[Suggestion] New NS-500 SAM for Sunderers

The best AA nests can't even be reached by ground.

Who needs a sundy when you have a couple engies (infinite ammo & MAX repairs, they can take AV pop shots at any armor from their vantage point) a couple medics, and a bunch of G2A's and bursters?

If they wipe you? OH NOEZ! Set up again nearby in under a minute by riding out another Gal (which happens to have an AA gun on top too BTW for the medics to use)

Sounds like an extreme force multiplayer in large fights. Have a few of these SAMs hiding behind the walls of a friendly amp station surrounded by armor, and you have a no-fly zone that goes to render range. No thanks.

Just so you know, this thread originated in response to the Lib update that made Libs Gods fo the Skies, where they took like 6-8 MBT Titan AP rounds to kill.

Some dude necro'd the hell outta this.

Hehe necro FTW. In all seriousness I think it's a great idea.

But there are in fact many ways to counter the NS-500 SAM (more so than long-range AT). I'll quote a previous post of mine from this very thread:

The point being that the NS-500 SAM is part of an integrated air defense network... by itself there will be gaps in the air defense, mostly because the NS-500 is slow to lock and reload. Getting in close or swarming it with numbers is the counterplay strategy if you're attacking it from the air. If the enemy has properly assembled a variety of AA to create an IADN, then enemy aircraft shouldn't be able to counter it.

My outfit usually deals with these with just a single squad in a Galaxy. Crash the Galaxy in the middle of their camp, rockets and AT grenades everywhere, and the problem usually solves itself.

If it's a particularly tough AA nest, two Galaxies with the first one being an empty decoy.

Though that's more because Galaxies are so darn tough and that the wreckage from dead Galaxies is more than enough to disorient the defenders so that they can't resist the assault.

Though if the enemy has:
1) Terrain advantage
2) A mix of anti-vehicle, anti-air, and anti-infantry combined arms
3) Logistics
4) Cooperation and leadership
Why should they lose to anything except a drastically superior force?

45 second deploy time holy hell. how about 25 seconds, there is no way you would ever be able to deploy the thing at 45 seconds. one LA with a couple bricks of C4 would gib you instantly.

Stuuuuupidddd. Stupid. Stupid! Thanks.
Seriously it's already stupid even with 1 sunderer. did you forget how many people play it? Now imagine 4 sunderers with that. Nice? Not actually. Air gameplay is already messed. You don't fly, do you? Come and try and you will see [LOCK] [LOCK] [LOCK] from everywhere. This game does not need any more lockable stuff. Stop posting your OP SWEET DREAMS.

I mean that might be a possibility... if I had a time machine and could travel back to May 2014 (almost a year ago) .

That being said, we totally need OP AA to counter OP A2G vehicles. Only fair.

The [LOCK] is actually a benefit to pilots. We could have "stealth" missiles that don't even give a [LOCK] warning, but I doubt pilots would like that better.

That's sort of the point. Any ground unit would have an easy time taking you out... because the hard counter to the NS-500 would be ground units. The long deploy time even means that aircraft can catch you "with your pants down" and encourages users to either be very stealthy or to travel with other AA units which can provide cover until the NS-500 is deployed.

The NS-500 would be a terrible lone-wolf weapon because it really requires both anti-ground and anti-air escorts to be effective. But when it does have support, it should clear the skies in short order.

4 Sunderers using a weapon that can only damage air, has little to no armor, takes a year and a half to (un)deploy and is visible to all enemy units in the area? You could kill all 4 of them with a single Harasser if you wanted to.

It's true that while you're in the air you often see "[LOCK] [LOCK] [LOCK]" but lets be honest here, how often do you die or even get hit by those lock-on weapons? How many targets do you get to pick off before that 3rd lock-on, which more often than not isn't enough because of fire suppression, finally hits you?

I feel that it's about time that we get something on the ground that actually scares pilots rather than tickling them.

I'll respond to the necro anyway, since there's still a considerable amount of angst about Liberators and air in general.

This is, objectively, a terrible weapon idea, even with all the balance changes brought upon by nearly a year of game development, this is still a terrible idea. Firstly, it is the ultimate "fire and forget" weapon, requiring the user to do absolutely nothing while the weapon operates. While it must be positioned properly, this is not a difficult task given PlanetSide 2's environment. It could be parked in any base that has been secured and attacking forces pushed out into open ground without any danger to itself. Then, just this one well protected vehicle gets to deny the entire hex of air. Just a few infantry would be needed to surround the sunderer to protect it from LA's. These infantry would be doing a whole lot of nothing for the majority of the time around the sunderer; they could be off capping a base, destroying ground vehicles, hell, all of them could be in their own skyguard, denying the airspace around the hex in an actual skillful platform.

This weapon is completely skilless. If this thing did make it into the game and a meta for its placement established, it would be near impossible to take down. Not only that, it is a flawed principle. PlanetSide 2 has three "realms" of fighting, air vehicles, ground vehicles, and infantry. All of these "realms" interact with each other in certain, balanced ways. Infantry shoot rockets at MBTs. Air lolpod groups of massed infantry. Skyguards and AP rounds are shot at air. Just this one vehicle, just one, would be able to completely nullify one of these "realms", taking it completely out of the equation. Now, just imagine two of these in a hex, or maybe three. As one is deployed, the other could drive back to be resupplied, making for a constant stream of render-range 100% accuracy missiles. No air could survive, and your faction could pull air with abandon and farm the hell out of the ground units. Unless, of course, the other faction pulls one of these things. Therefore, no more air interaction with ground. There's no use for the lib unless you want to dalton ESFs. No use for lolpods. No use for the light PPA, banshee, or airhammer. No more use for G2A lockons. Every heavy who has half a brain wouldn't think twice about using only the Decimator, now that there's no air to shoot at, since someone pulled a NS-500 SAM. Pilots would be forced to fight in their own hexes, breeding the toxic Bushido air honor code that permeates the pilot community today. Noob pilots wouldn't dare think about trying to fight air now that they don't even have ground units to help them finish an enemy pilot off, since everyone's in their own little hex. No more of those epic Gal drops onto bases that are about to be captured. Only because some scrub pulled this one vehicle that aims itself, so he can sit there with his thumb up his *** watching certs roll in.

It's a bad idea.

Seeing all these AA threads pop up, I figure I might as well revisit an old idea...



The NS-500M, which is a variation on the original NS-500. The missiles are essentially the same, as is the chassis. Everything works in the same, completely balanced way as before:

The only major difference is that the NS-500M has a bit of a slimmer look... and that's because NS decided to replace the back with more missiles. Everyone likes more missiles, right? Now the SAM system can launch a salvo of four missiles (or hold a few in reserve), making it more effective in combating heavy air units.

Well what was in the back you say? What did NS engineers discard?

Nothing important. Just the radar and targeting mechanisms.

Which of course means that without radar or a way to target its missiles, that makes the NS-500M rather useless.

Enter the next vehicle, which is necessary to the operation of the NS-500M:



Yup. They took the radar out the back of the Sunderer and made it even bigger. The radar system is no longer integrated, but an entirely separate vehicle. That's why the NS-500M is nicknamed the "Slave"... because it's completely obedient to the radar vehicle.

The Slave and Revealer are geared towards well-disciplined, organized SAM batteries. It requires at least two vehicles working in tandem for it to function, a level of cooperation that is found nowhere else in PS2. It also means that there is significant vulnerability as well, because if either vehicle is destroyed it leaves the other completely useless.

On the other hand a organized squad can take advantage of this specialization. Since each launcher can carry twice the number of missiles, the overall firepower of the SAM battery is improved. Additionally you only need one Revealer for the entire battery (though of course having back-up radar is never a bad idea), so it scales reasonably well.

The Revealer also offers benefits to other allies nearby. It functions as a vehicle scout radar, detecting both air and ground vehicles. It additionally extends the range of all infantry-based lockon weapons by an additional 100m. One of the perks of making radar bigger.

These components are of course inspired by actual SAM batteries, which contain multiple vehicles working in concert in order to keep the air clear. The S-400 battery for example, which contains these three vehicles (and a few more as well):

You know what? I like this. I want this, I think they should add this to the game yesterday, and literally every one of my ennemies should pull one, and compete to see who can kill the most of my ESFs.

I say this because they are completly, 100% defenceless against ground targets, and my lightning will drink many, many tears of rage.

Good idea.
But a no-skill hard counter that engages vehicles far beyond the range they can fight back at
shouldn't be only limited to one class of vehicles.
Here's my complementary idea:
A2G missile effective at render distance that will set a lightning burning, MBT at 20% health, and 1-shots harassers.
It's inspired by the Brimstone Missile ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brimstone_(missile) ).


Normally, a fighter plane could carry a few of them, but in PlanetSide 2 they'd obviously have to be mounted on a galaxy,
with a complementary valkyrie as a "data-processing center" or something like that. For balance reasons.

This weapon system would allow ground operations to proceed without vehicles dominating 90% of the ground
and easily farming all infantry that isn't hiding in enclosed bases.

It's easy to avoid by drivers, since a galaxy is easily spotted on the horizon + you'll have lock-on warning.

Yup. I think adding this would be a good idea, and would play well to supporting team play.

If aircraft can find the enemy "with their pants down" and not sporting AA, then aircraft ought to be able to easily dominate them using a wide variety of guided munitions or area bombs.

But if the enemy brought along AA with them, then it ought to be a "no fly zone" and aircraft would be met with the same amount of lethality that they can dish out.

This encourages both sides to have strong teamwork requirements; aircraft would have to rely on ground units to disable enemy air defenses and ground units would have to rely on AA to create an impenetrable anti-air net.

There are multiple kinds of skill. Including knowing where to place, and what to pull when. Also, two ESFs could kill this thing with their nose guns before it could shoot them both down, nevermind AT builds.

This would not have the deploy shield and other defensive perks, so it would be an easy kill. Being spotted on the mini for it's entire range means -everything- will try to kill it.

I think its range is a bit too far, but I think about 1000m is fair given an ESF can easily break LOS for the lock... and i think if the missiles worked like regular lock ons just more powerful, then no problem. YOu could still LOs the missile with terrain 90% of the time.

If you "have more skill" then you should be plenty good enough to avoid AA that gives you a staggeringly long 8 second warning. Just sit there and count to 8 on a stop watch.
1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8. That's how long you have to break the lock with -anything-. A Twig. A rock. A building, a cliff. If you are locked while right on top of the vehicle, sure, you probably won't get away. But remember, most locks happen in the upper half of a lock on's range. Nevermind the missile's travel time over that long distance could be quite long, and you might well be able to outrun it, especially if the missile's flight range were to match the lock on range. (Something that should already be in place).

So if you see "G Lock- SAM" warning, and a "SAM" warning for when its fired, you can turna way from the missile, and slam on the burners. Odds are -very- good you will be out of range before the missile can travel that far. Average missiles travel 1-250m. So, that means you have a staggering 10-12 seconds before a missile hits you. That's almost a quarter of a minute to evade this threat.

Also, as long as the missiles only light you on fire, you cannot be one shot by this vehicle, nevermind he has to lock you again after shooting his first shot.

So, this vehicle's TTK on an ESF ideally would be abouuuut... 8+8+x+x (Where X is a number between 1 and 4, 1 at 250m, and 4 at 1000m). So, about 18-24 secnds. Almost half a minute. That's Basilisk TTK long against a short/mid range ESF threat.

Libs should be afraid of this weapon system- but again, even after 18-24 seconds, he has to reload fully, and then lock again, giving you ANOTHER 10-30 seconds to escape, land and repair! If you have fire extinguishers, you can tank those hits, fly to the thing, and tankbuster it. If you have a gunner, and a brain, you can use terrain to cover your approach in any air vehicle.

So no, this is not broken at all, and would give ground the first fighting chance against aircraft it's ever had as a deterrance.