New Striker TTK Comparison between different launchers:

One-Clip a Flash is fair enough, but that change can be done with some Resistance value changes. And really, the inability to oneclip a flash is not really a big problem anyways, a lot of TR are just angry because they THINK it represents its damage output, but it really doesn't. Just like they got angry that the BRRT attachment was originally called the FART attachment. It really doesn't matter, people just get offended by it.

The thing is, if you buff up the damage by 20%, then the Striker will be able to shoot down an ESF with 2 clips. And for a solo user that's fine, but you need to account for spammability. If every 2 TR Heavys with a Striker can instakill every nearby ESF with uncounterable missiles, then you're starting to get close to the no-fly zones the first striker created.

And since the Striker is a pretty reliable, (although a bit weak atm,) all-around launcher, this also means that more people will be carrying it compared to the niched Phoenix and a little niched Lancer, forcing SOE to account for spammability more.

Imo, SOE should not make a whole lot of changes to the Striker right now before they release it on Live. That way, they can slowly buff it up if needed. The worst thing that happens, is that the TR have to wait a bit longer for aa good striker. The worst thing that happens if they bufff it, is aanother Striker apocalypse screwring over the NC and VS airgame entirely.

Could maybe instead increase RoF a bit to obtain a similar DPS increase but minimize the front load. Just really that a Flash surviving a full salvo feels kinda wrong, and I think just a 5-10% increase would fix it because it barely survives. I'd also like to see the TTK on vehicles and other targets brought in just a little, so damage rather than RoF performs both.

Aircraft do get a bit of a warning in that it takes time to dump the entire 5 shots, letting them pull off after 2-3 have hit. Also, flares DO counter the homing feature so again, you'll only take a couple rockets before being able to pull away. You would have no warning if a dozen people hit you at the same time so you couldn't pop flares, but at that point they could have likely just used small arms to do the same.

The way to balance AA is typically by the effective range rather than the damage. If Striker's effective AA range is only around 100m due to velocity/homing it shouldn't clear the skies unless you have ESFs that are infantry farming, and even then they can stay between 200-300m and be fine. In a Lib you usually stay between 500-700m to hit vehicles while being immune to infantry AA. In general we want the counter to outreach the thing it counters, but Striker is a bit of a special case since it blurs the lines of dumb fire rockets so effective range being less than infantry render is fine, not asking for that at all.

I don't think 10% damage is enough to match the 450m-range-front-loaded-damage-spike-that-glitches-through-terrain-Striker-oh-and-flares-are-broken-now of release. Not that it should even come close, mind you. I absolutely agree that only slight tweaks need to be done to the Striker, and seeing how it performs on Live Server is the only way it's going to be exactly correct.

The Striker 3.0 is going to be incredible vs close combat Aircraft, specifically the ESF's and Valkyries. I think the real power in this weapon is going to be for close to mid range engagements, where its a mix of Ground and Air vehicles and maxes.

I see it being a real asset defending towers from the Air Pads or ledges, it's going to be strong vs most air threats, especially if there are a few of them or even a burster in the area, while at the same time be good at firing down on vehicles and Maxes. This technique should work well on base walls and really any building where you can use the terrain as cover or to gain the high ground. If you are going to be on the ground slugging it out vs tanks, the Deci is just going to be better, but if its a mix of ground and Air, then I can see its flexibility to hit both being a real asset.

I can also see this being an awesome weapon to use in and around sunderers. If an ESF gets in close and at least 3 players swap to the striker 3.0, that ESF is going to get wasted in seconds, with the proxy lock-on its going to be a very forgiving weapon vs Air targets, something that can not be said about the lancer and especially the Phoenix, which is all but worthless vs Air.

The thing is it is going to be a fairly versatile weapon, not really excelling at any one role, but rather being a more jack of all trades. I know as a NC I would gladly drop the Phoenix for this new weapon in a heart beat. The Phoenix is just way to niche to ever consider it in a default load out, something i would not say about the lancer and even this new striker.

Realistically... the only thing it has to be a real "Versatility" upgrade from.... is the Grounder / Hawk, IE: that 250 cert Lockon Launcher that can dumbfire at stuff and does 1000 dmg per reload. It looks like that's exactly what SOE's trying to do as their TTK's are almost identical. So the only trade-off they really need then for ground targets.... is for it to lock on really fast to ground targets and not deal too much self-damage to the user when some of those rockets hit terrain right next to the user. Lockons have a really annoying tendency to shoot wide of your reticle simply because the target started accelerating in that direction. It's a complete exaggeration of the Vectors it actually needs to be fired at to still intercept that Target and I wish they'd address it for ALL LAUNCHERS in one of their QOL passes.

i don't actually understand the purpose of this thread.

this is your only info on how you got your TTK values

if you did it in VR training, on standing targets, while you just stood still you will only get theoretical values, with a 100% accuracy which rarely happens ingame.

the lancer has a high velocity, the phoenix can compensate during flight, the striker can't. this is why you will not always hit all 5 rockets - as you will not always hit every single shot with the other ESRLs. but you can't ignore the average accuracy if you want to get a realistic TTK. which is why you need to test it in actual combat.
esp. air and fast moving vehicles will get different TTKs this way.

you also need to do multiple runs to get an average TTK for each weapon and vehicle to reduce the value spread and errors. did you?

what do you want to tell us with TTK anyways? that the striker can kill certain targets as fast as lancer and phoenix and so it must be balanced?!

what about this:

it takes 29 hits to kill a vanguard with the new striker. this is more ammo than a HA can carry without munitions pouch (25 rockets). the lancer takes 24 hits and the phoenix 5, which both can carry.
same happens with a lib. max ammo capacity of the striker isn't enough to kill it, lancer and phoenix can do it.
same with a gal. no one can kill it w/o munitions pouch. lancer and phoenix can kill it with munitions pouch, striker can't.

does this sound ok for you?

what is the point here? that some people said "FART sounds stupid (which it does), please give it another name", how is that bad?!

again the problem with your assumed 100% accuracy. someone actually tested it and...well, read it yourself

doesn't sound like the superweapon you think it is

That is the only info necessary.

Obviouslyy. I am measuring TTK. That is how you measure TTK. It should not need to be explained and nobody else out of the hundreds of people who have read these values have had the need to have it explained for them. Only you.

Yes it can. That is what the Coyote mechanic is there for.

That is not how you test TTK. TTK is Mathematical. What you are talking about is combat efficiency and it's two completely different things.

No, you will not hit all 5 rockets. But at the same time, if you just miss 2, you still hti 3. If you miss one single rocket with the other launchers, it's the equivalent of missing 5 Striker shots.

No? Once again, you do not know how TTK is measured. There is no Average, because it's all mathematical. The TTK willl always be 19 seconds against ESFs, and no matter how many tests i do that will not change.

I have never said that, and you really should read the thread before spurting out assumptions. I measured TTK and TTK only.

No it doesn't. You are straight up lying despite the fact that the exact numbers are posted in the very OP of the thread you are posting in. The Phoenix takes 6 rockets and the Lancer 27 or 45. Both of which require ammunition pouch to carry that much ammo.

A Maxed out Munitions pouch was used in these tests and at no point did i need to get more ammo to destroy the Vanguard. The Striker, with maxed pouch, gets 45 rockets.


You are, as i said, Straight up lying.

The point is in the comment that you replied to. Read it again.

Again, that is how TTK is measured. You are literally the only one who doesn't understand this.

That's all fine and dandy Ztiller, but if a PPA Scythe can out-repair the damage of 3 Striker missiles (and I assure you the average would be much less than 3 out of 5 hitting) and kill its proxy-locking aggressors, then what is the purpose of using the Striker? Is its intended niche to only kill brain-dead pilots? "In groups the benefits stack", you say. Yea, a big enough group of Spiker users can down an ESF in seconds.

that cant be right, stock dumbfires have a reload of 5.2+0.3 refire for a 5.5s fire cycle, 7 shots is 6 reloads, that should be ~33 seconds+one travel tiem. for the lancer 27 ammo is 9 full charge shots, 3 seconds per charge is 18 seconds, and 4 reloads at 5.5 each (22 seconds), 18+22=~40s

you can maybe ad a few seconds for scoping out but shouldnt be enouph to knock the actual up from the theoretical by 12+ seconds.

I would run your tests again

An ESF also requires 3 G2A lockon rockets to die, while any AI ESF can kill the infantry before the first reload. Unless your argument is that the Striker should be the best AA in the game I'm not sure what you're saying here. The Striker certainly has less range and requires more skill to hit air, but it compares fairly well with the default launchers.

It requires 2 G2A lock-on missiles to kill an ESF provided they don't have fire suppressor, 10 Striker missiles, and no I don't think Striker should be the best AA in the game. The problem is that its current intended role is to be decent as AA, yet the accuracy it has on moving ESFs is so bad that you would be better off using any other launcher except the Phoenix. The TTK of the Striker is identical to that of a G2A lockon, but with much worse accuracy. I see no benefit to using it because ESFs are not going to stand still and take more than 1 Striker round before flying away. I would rather at least deal 50% damage with a G2A lock-on or even set it on fire with a Decimator.

A Lancer has practically the same damage potential against hovering ESFs with the ability to also be the longest-range AV weapon in the game and have higher alpha damage than the Striker.

If you don't believe me, then you are free to conduct these tests yourself. They are done by measuring the time from when i first clicked down the mouse, to when the target exploded in the VR.

no it takes the lock ons to kill an esf, not 2. Fire supression/flares can take it to 4. And a decimator will one shot an esf.

2 G2A set an ESF on fire, same as the 10 rounds from PTS Striker.

I do think the Striker gives up a bit too much, though. Compared to the G2A launcher it's not quite as good against air, offers an interesting tradeoff of alpha strike for effective range against armor, but then is abysmal for anti-infantry and MAX work.

ztiller, you missed the most important word of my whole post REALISTIC TTK, not paper TTK. i never said your numbers are wrong or you did it wrong. i said that paper TTK is a useless stat for balancing. all it gives you is:

in a perfect world with perfect conditions you could theoretically kill a target in an assumed time of XY or maybe not.

what i called 'realistic TTK' is the time it realistically takes to kill, taking average accuracy into account. this can be used to argue about balancing. paper TTK can't be used, as it will not give you any meaningful info on the performance or balance of the striker.

on a side note:
you messured TTK or you calculated it? big difference. did you test it (which means you have to do multiple runs, cause you won't e.g. always messure the time exactly) or just calculate it using the stats (distance, muzzle velocity, acceleration, refire time, reload speed, damage, damage drop, hitpoints, armor and resist values)?

i said the stiker can't compensate like the phoenix.
1. coyote works only on air targets (which means not on infantry, MAXes and ground vehicles)
2. it has a very limited range for 'coyote effect'
3. coyote effect is passive, phoenix steering is active

you see, your posted TTK is pointless. you're also implying that the striker hits at least 3, what if not? how did you make this number up? THAT's where average accuracy comes into play.

but you are suggesting balance stuff based on your TTK. arguing what the striker needs or not to be balanced.

i tested it. i didn't just look at the stats and assumed something. i also didn't even specify ANY details (e.g. distance). i can assure you, i tested it carefully and my values are right. you might not like them, but they are correct. telling the truth isn't "lying".

you missed the point: i explained to you, that e.g. you can't solo destroy a vanguard with a new striker from the front from a certain range without getting new ammo, you can however do it with a lancer. you seemed to have missed my point, hope this clearifies it.

Please provide data on what the average hit rate is in a large battle. Oh wait. No one can, which is why we've been discussing what the practical applications will shake out as. The TTK just gives an indication on the possible damage output of the launchers, that's all that's being supplied. No one is saying that's the only thing we should look at.

Launchers don't have any damage loss over range. I get the feeling you have no idea what you're talking about.

Yes, why WOULD somebody test multiple launchers against the same target to ensure an identical HP pool. I'm now fairly confident that you have no idea what you're talking about. Might want to just let this one go.

http://i.imgur.com/Ayie0qb.jpg check the damage, it does have drop off

it's called average accuracy. e.g. the lancer has 59.5% ± 7.1972%, the phoenix has 50.7% ± 6.9183%.

because someone want's to assess the actual combat value against possible targets and not something you're not gonna fight against.

So now you are complaining that the TR work together...and thats a bad thing, so we shouldnt have a weapon that works well in unison?

Heres an idea, calculate TTK with a certain % of misses.

Back when the nosguns were being rebalanced i saw someone come up with a nice TTK/accuracy graph comparing them.

Weapons have to be balanced around the fact that they get spammed too, yes. Higby have said it, and basic logic and reasoning says it.

You should have a weapon that works well in unison. But you cant't have a weapon that just Dominates everything alone, and completely removes all Vehicle and Air aspects from the game when combined.

Lancers need a squad of more than 6 people to be truly effective and reach killing potential. It also needs very good positioning. The Phoenix too needs 3-4 people to coordinate and hit their targets simultaneously to hit with enough power.

What you are asking for is a ESRL that needs TWO people to just instakill every nearby ESF in a few seconds.

feedback from players who tested it on PTS against moving, fighting targets:

this feedback tells us that the striker isn't nearly as effective and easy to use as someone wants us to believe, so please stop spreading panic and false information