So 700 certs to carry 2 C4- placing 2 C4 costs 200 resources. C4 is destroyed and resources are lost if you die before setting them off. Placing 2 C4 on any occupied vehicle or vehicle with nearby enemies is often not successful and/ or suicidal. So now, against a STOCK sunderer you cannot destroy it with a 700 cert option that costs 200 resources to use. So if there is 1 enemy nearby the sunderer you will often find that you are simply wasting your resources to feed the enemy repair certs. Anyway I can unlock a 3rd C4 block for 1000 certs? Because if this is never going to be an option then a far more preferable way to handle the above situation would be to loadout with 4 medpacks and just sit nearby the sunderer and farm the enemies popping out- it will be infinitely more rewarding than wasting resources and waiting to respawn just to feed cheap XP to the enemy. I know, lets take one of the least played and least rewarding classes (the only class without a tool) and lets make the ability they have not allow them to fight back effectively, then we will make the ability loud enough that it is a further liability and gives people who play the class for an extended period of time a headache, then we will nerf the only uniquely useful utility of the class while we push the revamp for this class back to unscheduled. If this makes the majority of the community happier than who am I to say it is a bad thing but personally the last several months have just made me feel like my interests in the game and what I like to do in it are underappreciated and put on the back burner. I do not necessarily blame SOE but I can no longer justify continuing a subscription for a game where the enjoyment has been on such a regular decline- of course, this change is not the only contributing factor as everyone tends to get burned out after playing the same game for extended periods of time. I'm sure I will still play from time to time and who knows maybe even start my subscription again sometime in the future but for now and for me personally I can no longer justify continued financial support when each time I log in to play I enjoy the game less and less.
We are talking about a STOCK sunderer- a sunderer with 0 certs spent. We are comparing this to someone who spent 700 certs and 200 resources for every ATTEMPT to take out a STOCK sunderer. You are not gauranteed success on even getting within C4 range of the vehicle, let alone having the time to drop both blocks and then detonate them and we are not talking about a sunderer that has a reasonable amount of certs spent on upgrades. We are also talking about nerfing a utility that is the only offensive utility offered to an assault class that is one of the least used and least rewarding classes to use in the entire game. If an entire attack hinges on one stock sunderer you are doing it wrong. If you are not guarding your sunderer and expecting it to survive you are doing it wrong. If you get a ton of XP from "farming" sunderers then why is the LA the second least scoring class in the game? There are two ways to get a ton of XP from a sunderer; 1) destroy a fully loaded sunderer or 2) do not destroy the sunderer and farm the people coming out of it. If you can destroy a fully loaded sunderer with 1 LA then you deserve the kill because you have AT LEAST two gunners who can gun you down, a sunderer that could run you over, and 9 other enemies that could pop out instantly and shoot you dead. All I see is more incentive as a LA to loadout with 4 medpacks, find that stock deployed sunderer and sit in a nearby tree farming all the people who spawn- more of that kind of activity is just all that more likely to lead to more whine threads about LA and further LA nerfs because it is relatively easy to launch a compaign against one of the least played classes in the game.
I fail to see why the LA is one of the least rewarding classes, nor how "the ability they have not allow them to fight back effectively". Somehow a lot people seem to think the only thing that an LA is good for is flying overheard and dropping C4 on Sundy's. Or MAXs. That's it? That is the main reason people play LA? Well lets just delete LA from the game. I mean if you can't solo kill a stock Sundy what is the point of any class? Infil should go as well. Medic too, since they are in the same boat as they use C4. Oh right, medics heal you, so we have to keep them. They serve another purpose. Infil's too, because they can hack. LA does nothing except C4 sundies, so they can go. I mean what else are they good for? C4'ing MAXs? Getting to awesome flanking/overwatch spots? Naw, if they can't C4 and kill a stock Sundy I say delete them from the game. Good riddance.
I'm referring to score per hour- the average and median score per hour for LA is among the lowest with certain classes like HA and Engineer averaging between 10-20% higher and those two classes along accounting for over 50% of the play time. While airborn, every weapon for the LA recieves a significant multiplier on COF values- what this means is that if you stand 20m away from a wall you can watch the often extreme and random angle of the projectile leaving the barrel. This effect is particularly noticeable if you equip a laser sight. Now, since this effect is random that means that no amount of time spent practicing or skill will ever increase your ability to shoot while airborn beyond this effect- yes, SMGs in CQC and shotguns if you are dropping on someone can work sometimes but only when the target is so close as to occupy a large portion of the screen. I understand perfectly why the LA needs a significant handicap in terms of airborn gunplay and I agree with having a real drawback to airborn gunplay. I know people say it is difficult to hit a flying LA but even if the there was no airborn handicap it would be equally difficult for the LA to return fire due to relative motion being equal. We need to limit the ability of the LA to fire while airborn for sure, however, the current mechanic is laughable and means that when you are airborn you are often a more obvious target and are often simply not capable of fighting back. A far better solution, IMO, would be a severe recoil multiplier instead because 1) you could make it large enough that no amount of skill would remove a real disadvantage to shooting while airborn while 2) creating a much larger skill gap among LAs in terms of their individual ability to mitigate- though not remove- this handicap and at the same time 3) look and feel far better from a gameplay perspective 4) provide incentive to practice a difficult and hopefully still risky but fun activity with the added bonus of 5) being far more realistic (you being airborn has no effect on the weapons ability to release a projectile out of the barrel but has significant impact on your ability to control the force of the recoil since you cannot distribute the force into your stance). Absolutely not, the main reason I play LA is because it allows you to move around the map a little easier and since there is a lot of time spent just getting from point A to B it makes this time more entertaining. Second to that is that it is pretty neat to fly around in a futuristic space shooter like some futuristic space bounty hunter financing his vet. However, while jetpacks are fun and do have a lot of utility so do the other classes as evidenced both their popularity and the ability of those classes to progress. As of yet, the LA is still the only class without a tool and herein lies a big part of the importance of C4 to the LA because while not a tool and not unique to LA it does share a unique interaction with the LA ability that does render it more effective in the hands of a LA than any other class. Moreover, LA is one of only two assault classes in the game where two other classes- HA and Engineer- both enjoy better AV options and the only solid AV option for LA is shared with everyone but infiltrators. My apologies if what you took from what I remarked is that the LA is worthless without C4- that was not my intention. In fact, I mentioned one of many alternatives to dealing with a sunderer aside from C4 and remarked on how all this change really does is make those options more attractive. IMO, I do not think this is such a great thing because as a LA I feel this will tend to incentivize a) playing as HA or Engineer more often to deal with sunderers and thereby increasing the play time of the two already most played classes, b) pulling more vehicles to deal with vehicles in a game where a lot of people already complain about the quantity and frequency of vehicles, c) orient LA more towards ignoring vehicles in favor or trying to farm the infantry spawning from them or supporting them than they already are, and d) generally diminish the incentive to rush out into or behind enemy lines as a class who's expressed purpose is to separate from the bulk of the assault and rush the enemy. As I said before, if this change does benefit the overall community then who am I to say it is a bad thing. I am only voicing my opinion and I can understand if you disagree, particularly if you do not have much invested in the LA class, and I do not hold it against you. I do have some concern that those who are LA loyalists make up one of the smaller minorities in the game and so will probably not have a lot of influence over the course of the game- this is understandable of course and necessary as the good of the majority is better overall for the game but it is something we should try to recognize. No worries mate, I mean you no harm and if I came across as sounding like the sky was falling then that was my mistake.
Thats ********, what the hell are you talking about? Are you talking about a driving or a deployed sunderer? We were talking about deployed sundies, and now you're mixing things up, because you know you're wrong. And thats why I'm ending this discussion, cba to explain the world to some confused random forum geek.
I suppose this is straying from LA discussion, because LA can only potentially do two C-4 on a Flash, then resupply for another two (and of course you must detonate pre-existing C-4 on target otherwise it'd be a waste). You can still do this without the cloak, as LA but with just dual C-4 + 2 (just like old times), but they can see you a mile away. Wraith Cloak "Love" Flash: Flash cooldown, higher levels the better. +1000 Certs. Wraith Cloaking Module. Fully Upgraded. 2100 Certs. Vehicle Stealth, Level 1. 10 Certs. Flash Scrapper Chassis, max. 700 Certs. M40 Fury, stock is fine. 1000 Certs/700 SC. Engineer Utility Pouch, Level 3. 1100 Certs. Engineer C-4, Dual unlocked. 700 Certs. I'm currently working on unlocking the final C-4 on my Engineer, but other than Blockade Sundies three C-4 is enough to instantly blow them up. I admit it's simpler for a willing Engineer join you in the backseat for this suicide run instead of strapping explosives beforehand, but also note that AP mines near you go off immediately when exiting the Flash, so staying on the Flash and letting the Fury set off strapped C-4 when you're parked right next to it is the most guaranteed way. Also right after I blew up their Sunderer they pulled another two, parked one in the same spot.
Ever since that sound **** on the JJ I find myself walking way more than I'm actually flying. If that's what I'm going to be doing anyways, then why not just play HA which in my opinion is OP cz they can 1v1 kill any other class and also kill vehicles/aircrafts. People who think that LA are a lot more useful than just killing sundies fail to realize that they made this **** harder for us to use LA in other ways after GU07. I used to use LA before for mainly killing people. After the JJ sound, I used it for mainly taking out vehicles and sundies and maxes. Now I come to find that you can't ******* take out sundies with 2 C4s' + underbarrel gun both of which combined I spent about 1000 certs on. Taking out sundies was the only reason I used my UB gun anyways cz other than that it sucks at killing people. Also to salt to the injury, yesterday I realized I couldn't kill a ****** Max that was 2m away from the C4? I was like WTF? I had to shoot him down with 7 more bullets to kill him and right after that I got shot down. People fail to realize how long it takes to get to a good position to get some kills and that's why it's not a very rewarding class. People also fail to realize that 25% of our XP comes from vehicles and sundies killing.
See I never said that numbers = zerging. You assumed that. Teamwork is coordination of any number of players. Zerging is charging randomly across the map with any number of players or swarming objectives with no need or use of any form of coordination. Basically. Teamwork = Coordination Zerging = No Coordination Spawning a sunderer and people clicking on the icon on the map is not coordination. If you honestly believe it is, then I'm not really surprised. Also, since you like to assume things: I'm not saying sunderers can't be used with coordination, I'm saying they typically aren't.
I don't get all the people saying "well time to retire the Light Assault" I still use it AND the single brick of C4 I have to great effect. So I can't kill any heavy vehicle outright. This isn't a problem. I can still get it to retreat, force players to repair it, and generally cause some A-grade chaos. I'm more effective hunting Sunderers with the M-40 fury on my flash anyways.
Unless you are on the same faction as the Sundy driver, and in communication with him, how do you know he isn't part of a team? How do you have ANY idea who is or isn't part of a team? Because they don't have an outfit tag? None of my characters on Waterson are in an outfit, Yet I squad up with the same 7 friends all the time. You would have NO way of knowing whether I am zerging, or using teamwork. The only way you would know is if you were in my squad. So don't look at someone in game and presume to know anything about them. The only things you know about them are their name and faction, and class if your observant. Too many people simply see a large force and assume it's nothing but a mindless zerg. You know for a small outfit, it's not a bad idea to use a zerg for cover if the zerg happens to be going the same way as you. Roll along for a few mins, then scoot off on your own way. I don't care whether a sundy spawns 12 guys, or 300. As an opposing faction member, you know nothing about them, other than the fact they are enemy.
I haven't unlocked C4 on any class yet. Engy + sticky nade + 2 tank mines still kills sundies in a few seconds flat since no-one ever uses mineguard. Engy's problem is getting close enough, but smoke launcher or an ESF (ideally with ejector seat), or any vehicle to jump out of and draw the enemy's fire while you mine it can do the job. This will probably be changed too. I'll be surprised if it doesn't. LA is far from dead. It can put a sundy into a state where a single hit will finish it off, and no other class is better equipped to get close enough to do that.
Speaking of presumptions, you keep making them. I'm not a solo player. I'm a member of the 666th Devil Dogs which is one of the largest outfits in this game as well as one of the more organized outfits. None of what I said is relevant to this discussion, though. Not a bit of what you said is, either. I pointed out how sunderers are very easily used solo but can be used for teamwork. They're self support machines that are jack-of-all trades. Right now I could log in and drive my sunderer to a populated front and it will start ******** out infantry. I've done nothing along the line of coordination to achieve that. Your complaint is sunderers are blown up too easily by C4 and tank mines? I say ha. I say you don't know what teamwork is because if you did you'd know how to properly place and guard your sunderers as a team. We don't have a whole ton of trouble losing our sunderers in the 666th, we guard them and keep backups. When we aren't guarding them properly they explode, and rightfully so. By the way this isn't a presumption. This is a conclusion of all of your replies to me.
In short, you imagined me saying some things that I never said. Replied to those imaginary things, and made a fool of yourself by doing so. Oh, and trying to awe me with your second rate outfit, sad mate, simply sad. 666th could have stayed on the same server as TE, but after getting wrecked so many times, they fled. So when you join an outfit than can go toe to toe with the Enclave, then you can brag about them. Till then..................shush............back of the bus..........that's a good boy.....
Damn, I guess I was wrong about you the other day when I said you weren't arrogant about your outfit. He wasn't even bragging or anything and you reacted the same way the other players from TE act. What's even worse is you were acting as if your outfit being better than his has an impact on the points he was making relative to the subject of this thread. That's pretty stupid.
Ok you go ahead and cause your chaos while the rest of the classes keep gaining a lot more xp than you and advance to higher levels and buy better weapons/tools before you and hopefully when you come face to face with them, they'll kill you with their better weapons. You keep on enjoying causing your chaos. You do great teamwork. I'm proud of you. PS: The Durandal, Marathon series quote is pretty epic. Maybe I should read that book. Also if you are interested in sci fi books, then you should read Neverness and Manifold time. Those two are amazing mind openers.
I think I understand what their plan is. They are trying to nerf LA slowly every patch until no one plays it anymore. Then they'll just remove this class from the game and everyone will stop whining about them.
If this class was OP like everyone used to say, A LOT more people would be playing it. This would be the most played class instead of being 2nd most least played.
This needs to be emphasised. How can a class, in a game where class change is one button away, be overpowered and underplayed at the same time? In a MMO(FPS)?
Normally, unless it's a thread that is specifically about my server or my outfit, I don't even mention my outfit. But when he said this.. Then yeah I'm going to say something. Neither me nor my outfit have any issues with sunderers. How he came to figure that I or my outfit had an issue with that is beyond me, as I never said a word about it. He somehow got the idea I was complaining about losing Sundies, or that they could be killed by C4. Which is something I wasn't complaining about in the least. Specific outfits had no place in this discussion, and I was happy to leave them out of it. I'm a fairly nice guy normally, but bring outfits into a discussion, and it's on. Comes with being a member of the best and most talked about outfit in the game
I'm going to pretend this post doesn't exist because I realized that I initially typed here has nothing to do with this topic. Carry on. Fair enough, my mistake. I read over his presumptions.
