[Suggestion] Non-Lethal AA Deterrent

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by ColonelChingles, May 12, 2014.

  1. ColonelChingles

    So... seems like pilots are a bit humbled now. With all the "nerf the Liberator" threads, I think that pilots are genuinely afraid that SOE is going to hit them with the nerf hammer. How could SOE not do so, with the mass outrage directed against the air?

    When these pilots come around, it might be time to extend an olive branch. Thus I'm offering a non-lethal/less-than-lethal option that would work in conjunction with the NS-500 SAM and new family of Lightning AA vehicles.

    I present... the NS-MEWSS!


    "MEWSS" stands for Mobile Electronic Warfare Support System. It is the offensive equivalent to the Command Sunderer.

    The NS-MEWSS is non-lethal because it cannot deal a single point of damage (well unless it rams something I guess) with its weapon system. Instead, its primary weapon, the jamming array, can introduce a number of temporary less-than-lethal effects on enemy aircraft. These "stack" with repeated hits, so multiple hits within a short period of time are required to start the most deleterious effects:

    1 hit- Concussion grenade effect on all crew of the vehicle. 3d person view is also disabled.
    2 hits- The above effect plus weapon controls are inverted. All weapon sights (zoom, NV, FLIR, etc) are also disabled.
    3 hits- The above effects plus steering controls are inverted. Movement speed is also reduced by 25%.
    4 hits- The above effects plus weapons are disabled.
    5 hits- The above effects plus engines are disabled.

    The jamming array works on a "heat" mechanic, so repeated firing might "overheat" the jamming array and require a short cooldown. The "projectile" that the array fires is a beam and moves at Lancer speeds. All effects are temporary (lasting 1-2 seconds or longer with certs). New hits must connect before the last effect stops in order to bump up the chain of effects.

    The "gunner" gains G2A assist EXP for each hit (even though no damage is done). If the air target is destroyed while under jammer effects, the "gunner" gains 50% shared EXP. If the air target crashes while under jammer effects, the "gunner" gains full kill EXP. If there are multiple people in the Sunderer at the time, they share all EXP as normal.

    In addition to the main effects of the jamming array, the "gunner" can change firing mode to a direct broadcast system. This allows the "gunner" to essentially beam their proximity chat into the cabin of whatever vehicle they're targeting. This beam is invisible and hit-scan, and can include as content bad music, marriage proposals, and requests for Grey Poupon.

    Finally the NS-MEWSS is also equipped with a short-range engagement radar that highlights all air targets for all friendly units nearby. Because it is slightly more useful than other engagement radars (having characteristics of a proximity radar), it has a shorter range to balance it out.

    The official name comes from the US LAV-MEWSS:


    The nickname comes from the Jaguarundi, which has the benefits of both being a cat (because cats go "mew"! :D) and also starting with "J" for "jammer". "Jaguar" was already taken by the TR small arm.


    So there you have it, a non-lethal AA option. Should leave the pilots (a bit more) happy!
    • Up x 9
  2. Hellryder

    Minus the fact that
    1) "Nonlethal", only it disables a planes engine. Planes without engines tend to crash.
    2) It would be stupidly easy to stack 5 shots on a lib/ESF with lancer velocity(600-800 m/s depending on charge)
    3) Proxy spam is bad enough on my faction. I don't need yours as well.

    This is a weapon that is designed to look unassuming, but is actually quite overpowered.
  3. gd1w

    Actually just have it disable weapons and the ability for the pilot to gain altitude (pressing on the altitude button will only keep them at their current altitude and if they let go of it they'll start descending (they also can't aim upwards to gain altitude). That'll put fear into their hearts.
  4. ColonelChingles

    Huh. You're brighter than you look. ;)

    Sure you might be able to hit an ESF 5 times with a Lancer... but quickly enough so there's only a 1-2 second delay in between hits? This means that you essentially have to make 5 rapid-fire hits on an ESF without missing once... because as soon as you miss once then you'll have to start the chain up all over again.

    And of course because of the heat mechanic on the jammer, you can only really get off 5 shots before you overheat and can't fire anymore until the weapon completely cools down (like a Phalanx turret or the repair tool).

    Additionally the engine disable, like all the other effects, is temporary, and only lasts 1-2 seconds. Not so good if it's a low flying airplane, but for most aircraft who weren't already nose-diving they should have enough time to recover.

    All in all, the idea is that as soon as a pilot is hit the first time, they should immediately understand that it's time to take evasive action and head for home. Maybe (probably) subsequent jamming shots will miss, but most pilots wouldn't want to risk it as the more they get hit the harder it is to evade.

    Which essentially makes it the perfect area denial weapon. :D

    If you want to see a weapon like this in action, just try out BF2142. They had EMP AA missiles which essentially did the same thing (but didn't require 5 consecutive hits, just 1). They weren't OP at all, really.

    I'm not against this idea, but I don't think it's really necessary. A 1-2 second loss of engine power wouldn't be lethal to most aircraft unless they're just really unlucky.
    • Up x 3
  5. lawn gnome

    seems pretty lethal for a "non-lethal deterrent". you do realize that when aircraft lose control they tend to crash and die right?

    i am sure any one of the "pilots" on these forums will tell you that i am almost certainly not on their side, but this seems a bit over the top.
  6. ColonelChingles

    Well like I said, such effects are temporary. BF2142 had multiple weapons with the same effect but were much easier to use (being lock-on missiles), and aircraft in BF2142 were pretty alright with it.

    Not to mention that you'd have to be hit 5 times in a row to end up in that state (BF2142 only required one hit). If a pilot can get hit that many times without figuring out first that they shouldn't be sticking around, then they were probably brain-dead in the first place and would crash without the help of the NS-MEWSS. :p

    So if it was a permanent loss of engine power, I'd agree with you. But a 1-2 second loss for most aircraft shouldn't be lethal in and of itself.
  7. Akashar

    Forget anything else, I want THIS!! Just THIS!!!!!! :eek:
    • Up x 4
  8. ColonelChingles

    In my head the original purpose was to beam warning messages to enemy aircraft. Something like, "Attention unidentified aircraft. You are entering restricted VS airspace. Leave now or you will be fired upon."

    Playing bad music into their ears would be a bit too harsh. :p
    • Up x 1
  9. Foxirus

    Silly rabbit, Planes don't need engines to fly. This is the future, THEY RUN ON RAINBOWS.
    • Up x 1
  10. Akashar

    • Up x 1
  11. MarvinGardens

    I vote to rename it to NS-LOLZ. Best way to troll air! 6-hits should disable parachutes and eject you!
    • Up x 1
  12. lawn gnome

    also it should reprogram your aircraft to aim directly at you while you are falling and fire the nose gun.
    • Up x 2
  13. MarvinGardens

    Maybe it could let them have the safe fall parachute thing, but the plane would instantly lose all momentum and plummet straight down. Right above them. Have it fall close but just out of range of them being able to jump back in. They'll be forced to destroy their own plane or get crushed. Though technically instead of getting crushed they could jump back into the plane once they land...a split second before it hits the ground. :)
  14. lawn gnome

    and explode with it!
    • Up x 1
  15. ColonelChingles

    You guys... hilarious. :D

    I really do think though that there is a role for ECW units in this game. Vehicle recon and detection just feels so off. Infiltrator recon tools are invaluable to infantry fights, and there really ought to be the equivalent for vehicles.
  16. lawn gnome

    i agree that it would be nice, but you are kinda turning ECM into a full blown active weapon. i think we need something a little less targeted and less destructive.
  17. ColonelChingles

    That would be the original Command Sunderer designed for surveillance and countersurveillance. This one is intended to pack a bit more of a punch, at the cost of less utility. Again, it's essentially the offensive variant of the Command Sunderer idea.

    Another thought occurred to me of course. As the NS-MEWSS shoots like a Lancer, there were those complaining that it would be too easy to hit enemy aircraft 5 times in a row.

    But of course the problem is that if the aircraft got hit with an actual Lancer, it would be much worse off.

    An ESF has 3,000 HP and takes an extra 70% damage from Lancers. So a Level 3 charge would result in 1,275 damage within 400m. That's only 3 shots to kill an ESF... while 3 hits from the NS-MEWSS would be non-lethal and just an annoyance. In that sense Lancers are more fearsome to ESFs than the NS-MEWSS is.

    It's actually part of the design that the NS-MEWSS is proportionally more effective against larger aircraft like a Liberator or a Galaxy. A Liberator, with 5,000 HP and a 10% resist, would be able to take 8 Lancer shots to die. Then again the 5 shots from a NS-MEWSS would hardly be a death sentence either.

    So really, the NS-MEWSS is hardly more dangerous than things already in the game, and to top it off it costs resources whereas the equivalent weapon (the Lancer) does not.
  18. lesserbob

    Losing control of craft = lethal. Let not pretend otherwise. Wether you hit a mountain or just fall, or cant judge your even going in a straight line, losing control of aircraft is death.

    But Im not above the principal of electronic warfare. Neutralize them instead of kill them.

    So yes, I think of something like EMP grenades do. Loose hud (target reticule) and any radar services you have. Loose targeting optics(THATS the big one, once you take away thermal, air looses its ability to pick off infantry easily)and reticule. Maybe a second can disable weapons but I prefer to let pilots keep their guns and try their luck at wild fire.

    I firmly believe that the pilot should get a chance to use his skill to counter this, and killing the guns/reversing the controls/killing the engines goes against that. At the end of the day this is a game (hence FUN > Real world comparisons!!!) and the pilot should have a chance against an attack of this nature.

    Now the big question. Why air only? Couldn't this thing be point at a tank? You have shown a definite focus on alternatives for taking down aircraft, but why would this be aircraft only?
    • Up x 1
  19. Demigan

    I like the idea, especially since the effects dissipate fast (1-2 seconds) it can be used pretty well to disorient aircraft and cause them to cancel an attack.

    I do think that the reversal of controls or deactivation of the engines goes to far. Having a slower turn-radius is already far enough penalty if your screen is a blur.

    Perhaps change it to this: first two hits as suggested, 3rd hit disables the vehicle ability as if it's used starting a cooldown. 4 hits forces weapons to reload even when they are full (basicly just forces the weapons to halt a moment).
    • Up x 1
  20. TheBlazing

    To be honest, I can't really see a dedicated, manned jamming unit working in a large-scale multiplayer game. A secondary, yes, a dedicated weapon, no. You would spend 400 mech resources just to get the ability to harass aircraft without damaging them, and once they leave, you have absolutely nothing to do (same problem as the Skyguard), this means that the gunner would need a pretty big reward for his actions, which would most likely making the whole think overpowered and insanely difficult to balance.

    How about a secondary that works like a single-shot "burster" round with an activation radius of 6 meters (instead of 4) and that creates concussion effects and HUD flickering in addition to small damage? The point here is single-shot. If you make a weapon that is only limited by a cooldown mechanic, you are going to end up with players with good aim trolling all aircraft in the area with LSD effects 24/7, which is not a good thinkg. I'd much rather see a more powerful weapon that fires less often, this also complements better with the "fast strikes" tactic that ESFs are supposed to use when attacking the ground (for hoverspammers, there are already bursters).