

    This game isn't hitscan. Aimbot is useless for sniping. It would need to predict the movements and be perfectly calibrated to the specific gun you are using.
    • Up x 1
  3. EmeraldShadow

    Why so many whiners in this thread? Snipers aren't OP at all. Just don't stand still in the open.
    I bet someone is going to cave to these whiners and destroy another part of the game.
    • Up x 1
  4. Aoikazego

    Well there are a few problems with infils. First, clientside hit detection. ANY GAME WITH CLIENTSIDE HIT DETECTION CAN BE AIMBOTTED. Second, infils can cap points while cloaked which shouldn't be allowed IMO. Thirdly, female VS infils have spandex that is way too tight and therefore distracting.
  5. Zagareth

    No offense, but what is "long" according to your interpretaion of "short"?
  6. Tovarisch Maxim

    Imagine a new player in the game. He joins the game and starts playing it, he take a few hits are run for cover, then all of sudden a sniper lands a headshot on him and he is dead, repeat this for a few hours, and the newbie gets frustrated.

    I used to be a newbie myself and I can relate to that very well. One of most of my deaths used to be fron snipers headshotting me when I dare to leave cover, and that happened for over 3 times, and I was frustrated as hell.

    The newbie after a few hours will think that sniper class with bolt action (The newbie will buy bolt action after ohbtaining enough certs) was the best way to get kills, only then to get frustrated even more (Because he is not skilled enough) and finaly leave the game.

    I understand that some players play infiltrator for It's intended role (Infiltrating and providing hack terminal support for your team) and not for camping and trolling players from afar.

    Ok then. Why does when I move, do zigzags, or fly with my jetpacks (Light assault), but still end up being hit by snipers? Quickscoping/Noscoping should not happen in my opinion, It's dowright ridiculous and stupid, please keep your MLG quickscoping for CoD and troll there.

    Nobody said that infiltrators are OP, please learn to read.
  7. LordKrelas

    And what happens when they get into a Building, face a Heavy, and get chain-head-shotted by an LMG? And find they can't do it.
    Get two-shot by a Comissioner Pistol? If they can even afford it, I bet they still can't do it.
    Engage an ESF on the ground without any AA? If they try to fly, they'll also rage-quit.

    So, Sniper fire isn't exactly the lone thing that they can't do due to lack of skill, when they attempt it themselves, after frustration of being hit by it.
    That's basically half the gameplay, when you are new.

    If your zig-zag is too predictable, or they get lucky, the shot lands.
    Flight with a non-ambusher jet is a pretty simple target; let alone on the decent.

    What exactly is the LMG Chain-shot, given there isn't actually you can do different.
    There is no remove sight-lines, given the Heavy isn't confined to a large range hollow.
    There is no close-the-gap; As that would make it easier on the opponent.
    There is no widen-the-gap; as that would make it harder on the new player to hit - not to be hit in comparison.

    There is no real difference in frustration, between getting shot by the Sniper, and being mowed down near instantly by an LMG.
    Not to mention, we have ESF's, MBTs, Quad-bikes with shotguns, Chain-head-shot experts, remote explosives, cloaks, and then Sniper rifles.
    If they're gonna rage out from Sniper fire, which is generally outside, they're gonna quit much faster when they encounter pretty much anyone able to hit a target, or drives a vehicle, let alone an Aircraft.

    This thread has been used to say by several people, as a very rough summary:
    Against sniping:
    • Snipers have to be incapable of their Jobs
    • Having the jarring de-scope & re-scope bypassed, improved RPM of the Sniper rifle. (Yes, seriously, that was said)
    • That Cloaks being disabled, would make it fair - ignoring on purpose, how said snipers would ever be able to fire.
    • Snipers are OP.

    For sniping:
    • A single LA, vehicle, aircraft, or even battlerifle ends the problem.
    • Movement ends the problem.
    • Being aware of the risk, reduces it, if actually taken into account.
    • There's actually skill involved to land the shot.
    So, if you go through this massive *** thread, you'll find most things in it.
    Including people calling it OP to hit near stationary targets with a Sniper rifle.
    But perfectly fine for chain-shots from an LMG, Pistol, or the like, to end people faster than a Sniper rifle, with less work.
  8. Silkensmooth

    The problem is the sniper is invisible. The heavy is not. The sniper kills you instantly. The heavy does not.

    Also no one is really OK with heavies, except heavies, but thats another thread.

    It is just very unenjoyable to have to constantly dance and move like you have to go to the bathroom really badly. NOT FUN. To constantly die to OHK snipers who are invisible until the moment they shoot you. NOT FUN.

    The same goes for tanks and AI mines. OHK from things you cant fight against or see is not fun.

    Its not fun for veterans like myself who have been playing a long time, and its even less fun for new players.

    Snipers used to be balanced by the relative difficulty created by having to unscope to chamber another round.

    Now there are snipers at every battle, and you cant poke your head out without getting insta killed by the invisible guys.

    My suggestion is to remove the headshot multiplier if the quick pull attachment is used. Then it becomes a sort of long range scout rifle.

    Another thing you could do is remove stealth from snipers. Equip a sniper rifle and you cant equip stealth. That would probably help a lot.
  9. LordKrelas

    The Sniper actually isn't while firing.
    The Sniper is also fragile, and easily blocked, avoided, and handled.
    The Sniper has to land the perfect shot, and has 1 bullet.

    The Heavy has several hundred rounds, and needs 3-4 - which are fired inside a few seconds.
    The Heavy isn't vulnerable when you close the distance.
    The Heavy is indoors, and can't be easily blocked, avoided or handled.
    The Heavy isn't as predictable as a Sniper.
    The Heavy carries anti-vehicle weaponry, anti-infantry weapon, an extra health bar, and can even use recon-darts.

    The Heavy is 3x as dangerous as the sniper, needs less skills to clear out any new player inside a second or three.
    The Heavy is more numerous, and the hardest to kill for new players.

    If you do not 'dance', you die to the LMG chain-headshotting you, the AR doing the same, Pistols, Carbines..
    Sniper rifles, are the single weapon this dance denies entirely due to being a single shot, needing to be landed on the smallest part of your body.
    If you do not dance, You are dead to every single shooter in this game, that can aim.
    Of dangers, a Sniper is far less, compared to the LMG's firing down-range unless you are already strafing.
    They have the RPM, the ammo, and have the easiest time landing those shots on even a moving target.

    AI Mines: are a bloody joke.
    Moving forward, you dodge the entire blast's lethal capability mostly if not entirely.
    That's the detonation delay robbing singular land mines from actually doing their job.
    Add in the glowing bits, and the Implants, then the land mine is even more of a joke.
    So, you can see Land Mines literally, pretty easily.
    Tanks? Often easier, unless at their farthest range.

    Hell, Snipers are more predictable than any vehicle.
    Have to be, due to their fragile nature, and requirement to be at that distance or die to faster weapons.

    Balanced, by their entire scope being cut-out, during a reload..
    You do realize, the guy you have a hard-on against, wouldn't miss the first shot, killing you anyway.

    As well, if you manage to poke your head out for long enough that a Sniper was able to actually put the round into you, that wouldn't happen if they had to descope... You were shot by a novice.

    Without the head-shot multiplier, you have to deliver multiple head-shots on a bolt action, upon hitting the smallest part of them, while they are alerted, ensuring the idiot isn't standing still anymore, possibly strafing again, at the very least moving fast & well aware of being shot at..
    IE, the likelyhood of even getting that same shot again, let alone with the de-scope, is ******* low as hell.
    Scout Rifles, are not Bolt-Actions.
    We do not need them, to be become near useless, just since you Need to be shot in the head to be aware of your surrounding for a second.

    Without stealth, no sniper can operate past the first sniper round, first idiot looking in their direction, or similar..
    They won't be able to get into position.
    Won't be able to actually aim, as you need to be static nearly to aim the things..
    And can't evade, once someone is bright enough to exploit the reduced health..
    Why do you think, with a cloaking device at that, Snipers pick the furthest distance they can hit the target?

    If the cloak, was enabling them to be perfect killing machines with their sniper rifles, they'd be closer not further, to get the easiest shots for the most damage -- Not as far as possible, and cloaking while at that further distance.
    As that seems quite pointless, to use distance, if the cloak was enough to protect them.
  10. Eternaloptimist

    I am coming around to the idea of reducing the headshot multiplier - not because of snipers but generally because the apparent growth in head-shotting generally, encouraged by new weapons, is another burden for the new player to overcome.

    AFAIK the Daimyo, the VS weapons with unstable ammo and maybe a few others are already reduced to 1.5x..............................
  11. Silkensmooth

    Looks like youre a fan of sniping lord krelas. Always people wanting to defend their playstyle.

    I personally don't care if removing cloak would allow snipers to operate.

    Imo constantly dying to ohk invisible planetmans is bad for the game.

    It makes new players quit.

    It's fun only for the snipers.

    It used to be balanced by the difficulty of follow up shots. Now you get several chances in a row to hit a moving target without having to rescope.

    Before the straight pull bolt, sniping was properly difficult, and now it isnt.

    Add to that the silly 3-4 shot daimyo and its even worse.

    Dark age of Camelot had a critical shot that archers could perform. It was much like a headshot in ps2. But this shot could only be fired on a target that wasnt moving. If the target was moving the crit shot would do regular shot damage.

    This kind of mechanic would be nice. Sniper rifles on moving targets only do regular damage, no headshot multiplier.

    Snipers should be sniping people who are standing still, like they used to. Not having multiple shots to fire and the lucky headshot wins it all.
  12. WyattStarslayer

    Uhm, actually, sniping keeps snipers in check. If you keep getting taken down by a sniper in the same position, start to actually look for them based in the angle you are being shot at, and snipe back. Everyone has access to sniping, thanks to the Blackhand sidearm. Or if you don't have that, just pull out infiltrator yourself. Sure, it'll take some hide-and-seek with both of you cloaking, assuming the sniper sees you too. But you'll eliminate him eventually.

    Another thing you can do to counter a sniper in some cases is sneak up on them. Stay out of their line of sight, and battle them at close range. They'll cloak and run to change positions, or, if you get the drop on them successfully, you'll kill them, or they will challenge you and you should be able to get them if you have any skill at all at close quarters combat.

    Countering snipers is a basic strategy for all fps games. It's not DB's fault if you don't know basic fps strats
  13. LordKrelas

    A heavy Assault makes players quit pretty easy as well: More common, where the new player is told to be, harder to kill.
    As does an ESF: Which is hell for new players to even try, hell to engage.
    As does pretty much every part of this game: Since everything but the sniper isn't avoided by pressing a few keys at random.

    Properly difficult: Every time you fired a single shot, you have to de-scope.. That doesn't prevent your "Annnd dead"
    The only time that saves you, is if they miss, and you actually paid attention.

    Daimyo, is hilarious.

    So, in Camelot, I assume 80% of the playerbase was AFK.
    As in planetside, the only people standing still are:
    • Complete idiots
    • The AFK
    • Snipers
    • The moron standing in a field.
    Which would mean, Snipers would have to find the rarest target, or get the hardest possible shot twice.
    Since Sally Jim there, can't be arsed that a long-range shot could actually be done when they sit still in a Field for 5 minutes.

    Not to mention, every single gun in this game will be used to head-shot you.
    Only Snipers have to land the single bullet at a severe range, with a long reload inbetween single bullets.
    I get that you want to just press W, and pay attention to nothing.
    But, I'll head-shot you to death with a Sidearm, with an LMG, with a Carbine, and you'll die just as fast to you, as from a sniper.
    And why is that?
    Every part of gunplay in this game involves landing Head-shots: And you know what is the wining strat between heavies?
    Crouch-spam, ADAD dancing.

    You know how that works?
    Pressing A & D Keys, to add variance.
    And guess what, this works the best against Snipers, but is used by Heavy Assaults, LA's, Medics and Engineers against EACH OTHER to prevent being head-shotted by LMGs, Carbines, Assault Rifles, Pistols, SMG's even.
    Hell. If you don't strafe or dodge, an Archer will head-shot you easily.

    I get that you can't actually snipe: Nor play Infil properly at range. Nor actually handle the most fragile class.
    That a moving target, of any motion at all, should stop any kind of reward for accuracy in your mind.

    Given you think, forcing an entire de-scope, removing any ability to operate, and making anti-AFK motion anti-sniper is a solution to keep you from dying.
    The Sniper whom is your nightmare - won't need to de-scope, as it won't miss.
    The Sniper whom is your nightmare, will risk that suicide shot in spite.
    The Sniper whom is your nightmare, will double-tap.

    Or that Sniper will pull an LA, or Heavy, and grant you their perfect accuracy with a hundred spare rounds.
    Making you pray they return to 300 meter distances.

    If you can't handle strafing in this game.
    Everything will kill you easily: Snipers just teach you the most basic lesson.
    A good HA, will teach you just how severe this need is, if they bother to actually try.

    The only people standing still, are either idiots, Phoenix Users, or other Snipers.
    Snipers aren't meant to be the "Killing AFK, or landing the hardest shot amplified by moving target" types.
    One bullet. One kill.
    Unless you want every gun, to be unable to deal proper damage on a moving target. As the sniper is already doing more.
  14. Daigons

    If you're sick of being sniped while defending a base, than start hunting the hunters. It' very predictable where the enemy Snipers will position themselves. You can easily find those annoying snipers and while they are lost looking down their scopes, you can stab them as a Stalker Infiltrator. These snipers are such creatures of habit that you can pre-position your Stalker Infil and just wait for them to shoot from their favorite spots.
  15. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Who better to defend a playstyle than one who uses it? If you have no practical experience with a subject, you have zero business making definitive statements about it (positive of negative). I get killed by vehicles all of the time, but I know better than to comment too strongly on their balance because I am a poor vehicle driver and have a limited perspective on the subject aside from how to avoid dying to them.

    Personally I don't care if cloaked snipers bother you. See how that works both ways? Don't debate like this, it makes you look like a cretin.

    The fact that you are still on this subject is amazing. I haven't seen ignorance spoken with this much confidence since the 2016 election.


    I recently started playing on my NC alt earlier this year for the first time in a while, basically had nothing unlocked, still using the default bolter since for some braindead reason I wasted all my certs on the Railjack. I honestly only bought the SPB this week and only because there isn't a better attachment for that slot anyways. Almost all of the Bolt Driver stats here are done almost bone-stock (8x scope notwithstanding). Hardly Mustarde or Enigma, but fairly competent if I do say so myself.

    Also feel free to note the sharp increase in KPM, Accuracy, and KDR following my addition of the SPB to my arsenal this week. (Spoiler: There isn't one)

    I'm going to color-code this for your convenience, because shouting is impolite.

    Bad snipers only snipe people who are standing still because they can't hit anyone else. What separates Bad snipers from Decent snipers is the ability to hit a moving target, and what separates Good snipers from the rest is the ability to hit an evasive target (even then the odds are against a sniper).

    Bad snipers kill Bad players. If snipers are a problem for you, either you are Bad or the snipers are Good. The number of Bad snipers that kill a player who is taking steps to avoid getting sniped is a statistical anomaly.

    If your problem instead is that you do know how to avoid sniper fire, but pressing two keys at random intervals and wiggling your mouse slightly is too...taxing, then no offense, but the class balance in a video game shouldn't really be gracing the Top Ten on your Priority List.
    • Up x 1
  16. Doc Jim

    Sniping is fine and can be countered with little effort. Why are we still flogging this dead horse?
    Your refusal to adapt to threats is not a valid reason to change game mechanics.
  17. Zak Preston

    why do long-range snipers annoy you? With current meta you can kill a whole squad and a medic will res them anyway. This game is about teamplay ( => zergrush) and even 2-3 lone snipers won't change the tide of 64 vs 64 battle. Even if you remove all scopes that have 7x+ magnification, this won't change the game for 95% of playerbase. They are just an annoying but quite unimportant factor in most cases.
    CQC sniper with BASR or a marksman with SASR is a completely different beast that have a lot of counterplay.
  18. Tovarisch Maxim

    I dont care what playstyle you can like, cause I'm myself have alot of playstyles prefferences, and I can sometimes snipe for fun too.

    All what I'm asking is for:

    - Sniper should not be able to Quickscope or Noscope headshot me from close range. Like It's already obvious that PS2 is not a Call of Duty for MLG's quickscopers.

    - Sniper should NOT be able to shoot back at me from mid range or close range and headshot me when I already shoot and making multiple hits on him, It's extremely frustrating when that happens. I assume It's because PS2 does not have the surpression mechanic (Which Battlefield 3 and 4 did a good job with the suppression mechanic) to make sure such thing to not happen. Or maybe I'm missing something?
  19. Silkensmooth

    Cool story. I mostly play infiltrator, so i know all about sniping.
  20. Silkensmooth

    Besides it doesnt matter how much skill it takes.

    What matters is whether or not its a good game mechanic.

    Also it doesnt take very much skill at all to hit moving targets.

    You have 5 tries lol.

    Clearly it needs to be fixed. Im keen to see what the devs do about it.