Nothing Keeps SNIPERS in Check

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by IrishInsanity, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. LordKrelas

    Heavy Shield is in the same field.
    So is every ESF.
    Same with every weapon actually, that is dependent on aim.

    Just a sniper exchange durability for that trick at a distance.
    An ESF is also relatively fragile for their immense firepower.

    But you have a hard-on for Snipers.
    That heavy assault is more dangerous, and more reliable to kill you: That Sniper is blocked by random key presses.
    That Heavy, couldn't give a single damn about what you do.

    So, yes, Accuracy rewards is a good mechanic.
    Every gun is this way - Only a Sniper is also screwed unless outside the enemy's firing range, unless they nail the shot perfect.
    In which case: They out-skilled their enemy hard.

    The fix is:
    Learn how to handle an opponent.
  2. That_One_Kane_Guy

    That's adorable, but your stats as provided by you say otherwise. Playing infiltrator is not sniping cupcake.

    If it was so easy I would expect your bolt action stats to be competent. I'm far from a shining example of competence and you don't even come close to me, let alone someone who doesn't have the reflexes of a dead mole rat.

    I mean, you can ask nicely but I don't think you'll be getting any help. Unless something has changed Devs aren't responsible for an issue that exists between the keyboard and chair.
    • Up x 1
  3. Silkensmooth

    The reason my stats with the sniper rifle isnt very good is because i started playing NC. That is where the vast majority of my kills on sniper rifles come from. I was very bad at the game at that time.

    I dont typically snipe at all anymore although i recently picked up the overpowered daimyo.

    Still just because i dont snipe much anymore doesnt mean i dont know exactly how hard or easy it is.

    I sniped several people today with the daimyo. While they were running.

    Defend it all you want. Accuse me of not knowing what im talking about.

    Even if it were true that i know nothing of sniping, which it is not. I know a great deal about getting sniped and how un-fun it is.

    It really doesnt matter if its the hardest thing to do in the game, which it isnt.

    What matters is, is it a good game mechanic for invisible people to easily be able to INSTANTLY kill people from ranges that prevent retaliation.

    For me and for many people the answer to that question is NO.

    I think that there are enough people unhappy with the situation that the devs will do something about it.
  4. Silkensmooth

    Over 1k kills with sniper rifles on NC. Several hundred on TR.

    How many people do you have to snipe before you get a good grasp of the difficulty level?
  5. LordKrelas

    NC uses a proper Bolt-action.
    Your knowledge of Sniper rifles, proper ones, then comes from when you were bad.
    You thought the Straight-pull-bolt increased RPM -- And had to be corrected on this.
    What in hell do you know about sniping with a bolt action?

    You believe, that a Sniper must pull off the hardest shot on a moving target, and need to do it twice, since they aren't losing sight.

    You don't seem to grasp how to handle an enemy sniper.
    The risks involved.
    Nor have any regard for how a Sniper operates, or why they are at range.
    You don't understand why the Cloak is used, or needed.
    Nor that if they were not vulnerable, due to Keeping sight on target while reloading, they wouldn't need to be 200+ meters away from target.

    Dynamo is a one-trick pony of a sniper.
    It has 3 shots, and no staying power: The entire thing is set-up for the Sniper whom doesn't miss much.
    That very sniper with a Dynamo, is the single Bolt-action sniper that would benefit from Bolts having to re-scope.
    Only if you nail each shot to the head, does that rifle even work: It's an NSX series weapon, designed specifically for accuracy.
    And you do not see this gun in much use: The range, and its inability to even use body-shots were too much.
    3 Shots, each a single-shot kill, did not off-set the price --- That should say a damn lot to anyone.

    Being sniped does not teach you what the sniper needs to do, Unless you actually try to learn.
    You'd know a Sniper is incredibly unlikely to hit a moving target - that random pattern not predictable ones are best at disrupting.
    That sight-lines are easily broken.

    You know what can instantly kill you, from your view-point?
    • Shotguns.
    • Vehicles
    • Heavy-Assaults
    • Medics
    • Engineers
    • Light Assaults
    • Explosives
    • Aircraft
    Shotguns, latency, or the good shots, double-taps or the like. Instant.
    Vehicles? Collisions, Anti-infantry weapons, Skilled shot.
    Heavy Assaults: Rocket Launchers, Latency, Chain-head shots.
    Medics: Latency, Shotguns, Chain-head shots.
    Engineers: AV turret, Latency, Shotguns, Chain-head-shots
    Light Assaults: Latency, C-4, Shotguns, Chain-head-shots.
    Explosives: They are ******* explosives.
    Aircraft: Latency, Accuracy, high-damage, rapid-fire.

    Everything in this game kills near instantly when used well.
    A good mechanic? A Skilled shot kills the target, and is done from the furthest range possible.
    On a class that is able to be one-shot by a Pistol at close-range.
    And mulched by most of the classes, any vehicle, any aircraft, if they get within firing range of them.

    If you can't properly strafe, Every single Good player in this game will kill you with Head-shots.
    As you are making it easy for them: And they do it with every class, every weapon, every vehicle.

    Just select people attack Snipers, for intelligently picking their targets, and making the hardest shot look easy.
    That same Sniper is the most easily killed class, and literally is dependent on positioning & accuracy to survive anything.
    I'm sorry you can't rofl at it, as a Heavy, and mow it down while standing still.

    Infiltrators, using a Sniper rifle, are doing their Job perfect if you can't properly handle them:
    means they just saved their team from having to deal with you, reducing the enemy's lone wolves to a lower count.

    If you can escape to cover inside a second, and the only reason you couldn't get to it earlier, and lived past the first shot is the Pull-bolt... You dealt with a **** shot, and are absolutely oblivious.
    A good shot, the one you hate, Wouldn't miss, and wouldn't be stopped by the lack of the Pull-bolt.
    So you'd complain that he one-shot you.
    Either way, You'd complain.

    You literally proved it in this damn thread.
    You don't understand accuracy, or the demands of it.
    I deal with Snipers, and I snipe.
    I do this with a Bloody pistol, and the Archer when really bored: Archer needs 2-3 shots to the head.
    Most Infils aren't used to return-fire, and even if the shot wouldn't damage them, they recoil.

    But that would take knowledge of handling an threat, not expecting it to vanish by itself to make it easier without any work.
  6. Silkensmooth

    Umm i still use sniper rifles. I was BR 100 on NC and BR 100 on VS before i ever played TR. I have several hundred kills with sniper rifles on TR. I have several kills with sniper rifle today.

    Seems like you are trying to say that i dont understand game mechanics, and dont know how to attempt to avoid sniper fire.

    You seem to think that there is some counter in gameplay, like adad all the time and run like you drank a bottle of scotch..

    I have a k/d of 1.6 and i cant seem to do it. So how good do you have to be before the snipers dont snipe you constantly while running, falling, flying through the air, every time you peek out from behind the rocks.

    Maybe you just need to be REALLY good, like you guys and then you wont get sniped. I don't think ill ever reach your level.
  7. LordKrelas

    You can have 100 kills with a gun, and not once ever use ADS.
    You can have several hundred Medals for capturing a base, without ever firing a shot.

    If you have trouble, with motion in-game, which literally is the shield of the gods against sniper fire.. You need practice.
    Just like with an ESF, you need practice to actually get progress.

    K\D. lol.
    1.6 KD. Well done.
    You can get that by sitting in a tank shelling a Spawn-room, and doing nothing else but that every few days.
    Or you can get that, by being in the thick of combat, using only a Knife.
    KD by itself, means nothing.

    How good? Apparently better than you. I mean that in a joking fashion.
    But, you know, now you mention scotch.
    Yes, actually try walking like that - IE, no patterns, and you'll be fine.
    Snipers, look for patterns, predict, and fire: You have one, it will be learned, and adapted to.
    This is also what every deadly player learns how to do: Rapid adaption.
  8. Silkensmooth

    Yeah thanks for the tips. Ive been playing this game since release. I know how to attempt to avoid sniper fire. Its not hard to headshot moving targets when you have 5 tries in a row. I rarely snipe and i dont have any trouble with the daimyo which i used today hitting eratic targets cause with extended mag i have 4 tries.

    Again its not really about skill.

    New players arent going to have skill, and getting repeatedly sniped makes a lot of people quit the game.

    The majority of people dont enjoy dying to things they cant see.

    You can argue all you like. Those facts arent going to change.

    No one likes getting sniped.

    You have a game mechanic that a relatively few people enjoy which makes the game at times unplayable for others.

    Anyway, im sure i wont convince you, and thats fine. I prefer that the devs reading this, if they read it, see how many people there are out there who REALLY dont enjoy constantly being sniped.
  9. LordKrelas

    If the target is still in the open, still in the same pattern, and you have a set 5 tries with a single-shot bolt-action..
    That sod is easier to kill with an LMG.
    After the first shot, that sod is well aware of sniper fire, unless moronic or dense, that user either panics, or deliberately becomes evasive - an evasive target is harder than the unaware target.
    If this target can't find cover, for the period of 5 chambered shots... They have 10-15 seconds of sitting in the middle of no-where.

    That Sniper isn't a traditional bolt-action, it is an NSX weapon, that is geared solely for head-shots.
    At actual long-range, it's hilarious -- and every proper bolt is used over it.

    So, that LMG chain-shotting new players the moment they render, at the objectives they are told to go to, is more fun than being possibly shot by a Glass Cannon.
    IE they like bashing their heads into a Wall, over using the normal motions in FPS games against a target that can be one-shot by a pistol.

    The Skill of erratic motion.
    New players aren't gonna have to skill to handle any Good player, with any weapon: And you single out the Sniper.
    Whom is easily countered by terrain, vehicles, lack of sight, random motion, cover, distance even.
    Over the non-sniper, whom is inside your range, firing more accurately, and in some cases is seen as Immortal.

    A Game mechanic:
    Snipers aren't a game mechanic.
    The 'mechanic' is the reward for accurate shots - Rewarding skill.
    Your opponent, dying to this, has an easier counter to the shot, and it requires less work, less practice, and less knowledge than the Sniping shot.

    They see, a dozen people, who dislike an enemy - they see a ton of people explaining the difficulty from both sides.
    And since they released the entire NSX series, which focused on that vet accuracy.. and that very sniper rifle you keep thinking is like any other Bolt..
    I think they are fine with it.
    Let alone, that You don't see many Snipers using that NSX sniper rifle over the traditional bolts.

    The last time I saw, a Dynamo, he was on a roof, missing me from under 100 meters.
    I shot the poor sod in the head with a sidearm.
  10. That_One_Kane_Guy

    I'm going to preface this with the statement that on principle I dislike bringing people's stats into an argument. Typically it is a sign that the opponent has lost the argument and has nothing left but to begin throwing Ad Hominem around like a monkey with feces. There are times, however, when it is appropriate to do so. When a person claims that something is overpowered while simultaneously being completely lackluster with said item according to the stats they clearly offer for all to see, it makes that person a hypocrite. And I do get a certain personal satisfaction from exposing a hypocrite. So here we go:

    This has nothing to do with the number of people you kill, even an incompetent will get a large number of kills if he plays long enough. If you never improve the number of people you kill is less than worthless.

    The only thing your number of sniper kills proves is that proverbs about the broken clocks and mud on a wall aren't wrong.

    Oh to be young and have free time.
    Firstly, you may have several hundred kills with sniper rifles on your TR toon, but you are scraping the bottom end of the tolerance band of the definition of "several".
    Second, if you had gotten experience from the time investment of not just one but two trips to BR100 on alternate toons, I would expect your stats with bolt action rifles, even only over a short period of time, to be nothing short of stellar. They are not.

    According to your stats with bolt action rifles, you don't hit very often and when you do you don't kill very often and when you do it usually isn't a headshot. This is not indicative of a weapons class that is an overpowered slayer of planetmans.

    Instead it seems as though you have eschewed the bolt actions entirely in favor of the Semi-Auto/Burst rifles. No criticisms here, those are fun, skill-based weapons and I enjoy using them, but for your argument on sniper rifle balance they count nothing for you.

    That's wonderful, you killed a couple people in a row with a rifle, either it's the most broken-on-a-stick weapon since the Halo 1 Magnum or you're Simo Heyha. Unfortunately you don't even have your first 100 kills with it yet, and the data suggests that in the limited time you have used it you haven't been remarkably more successful with it than the other rifles in its class. If this isn't confirmation bias at its finest I don't know what it is.

    Also this:

    Is not helping your argument.

    That won't be necessary. You don't.

    On the contrary, I think you know a great deal about how difficult sniping is, which is why you don't.
    Also receiving-end experience alone is not enough to make an argument. I don't know how many times this has been explained on this forum.

    If you want to have a credible argument, use the thing you are complaining about, become proficient with it to show us how OP it is, then we can talk.

    Also as Krelas has pointed out, there is a cornucopia of things in this game that are just as un-fun to be killed by. Not a few of which have a lower skill floor.

    Correct, it is not the hardest thing to do in this game. It is also not the easiest, and again it is far from the cheapest.

    I'm not going to repeat what Krelas has already stated, but the idea that snipers, which are a squishy, precision-based Infantry class, are worse than the other things in this game that can kill you quickly (or even INSTANTLY) with far less options for retaliation is at best amusing and at worst dishonest.

    If that were the case this wouldn't be the only active thread about it on this forum.

    The devs have already done something about it, old Nanoweave used to make sniper rifles worse than useless. It was fixed because snipers were intended to be as they are now. I feel like both the Heavy Assault and the Infiltrator are in a good place right now. The fact that they are the two classes people complain about the most seems to reinforce my theory.

    To be honest, the only thing I don't think you understand is how alcohol works. (You probably don't want to make a habit of confusing a downer for an upper.) Your problem seems to be an unwillingness to take steps to avoid what kills you.

    Please don't be ignorant. K/D by itself is meaningless in this game. Unless you have a high KPM to boot, it is only an indicator at how good you are at not dying.

    Also I'm fairly certain I have made my opinion of my own skill level clear. Playing intelligently is worth a lot more than raw skill.
    • Up x 1
  11. 007iam

    How is this thread STILL active?!?! Like, this thread is more then a year old.


    Snipers are not a problem.
    Bolt actions are not a problem.
    Cloaks are not a problem.
    All these things put together are not a problem.

    This discussion is a problem.
    • Up x 1
  12. Droginos

    I have been an infiltrator for about 5 years now and I still haven't made a 1000 meter shot... The best I have done is around 350 meters and that wasn't an easy shot. A skilled player can always find and kill the infil no matter what they do!
    • Up x 1
  13. utofbu

    infiltrators have a counter tho. Very plain and simple. Infiltrators can counter-infiltrate very well. As a matter of fact, there are only a handful of snipers I cannot beat once I dial in.

    Here is the thing. They force you to adapt, if you refuse to adapt, you die. That is good gameplay imho.

    I playe every class, every faction. The solutions are the same. locate, be smart, use hisor her awareness against them, work an angle and end them, dont let them return, make them go somewhere else. It works pretty much every time.

    I tend to do it with a charge knife, or even battle rifles. Once you get on their back line (if you have motion sensor sheild 5) you can literally end an entire line of snipers in a matter of seconds.

    Why why why do people complain about things that simply require creative adaptation? If you want to play COD, you can play COD.
    • Up x 1
  14. utofbu

    there is one dude on TR in Connery that I may never beat as a sniper, sniper to sniper. because when he has a Rams .50 in his hand, he does what I do. Shoots once, moves over 15 meters, takes another shot, shifts entire angle, goes again. He never stays in the same place. His name is AfroKan I believe. Or AfroKhan. One of the two.

    The only way I get him, is locating his activities, getting close, and putting pressure on his position.

    That is not somehow broken. What that is, is a damn good sniper and I wish I saw more of it. I love that he will actually take me off my horse, I come back and he slaps me from another position. That is just a good sniper. Not broken. If I wanna end him, I gotta get close and my play style adapts.
    • Up x 1
  15. Novius363

    LOL I have to agree entirely with utofbu, There is almost always a counter to something with the exception of the over-buffed libs.
    It's all about being able to adapt to the fight at hand, but most people are so set in their current way that they cannot or will not.
    • Up x 1
  16. utofbu

    Exactly. Non-Linear war is non-linear :)
    • Up x 1
  17. Tasogie

    90% of "snipers" are useless, an of no real threat. They stand on hilltops or on buildings an BANGBANGBANGBANG.... without hitting anything. the few "good" snipers deserve to be.

    As for "learning to infiltrate" lol I do that all day every day an it isn't as easy as that. its very very easy to get killed though.
  18. utofbu

    and as far as risk-free? well.. you try to get a 40 kill spree with a charge-knife, surrounded by 100 enemies and you tell me if that is risk-free lolol.
  19. That_One_Kane_Guy

    I recognize you, you stabbed my VS alt earlier tonight. o7
    • Up x 1
  20. Tasogie

    talking tough in a computer game really isn't very impressive. Someone that thinks their stats mean something really isn't a person to take to seriously.