cept the cyclone, which ***** all over the NS SMG and retains it's rightful place as SMG lord and master
pretty much, but its got some more damage drop than what I'm particularly fond of. still, this is the closest thing to a CQC carbine we have (GD7f is a stolen TR wep, I have disowned it as NC)
I think it is fairly balanced since the current SMGs can beat it in CQB, but the new one is slightly better at mid range. Maybe tiny small changes like bullet velocity and a tiny reload speed decrease. Outside of that it follows after the other NS weapons being extremely balanced.
Its a mediocre SMG with slightly more reach making it a little more flexible, it's a CQC carbine for the classes that can't use carbines which is a point some have missed, not every class can use the carbines people are comparing this to. It's fairly balanced and will only need minor tweaking in a couple of months if at all once they have the performance stats.
Except all but one CQC Carbine blow all SMGs out of the water in terms of damage (Lynx, VX6-7, Serpent, GD-7F) all do more damage than all SMGs and have better damage per mag than the NS SMG. Now, CQC carbines do better damage than SMGs, but generally hipfire worse (double or more the bloom per shot), but are a little more mid-range versatile in some cases. NS-SMG does even less damage than other SMGs and is really far removed from CQC Carbines. It is basically a mediocre mid-range carbine for all those Infiltrators who always wanted a Solstice with less damage per mag and velocity but great hipfire handling. A Mercenary or Trac-5 already does more damage. At least the NS-SMG slightly beats the T5 AMC and Razor at CQC damage I guess it's pretty ok if you want a mid-range weapon but think the Automatic scout rifle's bad hipfire annoys you too much. The NS-SMG does less damage at mid-long range because auto scouts only fall off 1 tier of damage, but in trade, the NS-SMG is less incompetent up close without actually being good there. It's also really funny when people say it's OP because they die a lot to it. Most people die a lot. You are on the test server and this is a brand new weapon anyone can buy and use on any faction and class with test server certs. OF COURSE tons of people are going to use it, getting killed a lot by it just means there's a lot of them out there. Makes sense for a gun every class and faction can use and is shiny and new.
Sure it looks fine when compared to other smgs, but compare it to other weapons and it becomes evident that this is a really bad weapon. Lets compare it to my favorite carbine in the game, the LC3 jaguar. The only stats the the Ns smg beats the jaguar at is a faster reload, and a BARELY better hipfire, but thats a very small difference. The only stat that the two have the same is rof, which is at 750 for both of them. Now pretty much every single other stat is worse, the jaguar does 143 damage pre bullet, the ns smg does 125. The jaguar has 40 bullets pre mag, the ns smg has 30 And the jaguar keeps its max damage much further then the smg. So should the ns smg be added in its current state, it can't win it will lose in cqc to shotguns, other smgs, every carbine in the game, the majority of assault rifles, and most lmgs. Then out in longer ranges it will lose to every weapon that isn't a shotgun or smg (with the exception of the Nc's cyclone, which will beat the ns smg at any range) And as someone else said in this thread, it takes 15 shots with the ns smg to kill a HA with nanoweave 5 and resist shield, and with a rof of only 750 HAs are pretty much immune to this weapon. Now lets say we give it the same damage as the jaguar, now the NS smg is every so slightly better in cqc then carbines, but still worse at long range as them, but it still has a fighting chance so it won't be completely wiped out at longer ranges.
Well to be fair, the Jaguar produces about double the cone of fire bloom per shot when hipfiring, so the NS SMG can fire more shots for the same accuracy loss. Except, of course, this is true for every single other SMG and doesn't change that the fact that the NS SMG does bad damage and the Jaguar will CRUSH it up close AND at ranges where the NS SMG is slightly better than other SMGs.
Uhh... From what I'm seeing... Which is hard to read... Your saying not to talk about anything being tested because it's being tested... Which seems counter intuitive. Also I didn't really take a look at the stats because I know not all stats are listed. I take into account my experience as well as others. Sorry I didn't take the time to post reasoning for why. There wasn't that much to post. People seem to die more to this SMG then other weapons at short to medium ranges. I don't know why or how to fix it. But, I felt it should be talked about to find out why this is.
I never seem to die in close range from SMGs on live but on test this felt much faster when it comes to time to kill. Same Nanoweve and such. Others seemed to feel it was powerful against players as well. But I forgot to ask why so I suppose I have nothing more to say :/
Its how SMG's should have been in the first place. Its UP compared to the current SMG's which are ********.
No, it's been proven over the past several months that's what SOE has done, released such a thing that the masses would buy and a couple months later change it for the worse.
the problem i see is they aren't in the CQC niche they are a mid range weapon so its stepping all over the toes of carbines and AR's SMG is made for CQC keep it that way, dont make them better at mid ranges, thats what the other weapon classes are for. if you want to open mid range to the infiltrator then just let them have the carbines, this is just a better carbine with faster reloads and better hipfire your just calling it an SMG
so tinfoil is impervious to truth i take it? because that is indeed what they have been doing, whether it was an intentional cash grab or just poor balance when they released them the effect is the same these weapons need to be balanced properly before going up for sale. i've suggested it a few times that they do similar to LoL and have a rotating set of free weapons that would allow people to trial the base weapons for awhile on live. - would allow them some good data in live environments - would build more hype for the weapons for when they are added to the store - would give us a good idea of how the new weapons will influence the game when they are purchase-able with ES weapons this would also serve as a primer for the other factions to provide feedback about fighting against it. this would result in less rebalancing and angry customers due to changes to things they have already paid for
NC Cyclone SMG Versus NS SMG. @ 1 meter to 8 meters, DPS Output: NC Cyclone SMG > NS SMG. @ 9 meters to 21 meters, DPS Output: NC Cyclone SMG > NS SMG. @ 22 meters to 23 meters, DPS Output: NC Cyclone SMG = NS SMG. @ 24 meters to 300 meters, DPS Output: NC Cyclone SMG < NS SMG; (1086.6 damage per sec < 1250.0 damage per sec). @ 1 meter to 37 meters, Damage per bullet: NC Cyclone SMG > NS SMG. @ 38 meter, Damage per bullet: NC Cyclone SMG = NS SMG. @ 39 meters to 65 meters, Damage per bullet: NC Cyclone SMG < NS SMG. ROF: NC Cyclone SMG < NS SMG; (10.8666 bullets per sec < 12.5 bullets per sec). Downtime in between shots: NC Cyclone SMG < NS SMG; ( 92.0 ms > 80.0 ms); smaller downtime = good, larger downtime = bad. NC Cyclone SMG: Bullet A | - - - - - - - 92.0 ms - - | Bullet B. NS SMG:...............Bullet A | - - - - - - - 80.0 ms - | Bullet B. @ 8 meters: NC Cyclone SMG / NS SMG. Rounds per head-shot kill = 3.29 rounds or 4 rounds total / 4.4 rounds or 5 rounds total. Rounds per body-shot kill = 5.99 rounds or 6 rounds total / 8.0 rounds total. @ 39 meters: NC Cyclone SMG / NS SMG. Rounds per head-shot kill = 4.92 rounds or 5 rounds total / 4.87 rounds or 5 rounds total. Rounds per body-shot kill = 9.845 rounds or 10 rounds total / 9.73 rounds or 10 rounds total. @ 46 meters: NC Cyclone SMG / NS SMG. Rounds per head-shot kill = 5.5 rounds or 6 rounds total / 5.02 rounds or 5 to 6 rounds total. Rounds per body-shot kill = 11.0 rounds total / 10.04 rounds or 10 rounds total. Bullet Time to Travel: NC Cyclone SMG < NS SMG. NC Cyclone Graph EQN: Y = (100 damage - 167 damage) / (46 m - 6 m) ( x - 6 m) + 167 damage. ( Damage per bullet). NS SMG Graph EQN : Y = (100 damage - 125 damage) / (65 m - 15 m) ( x - 15 m) + 125 damage. (Damage per bullet). Sidenote: 1. 167 damage from the NC SMG, or the 125 damage from the NS SMG, is looked at as Damage per bullet, and not "damage" alone. 2. Round = Bullet; therefore, RPM = BPM or RPS = BPS; Damage per bullet = Damage per round. 3. "Downtime in between shots" is the measurement of time in between each shot. It implies the time between bullet A to bullet B, and so on. If the value or magnitude of time between bullet A and bullet B goes up, time between shots expand. It's magnitude goes up, ROF value or magnitude goes down. If this were a scenario where you have a hand-gun. It's a semi-auto. Time in between bullets will vary. Downtime in between shots + Time to click LHM Button (Input Device Lag) + Possible Connection Lag + Server Lag + Time to Aim would result in a new variable related to a players' reaction time, measured in milli-seconds...
The way you said it just looked like the usual "ps2 is just a cashgrab and all weapons are OP and get nerfed to introduce new OP weapons" bs that it's easy to found in this forum, that's why i gave you some tinfoil. Before release, they can do all the balance they want (and they do), but theorycrafting has lots of limits. That's why shotguns remained so powerful for a lot of time.. They changed it after big complaints started to be raised about their huge effectiveness, but before they probably didn't even have enough feedback that confirmed their OPness. And spending time on a rebalance that they were not sure about (which is because a LOT of complaints about shotguns are because people think they are noob weapons and general whine without logic) is a bad thing for them, considering the amount of stuff they have to do on the game. Balancing is a continuous process and has to take into consideration that people hate changes regardless and need time to adapt and see the potential of the changed things. It's not as black-or-white as many think, unfortunately. The problem with the system you propose is that it wouldn't mean that people is less angry. People would still scream "X is OP!!!!!!" "Y is UP!!!!!" "NERF NERF NERF!" and such, because every change pisses off someone regardless. Related link. And it would require quite a bit of work for an uncertain gain, which soe (like every company) is not inclined to do on the basis of "it may work!".
It's just a poor SMG with nice hipfire and range, which while more flexible than the current SMGs, isn't OP.
This. Seriously, do this SOE, plz... I'm still going to buy that damned weapon regardless, but if they at least try to make it competitive with the other SMGs in some way it would be nice.
