No Bullet Drop for VS, is it enough?

i loled
there are 2 stats that determine wether or not a weapon is "forgiving for mistakes"
DPM and RoF
TR have both
NC have the first
VS have the second
damage per mag allows you to miss more and still keep shoting untill you either die or kill your enemy
RoF allows you to miss and not lose as much DPS aslong as you still have ammo and are not dead or killed your enemy
So DPM and RoF synergize really well
DPM alone is quite good at ambushing or fighting against noobs
RoF alone still requires you to keep a minimum of accuracy to not run dry and lose all your DPS
thats also the reason why the Serpent/GD7F is basicly a 1mag=1kill weapon, the Orion is so good because it's a normal TR weapon with another 10bullets in the mag and the merc/Pulsar C are quite good CQC weapons despite looking like they are long range

Oh dont get me wrong, the 200 dps weapons arent fantastic but they have the best TTK if you can aim for the head. Theyre also pretty good at a range for the most part.

And yes, there are plenty of user friendly VS weapons too. Some that come to mind are the semi-auto snipers, our infiltrators can make use of them if theyre new and just learning the game and the Nyx is no doubt the best scout rifle at range. The orions also pretty user friendly, not overpowered or because of 0.75 ADS but its smaller magazine size and relatively fast reload teaches trigger discipline. There are also user friendly TR weapons, like almost every carbine/AR with more room for error in extra bullets, the vulcan-H, the repeater is the best burst pistol simply because its free, the list can go on. For the NC i dont play NC that much, and i didnt even before i quit, but the free BASR, and higher raw damage starters are helpful in some way to newer players trying out infiltrator and the higher raw damage means less bullets to kill, providing a similar effect to the TRs extended mags, where misses while they hurt you wont cripple you as long at you hit 6 times with a mercinary compared to 7 with the other ES starter carbines. Not a big difference, but a noticeable one. Also the lower ROF helps in full auto ADS giving a more manageable verticalrecoil and making burst firing only a few rounds easier.

No bullet drop isn't much, but it doesn't really matter to me. I'd rather we have some quasi-symbolic benefit like this than something more tangible, and therefore questionable.

I do just well, if not better with the NS-15M as i do with the Ursa, better with the NS-11A than i do with Corvus/CME...even in circumstances where i have to factor bullet drop in. Haven't played the Pulsar C/Solstice for some time so i can't say compared to the NS-11C.

I've auraxed Eidolon, Nyx and Vandal a few weeks ago, and honestly i couldn't sense much difference between Nyx and Vandal. The only shots where the drop matters are easy shots on static newbie snipers, very easy to home in with or without drop, you just adjust to it and easy kill ensues.
Neither BRs or SA scouts are made for shooting at ranges where the drop matters either way, that's sniper rifle territory (played all of them with sights, not scopes).

The only case where it matters, in my opinion, are suppressed guns, as at 300m/s it makes a difference when you're firing close to min damage range. Then again would you aim a lot for 50m-far targets with such pistol-like velocity? For that you need newbies too: the kind that tends to stop in its tracks when being shot at, or even kneels down to make for an easier target.

Its not just bullet drop, VS = versatility and no drop is part of that. Floating tanks able to traverse terrain a prowler/vanguard can only dream of, a selection of 0.75 ADS LMG (TR have none), heat mechanic so who cares about ammo in places where often TR/NC would run out and ofc that no drop thing which isnt on all weapons but it helps noob snipers and clip distance PPA is just annoying.

TR get....dakka? and larger clips...great, not. Dakka is just a sound!! Almost all high ROF weapons have a lower damage profile meaning actual raw DPS at max/min ranges are the same or less than other factions, (only one AR has a slight DPS advantage). Also with the larger mags TR get much longer reload times again ironing out any advantage plus traditionally have more side recoil jitter meaning less accuracy wasting some of those extra bullets too.

Now TR do have a prowler with a good DPS, and MAX lockdown does give a slight boost but have to give up all mobility to use it! Not so magburn, and what do VS give up for heat? The 0.75 LMGs dont appear to give up anything as they are among the best in the game...I could go on.

Even NC retain some of their power factor...an ESRL which actually works, alpha strike capability of 200 damage platform weapons, scatmax, damn ravens...but I wont go into that here.

So when people talk about VS getting no drop thats only part of the story.

You are aware that the magdriver has poorer results than the prowler in-game, that the heat mechanics weaken the overall DPM for an hypothetical advantage if you run out of ammo before your get killed, that no BASR get the no-drop trait and that since the nerf, the PPA is one of the lowest performance tank weapon?

Yes, 0.75 ADS is nice. Everything else is just a poor pretext for people that don't truly use them to whine about their opponent.

yes I am aware, and im also aware as soon as differences are spotlighted people crawl out of the woodwork trying to justify them with all sorts of non facts and irrelevant attributes..im not concerned about arguing nor getting lost in smokescreening the real issues.

If you dont like how I see it, get some data and quote it otherwise please keep the insults out of it, its unnecessary and not going to make me debate them more, im just going to ignore you from here on in, thank you.

I dunno, that's a bit of a myth IMO, the NC6 SAW definately is, but the AC-X11, for example, is much more a good midrange weapon than a long range carbine (the Razor is much, much better at long range).

It's just that people seem to concentrate on only the bullet drop trait, where as VS weapons tend to actually have other potential advantages as well.

I mean yes the NC starter Sniper rifle is good, but the best NC sniper rifle (or that type) is the Longshot by far and every faction has a copy.

RoF and extra ammo certainly can be advantages, but that is largely balanced (in Carbines at least) with more jitter (left/right horizontal recoil) for TR - I actually think Carbines show good faction balance and factional difference, with TR and NC at either end and the VS in the middle..... which does squeeze the VS a bit, but not really in any way to complain about. I mean there is nothing major to complain about with starter carbines for example.

That's simply not true. A sweet handling weapon can (and regularly does) out perform its raw DPM/RoF.

This is likely why the Lynx 2.0 performs so well against the Serpent/GD7F (its RoF is higher, but DPS & DPM less).

Let's stop the ******** right here. You hit something with the Ursa because it's an accurate weapon, not because of anything related in any way to the bullet drop.
To say you get a kill because of the no-bullet drop is like to say lightning strike because of magic or other crappy superstitions. It's a lazy excuse for people who don't know the actual causes and don't look further.
No bullet drop was useless from day 1, is still useless today, and will always be until the game dies. Even if we had it on bolt action it would be useful only to very new players who don't know yet that they can aim 1mm higher to compensate every possible drop. (And I believe a game should be balanced around experienced players, not around scrubs.)
On carbine, smg, ar, lmg and pistol it has realisticly zero impact.

you know... how forgiving a weapon is, is not the only stat in the game... it just sets a skillfloor...

Yeah right, 75+ meters away and not compensating for bullet drop is just because it's an accurate weapon? Bullsh-.
In the situation I had in mind it was the absence of bullet drop that was important (or at least as important as the accuracy) since I just had to aim at the head and press the trigger, no need to aim higher like I have to with the NS-15M at such distances.

I didn't say bullet drop is enough of a thing to make a faction trait, especially when it's taken away from most weapon where it could be useful, but saying it's plain useless is wrong to me. But honestly, are we, VS, complaining about the lack of faction trait about our weapons? I'm pretty happy with our arsenal right now tbfh.

With a bolt action with similar bullet velocity i don't need to compensate the drop until around 150 meters. So at 75m it is unlikely to matter. And one could argue that if you shot something with an lmg at distance where the drop matters, then you just have the wrong weapon/class.
I am not complaining our weapons underperform in any way. I am just noticing that we have no useful faction "spirit" on most of ours weapons. We basically have NC weapons with a purple skin.

Don't you think you are a bit unfair here?
You didn't provide more data or proof than I did, why should I be the one smokescreening or insulting the other?
If someone did, you did it first.

But let's proceed forward, here are some data you requested:

- NO BASR get the no-drop trait (source: http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Sniper_Rifles )
- Magdriver has three time the "suicide" count of the Vanguard (source: http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthly-vehicle-deaths )
- Magdriver is not performing better than the two other tank (same source, look at the weapons that kill other MBTs: everytime a VS weapons appear on the list, there is a NC/TR weapon of the same kind just above)
- TR/NC have better weapons than the PPA against vehicles (source: http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=vkph&weapon1=3404&weapon2=4029&weapon3=3704 )
- TR/NC have better weapons than the PPA against infantry too (source: http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kph&weapon1=3404&weapon2=4007&weapon3=3707 )
- No-drop and heat performance are much harder to provide with numbers, but let's take for exemple a weapon that can get the best of the two: the Phaseshift (both a very long range weapon and a weapon used by the class having the hardest time to get ammo) => It's not performing better than the NC alternative, and way weaker TR alternative (source: http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kph&weapon1=7337&weapon2=7301&weapon3=7316 )

That's not new data. It has been posted again and again and again, but evertime, every week, every month, someone like you come and start badmouthing the VS players on behalf of things they didn't even check first on the forum.

That's tiresome, truly. And this is coming from someone that never used PPA, Magdriver, no-drop, heat or 0.75 ADS, so someone who has no reason to defend himself.
My main weapon is a ******* Spiker.
... and before you start to say "OMG it's OP, it's a pistol with splash damage!", here is the data: http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kph&weapon1=7414&weapon2=7391&weapon3=7379

I can perhaps listen you about 0.75 ADS or base camo of the VS. Everything else is garbage when you check the numbers.

I think the question should be: are we, VS, feeling there is only one reason to keep that useless trait ?

Oh, yeah, Phaseshift. Mmm that could be an exception, instead of a trait.

Are you implying our bolts have no bulletdrop?

Which directly effects its performance in-game, more than any skill ceiling generally (because most players aren't cyborgs from the future).

No, I think he is implying that the other guy getting a headshot at 75 m with a long rang lmg wasent exactly a hard thing to do even with drop. Which is true, since I can regualy pull that off with other factions weapons

If anything youre trying to imply is that no bullet drop is more important than damage per second, damage per magazine, raw damage per shot, horizontal shake, ADS spread and hipfire spread, than somethings wrong with this thought process.

Orion has a worse horizontal jitter than the CARV, same DPS as a Trac-5 and T1 Cycler, 1430 more DPM to make an example.

Hell, the Eridani the VS SMG is basically an orion with 15 fewer bullets, but the fastest reload of any SMG in the game, and access to SPA.

None of these things are good due to bulletdrop or lackthereof. The Eridani is good because its the only weapon the VS have that make use of whats supposed to be fast reload trait and its attachments. The Orion is kind of meh in my opinion, i think its numbers are skewed by use.

Ah fair enough. must have misread it. but yes, on almost every gun in the game at 75m every gun will get a headshot if youre aiming at them since bulletdrop is so nil until about 125+, even then its only a slight aim adjustment.

Er.... no I'm implying nothing of the sort.

I am saying that along with no bullet drop (which is a so-so ability as best on the weapons it exists for) that all of the above are also competitive or very user friendly on many VS weapons, something that cannot be ignored (no matter how studiously people try - annoying people like me will always bring it up again! ).

If by worse you mean almost the same, but actually very slightly better.

Although I wouldn't say the Carv is exactly a great example as it is not only one of the most underated weapons in the game, but it also is very user friendly at anything but longer ranges.

Which NC weapon are good because of high damage per bullet?