Nothing Keeps SNIPERS in Check

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by IrishInsanity, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. TR5L4Y3R

    dark light turns yourself into a walking big "shoot me" sign .. tracers are realy only helpfull if
    the sniper misses and server connection is good ... i often had the case were i simply got shot and still not being able to see were the shot exactly came from despite the sniper being in the general direction of my view ..
    i also had cases of hearing a infil decloaking but before i could actualy see them decloaking i already was headshoted
    ... just yesterday i had the sitiuation that i saw a decloaked infill .. hit him twice and he hit me once .. i died first and he after (he wasn´t hit by anyone else before or after) .. so who did hit who first actualy?
    so there is some serious server BS going on that potentionaly impacts your play negatively that makes shot first even way more dangerous than it should be were you can´t react to it at all or it screws up your shots ...
    sure the firstshot situation is possibly with every class but to me it simply is the most frustrating against snipers ...
    so yea i think there should be a way to compensate that if DBG is incapable of good serverstability than players may indead have a counterscoutoption if not thermals then a heartbeat sensor which while not neccesarily allowing you to know what you are looking at you know that there is "something" at least ..
  2. LordKrelas

    The dark-light is usually used to find stalkers.
    A long-range ADS scope version capable of seeing them at long range makes it near impossible to actually use the cloak..
    Why? As the moment someone thinks there is an infil, they'd pull out the Scope, and see anyone trying to aim.

    Do recall, Cloak issues also happen to infils;
    And also, not every bloody hit from a sniper rifle is a kill shot.
    Add in, not every infil is a sniper, and a rail attachment allowing long-range detection basically means every infil is ****** in a massive invisible radius.

    If you know 'something' is there, like you see the cloak effect, you fire.
    If you could literally have a perfect "something is there", when it has to be a cloaker, and it's not at the darklight range...
    Which results in; anyone not within the perfectly-visible-to-people-paying-attention range would be decloaked anyway.
    The cloak has a visual effect, that you can see in closer ranges.

    And if your device is at the same range as the dark-light or carbine range, you basically screwed every infiltrator that isn't at perfect sniper ranges; Whom can usually be shot with a random bullet, rocket or vehicle shell in the usual spots of bother.
    And if it can reach those ranges: No bloody infiltrator would be able to even get within weapons-range while cloaked if a single guy has this scope.
    As if that thing doesn't decloak them, the timer will, or them seeing the cloak effects will.
    And unlike a darklight, no infil can even detect if you have the attachment.

    It's already visible.
    If you could see infils at long-range, they'd be doomed for actually engaging; The cloak is kinda what keeps the most fragile class from being slaughtered as easily at every range.
  3. TR5L4Y3R

    call me selfish but them actualy engaging would be what i would want them to do ....
    i mean i as a non infil am either forced to hunt them down ( them forcing me to engage basicaly) and am more likely to die or have to switch classes and i simply dislike sniping .... that or keep eating their bullets ... yay fun, keep calm and respawn doesn't always help ...

    heavies with overshield are slow so even easier to headshot ...
    medics and engineers both lack in tankyness ( the latter literally), mobility and range to reliably hunt them down ... so realy it's either light assault or countersniper infantrywise ... spending any nanites on vehicles or max to kill snipers even if it is viable (and in war anything goes) is more or less a desperation noobmove ...
  4. LordKrelas

    By actually engaging, I mean actually firing in any form not hiding.
    Your trick would make it impossible to fire a second time without being shot to death without any ability to hide/

    Either block LOS (Line of sight), or yes, shoot them in the face, same with every other target type.
    Cover is your Friend, again just like every other fight.
    Movement is their enemy, embrace it.

    All of those classes are also more durable, heavies have overshield, medics can self-heal, engineers quickly recharge.
    As well, Engineers have the Archer, Turrets, and you'd be shocked about sidearms, if you even need to bother returning fire.
    Medics have the remarkable assault rifle.

    If a sniper can see & Fire at you, then you have LOS to their position.
    If an LMG can hit it, the Archer and Assault Rifle certainly can; As can rockets.
    Or just put a form of cover between you & them; At that point, you might as well be immortal.

    Hell, if it's close enough, even a grenade works.
    Cover & movement is god - I hunt infiltrators a lot as pretty much every class, or not bother with them, by using the battlefield itself.
  5. TR5L4Y3R

    here is the thing with sniperrifles (speaking the high dmg ones primarily) vs any other infantry weapon ... it beats them all in speed, range and/or alpha dmg ... rockets are easier dodgeable than snipershots and as i mentioned before if the connection is bad even just slightly or you have problems with your rig you may as well not be able to react to them at all ...
    overshield doesn't matter on oneshot headshots
    shield recharge doesn't matter if you get oneshot headshotted
    archer requires 2 shots minimum and still is outranged
    turrets are a even worse deathsentece than a HA's overshield
    medichealing or any healing doesn't matter if you get oneshot headshotted ...

    yes you can/should use cover and movement .. so can however an infil along with his cloak even if timely limited unless stalker (which is generaly used for closer engagements and stalkers can only twoshot with sidearms so not much to complain there) ...

    i like to mention the game blacklight retribution again ...
    because in that game two things are possible ...
    - you can cloak
    - you can use the hyperreality visor which basicaly lets you wallhack seeing the positions of your opponents
    in both cases you can't shoot and both actions are limited by energy ...

    so if instead of a ads heartbeatsensorattachment infantryclasses would have access to googles with an heartbeatsensor and say x4 to x6(?) magnification (not the wallhack like BL:R) with limited powerusage not being able to do any other action except moving while using it .. would that be something you could see be fair in this game?
  6. LordKrelas

    Projectile speed yes.
    Damage if it hits; It generally is one bullet if high damage (bolt action), or numerous bullets at a slower pace.
    Head-shots are pretty critical.

    Rockets are easier yes; But not when dodging gunfire at the same time; That's how I manage it.
    Works so often, it is comic.

    That little issue you talk about; That happens in all gun-play.
    Expect the sniper has to deal with it too, with a slower-firing very accuracy-dependent weapon while having less health.

    Overshield does.
    Depends on the range, and Bolt action for the full effect.
    Head-shotting isn't the easiest task in the world on a moving target, and requires a bolt-action to be one-shot.

    I haven't ever once been out-ranged with my archer, and I'm hitting shots nearly across bases.

    Turrets can be cleverly used, if not for firepower, for angled firepower to block a head-shot, it can be used as instant cover.

    If you stand still, Every bloody gun will manage a head-shot, and reduce everything else but moving effectiveness.
    Called don't stand bloody still, do the work while moving.
    Bloody hell.

    Stalkers don't have anything beyond visible ranges in general.
    So dark-lights, and using your eyes mystically works.

    Cloak, is camouflage, that requires proper use, and can be seen through by trained eyes, in addition to dark-lights.
    I never bother to use a light myself; never needed it.

    Why in hell must you be able to defeat the entire point of the cloak at all ranges, for the most vulnerable class?
    Like seriously, you want to so badly to remove cloaking from use, that you forget:
    Snipers are the most stationary targets, as they need to be still.
    Snipers are incredibly fragile.
    Snipers stay at range due to being easily slaughtered by every weapon; A commissioner one shots them in the head.
    Standing still is a user error, not the fault of the Sniper.

    You want to get a thermal vision for seeing cloakers, that has magnification.
    And in order to balance it; You want them to be sitting ducks, since they would stand still anyway.

    Like just no.
    Cloak is barely use-able against people aware of their surroundings.
    At range, it is the only thing allowing them to fire past the first shot if they even get that.
    At close range, you need to literally jump through hoops.

    Anything that not only shows through cloaks, but does so invisibly at longer-ranges ends the entire use of infiltrators.
    How so? One guy ADS'ing or looking, and his buddy ends every single infil at range whom couldn't even know they were seen at a mile away.
    Whomever sets up first, can easily see the other side without them being seen.

    It's not fair in any sense, to literally make the cloak worthless at all ranges, since someone can't aim properly, use their eyes, or stop standing bloody still.

    Snipers have a hard enough time, actually helping a fight as it is.
    Any anti-cloak at such a distance defeats the entire point of the cloak.
    Close-quarters is already hit-&-miss, since lots of people like me can see through it, and others have dark-lights.
    The class is fragile as all hell.
    The long-range variant, barely a danger if you know what to bloody do, they have to manage to hit a moving target in the head.
    If using anything but a bolt-action inside the bolt action's nice range, it goes up to 2 or more head-shots on the same target.

    Try being a bloody infiltrator.
    You'll see why so many sit of the farthest hill away, or get an SMG.
    They can't survive return fire, if the cloak was disabled at a distance invisibly by someone looking at their direction;
    Unlike the Infiltrator cloak, the opponent has no way to tell that detection or person can see them.. no actual way to act.
    • Up x 1
  7. TR5L4Y3R

    wow hell dudel can you stop it with the bloody assumptions already
    i played infiltrator in fact the very first class i started with in this game was the bloody nc infil .. and for me it was rather easy with it to hit people in the head while moving from various but the furthest ranges and people only engaged me by the time i finished my beginner directive

    if you can avoid being shot your fragility matters jack
    and as i mentioned the googles/visor would leave you incapable of shooting aswell meaning if the infil is decloaked while you use the visor you are supervulnerable and may as well just be able to see how you are about to die just like in a reload or weaponswitchsituation ... just potentionaly longer ... it worked in blacklight: retribution and you still could be sniped by a boltaction in that game .. why should it not here as well? not saying it would be easy to balance

    you also seem to forget that both thermal for vehicles and as a implant exist so at night unless you get killed you too won't realy realise how your opponent could see you well at night ...

    also no, overshield does not help against headshots from boltactionrifles ... i got headshoted with active overshield and still got oneshotted from various ranges by a boltaction ..
  8. LordKrelas

    Apparently you got lucky.

    Yeah, if you can avoid getting shot, it doesn't matter how many snipers are attempting to shoot you.
    The Visor user would know the position of the infiltrator exactly - if they can't mystically switch and fire, they can inform an ally of the exact position of every cloaked user at a grand distance.
    Visor user can move, see anyone at all times that could fire upon them, and isn't shown to be capable of this trick to any infiltrator.
    Aka they don't know their cloak is rendered null at the sniper range by someone.

    Thermals never showed the defenseless cloaker in their cloak.
    They high-lighted everything but them.

    As well, an implant exists to block all thermals from seeing you, in addition to it being incredibly limited.
    And vehicles even lost the ability to see infantry with thermals.

    At distant ranges, as in the farthest ranges where your LMG can't reach, using Sniper rifles not built for that range.
    After all, multiple kinds of Bolt action rifles.

    I would know, I use the sniper rifles commonly.
  9. TR5L4Y3R

    so sensorshield could be used to counter the heartbeatsensor then aswell ... i generaly find it nonsensical that a infraredbased visor is not capable to detect someone that only is hidden visualy .. heat is still heat

    also the infil would be able to use the visor too meaning he could have the choice between the cloak or the visor ... and unlike thermals that heartbeatsensor would not highlight the silouette of the opponent instead it would show a mere blip of "someone" being there it doesn't even have to show anything on the minimap as i recal thermal neither infraredscopes don't either so the intel would be just for you on what is in your line of side (again no wallhack, so no blips behind walls)

    yea me lucky ... or my opponents incredibly unaware ...
  10. LordKrelas

    So in order to use cloak at a distance, you must use sensor-shield.
    Making infiltrators have to use sensor-shield in order to use their class ability.

    So an invisible infil, like a stalker, rendering all other cloakers including stalkers worthless.
    Given unlike the Darklight, you can see the stalkers at long range, without any sign of being able.

    Given it only detects infiltrators, that makes it impossible to ambush.
    Thermal highlights the entire body of the targets on your scope; from which you could spot them.

    Great, so any infiltrator not behind a wall is exposed even while cloaked to people.
  11. TR5L4Y3R

    wrong it doesn't make it impossible to ambush because again the visor/googles would like any ability only be used for a short time untill recharged as well as leaving those vulnerable who use it ... and it doesn't "only" detect infils it detects any infantry you otherwise barely can see at range especialy at night ...

    also so what about snipers being visualy exposed? they still eat less grenades or tankcannons to the face than engineers or medics also any non infantry not behind cover is exposed anyway ... infills merely have the benefit that people would have to look for them .. it also pisses me off that in order to actualy scout snipers i would have to realy on snipers of my own .. and at worst am not even able to see them at the minimap ...
  12. LordKrelas

    Oh yes obviously the never mentioned Limited-time-use of the Anti-cloak-I-see-everything-vision.

    Oh so basically the end-all-thermal-vision, so people whom want to see every possible target at sniper-ranges, can easily see every target without anything being able to hide in any fashion.
    Aka Get rid of everything that isn't this magical See-all-to-end-all better-than-thermal 2.0!
    As screw not being able to see something at max range due to any reason!

    You just want to invalidate any sniper or infil's cloak at all distances.
    In order to 'scout' infils, you don't even need an infil; Tracers, obvious sniper positions (LOS positions), The gunfire on the bloody mini-map (a lot don't use suppressors), any vehicle's radar...
    Or hell, use any vehicle even a flash - Oh look I found all the infils!

    Rather than "I'll use this device that renders the cloak null & found at Sniper range, that not a soul can tell I am using, who's cost is my inability to fire for the moment I am using it"
    Heaven forbid the most stationary target is there after a moment of being seen through every possible bloody means of stealth at the longest bloody ranges.

    Heaven forbid people aren't playing solo, and could possibly use this to literally exterminate all infils at sniper ranges without those infiltrators being able to even hide at all with their cloak outside of practical detection range.

    There is a reason the cloak is harder to see at a distance, that darklights are limited in range, that snipers stay at a grand distance if they can.
    Why they don't let you instantly know their position as easily as "look in my general direction"
    They die the fastest, have no means to defend from vehicles, are screwed if directly engaged, and need the cloak to actually be able to not die upon firing or trying to fire the first shot.

    You ever see what a sniper does? Aim while cloaked, de-cloak, fire.
    That is to reduce the time spent visible in LOS of every single person they are targeting, able to target, or could literally fire into their heads killing that a lot faster with either their own sniper, archer, LMG, rocket, tank weapon, turret, assault rifle or grenade.

    Aka dear lord, stop trying.
    Those snipers are doing a lot of work to stay off that bloody map, given how easy they are found and slaughtered.
    They do not need their entire class ability rendered silently useless at sniper-ranges.
    That distance making the cloak effective is kinda the only reason the cloak works:
    As it is visible at closer ranges.
    At closer ranges it can be heard.

    Someone being able to literally see through cloaks, highlight all infantry targets would be a superior-thermal that literally defeats all methods of hiding from someone's Target-vision.
    Which is sight-based, so you'd see everything not hidden by cover, which means anyone who could fire would be rendered dead-in-a-moment.

    How so? Sniper is the most stationary target, use vision, fire at the sod while they're cloaked, rinse & repeat.
    As that's the one you know the guy can-not-fire-back let alone before you can, since unlike you they don't even know you saw through the cloak at sniper range.

    And unless every single time you cloak you expect to be seen at sniper-range, high-lighted in the dark by "Thermal 2.0" with every other sod.. Oh wait, it's a literal better version of thermals that You want so badly so nothing can possibly hide ever.
    Aka do kindly rethink your entire basis for this idiotic toy.
    • Up x 1
  13. TR5L4Y3R

    limited powerusage so meaning the tool runs out of power at some point meaning you can use it for a limited ammount of time .. until it recharges ..

    so i DID mention it ..
    or shall i send you some coffee?

    nope just stop with the assumtions ..

    yes because everyone can see those tracers 100% reliably ..
    not everyone has vehicleradar
    gun fire of minimap from snipers is often of what i can see from the minimap also depending on how i am zoomed in ..

    first of the most stationary target is a engineer behind a turret ...

    you mean directly engaged while cloaked .. because a infil with a smg surely doesn´t lack in dps .. and neither are commissioner or burstfirepistols any bad ..

    are you done with your useless rambling/repeating yourself/saying stuff i long know?

    go try blacklight retribution or at least watch videos ..
    as i told you already .. it is possible to cloak, use a wallhack yet still snipe and ambush ..
    the hrv in that game was not made to make cloak useless .. it was meant against people who camp all bloody day ..
  14. LordKrelas

    So basically it's "limited", like the cloak, expect it works on a massive scale allowing you to see every possible infantry target in your line of sight, through everything but a physical wall.
    It's a superior form of thermal vision, and it beats the hell out of cloaking;
    Why, as it's long range it can defeat literally an unlimited number of cloakers at ranges where they can not even be considered sane to believe their cloak to be rendered null & void by someone looking in their direction.
    There is no way to balance the ability to nullify cloaks at sniper-ranges with all the perks of thermals in addition.

    Yes actually I do need coffee.

    You aren't meant to have a pin-point 100% reliable laser to every single shooter in this game.
    The death screen already has a pin-point indicator as well.
    Not everyone has the problem with not being able to instantly find every sniper.
    That's a you problem.
    Doesn't mean you a better-than-god-level of thermal vision.

    An engineer on a turret has the ability to rotate the turret, have angles, and also doesn't have their entire screen centered onto a distant location via a scope - IE an engineer can see to their sides, a sniper can not.
    A sniper also doesn't magically displace themselves at any moment they like.

    An cloaked infil with a SMG can be seen without a dark-light, and would be behind you rendering your vision-of-the-gods useless as hell against them, unless you spy them from across the field well outside their ability to do anything to make themselves not fodder.
    Commissioners one-shot an infil.

    As well, a sniper rifle or sidearm vs a full primary at a distance, with the cloak's advantages being rendered null, only the weapons-lock aspect of the cloak functional, means they are most certainly screwed if the opponent opens fire.

    Yeah as obviously, it'll be possible to use a cloak at a distance, where anyone can see right through it & get your *** high-lighted in a thermal view at the same time.
    You do not a thermal-vision trick, that also nullifies any means of camouflage, like what the ****.

    There is nothing to balance out having a thermal-vision that highlights every possible infantry target, including those cloaked & unable to even do anything nor know they are wasting their time.
    "Turn on Cert-vision2.0" "Cloaking is so op, I need to never not see right through it all the way to sniper range"

    Heaven forbid the visible-up-close weapon-locking time-restraint-for-most-infils camouflage isn't rendered null at all ranges.
    Since someone doesn't like not having a massive high-light of every single possible solider in their LOS without having to work.
  15. ParakeetLord88

    What keeps snipers in check? I do.

    Whether it's me double-tapping them with my blackhand or OHK'ing them with my crossbow (both as a stalker inf), or running them down in my scout ANT when they think they're undetectable, I do my best to be other inf's worst nightmare.

    Best part: you can do it too.
  16. Moonheart

    Nothing keeps snipers in check?
    I do.

  17. Zagareth

    Killing people (not necessarily snipers) with a knife does not keep snipers in check - that is way too slow. You kill them once, twice, as much as you want, but good snipers kill tons of other people before they die by a knife - but the casual sniper isnt a "Sniper", more like a hotshot with a rifle and can be easily killed by real snipers
  18. Demigan

    Time, range or not moving from the same spot (to save time) is what keeps snipers in check.

    It doesnt matter if the sniper gets a 70+KD doing what he does, as the average player will kill more guys and in more important area's than the sniper.
  19. Zagareth

    Not really... a sniper at the right spot can stop the enemies reinforcement aka vehicle supply for a good amount of time, can kill people at Sundie spawns, enemy snipers who are trying and failing to do the same... and so on...
    Usually you wont see the friendly snipers, who are successfully disturbing the enemies reinforcement. You only see, that somehow the supply chain of the enemy goes down an that your own faction gets the upper hand in their defending fight.
    What you didnt see is, that the disruption of the supply chain is way away from the real battle - a dirty, hated, and unheroic job, but extremely effective when proper executed - way more effective as you might think.
    The snipers you see are mostly the casual snipers who fail to make anything good before they die - the snipers you do not see are the most effective...

    But hey, being the average player and throwing his body in every bullet that comes along is ofcourse heroic and keeping the endless loop of "kill, death, spawn, return" alive is always good for the feeling to be useful for your faction... ;)

    Ah, well, what do I know... Im just a loser, sitting at a spot and waiting for someone tired of life walking in my crosshair... ("The perfect definition of a sniper") :eek:
  20. Nihil

    Stop making the devs solve your problems.

    If you're getting sniped, go HA and go sniper hunting. Counter snipe. Get in a vehicle. Call your outfit over. Use cover. Don't run in a straight line. Don't stand still.

    PlanetSide One solved this BY NOT LETTING CLOAKERS CARRY RIFLES. All cloakers could use were pistol size items. They had 0 armor and shields didn't exist. To balance this they could... *gasp* DO THINGS while cloaked. Hacking, jacking, shooting, throwing grenades, healing, rezzing, placing C4, calling orbital strikes etc. When they moved or did any of those actions they became somewhat visible AND as soon as you stopped you were invisible again. If you were a cloaker who got caught, you were DEAD.

    Sniping was done in light or heavy armor. No cloak, but you had some armor.

    If you are sniping in PS2, distance and cover are your cloak.