New nanite system means members are buying power

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kalivix, Aug 9, 2014.

  1. Crator

    I apologize then... We do not define pay-to-win the same. (I admit, there doesn't seem to be any kind of solid definition of the phrase either). So we are debating for no reason at all actually...

    In the past Pay-to-Win usually was a phrase someone used when describing a system that gave the purchaser an overwhelming advantage over a player who did not. It was bad to be a pay-to-win game because it would cause most players to no want to play at all (mainly because the cost was too high along with the fact that the item gave the purchases too much of an advantage)....

    I do not understand the motive of why people use the term pay-to-win in the way that that they do...

    Are players buying power as the thread title suggests? Yes
    Are players buying power that gives them an overwhelming advantage? No
    • Up x 2
  2. Taemien

    Can't pull your weight staring at a queue screen. But its cute that you're trying to stay relevant despite that.
  3. phreec

    Resources have been there only to limit free players since day one.
  4. DrBash00

    Since the Idea of 1 ressource came up, i always told them this goes in the direction of Pay 2 win.
    BUT Soe wants redesign the income of the nanites, so hopefully they think of removing the membership and ressource boost... or make it a little bit lower...
  5. Thardus

    Imagine a game that has two types of players. Members, and Non-Members. Members get instant respawn, non-members can only spawn once every three minutes.

    Is that pay to win? Provided each team has the same number of members and non-members, certainly not, though definitely an annoying cash grab. In fact, if you can manage to keep yourself alive for three minutes, you won't even notice the difference.

    This, is essentially how the new resource system in Planetside 2 works, though never that bad. You can always spawn, you can always pull stuff, the only limitation is that if you're extremely wasteful with high powered supplies, you'll probably end up with a bit of down time, but even that is difficult. A member has zero advantage over a non-member on the field of battle.

    The new resource system is pay for convenience... pay for expediency... that's what free to play games have always been about. It's certainly, however, not Pay 2 Win.
    • Up x 3
  6. EViLMinD

    Membership has benefits? What?

    This game is awesome, so why not support it? Ten bucks is nothing. Don't be a cheapskate. Become a member today!
  7. acksbox

    When is the last time you played without a subscription?

    It's been weeks (and at least 100 hours of play) since I've even seen a queue screen. If I go back further, I can count on one hand, in the 1,200+ hours I've played, the number of times I've been in a queue for more than five minutes.

    You can't pull your own weight when you aren't logged into the game either. Are you going to condemn those who play less than every waking moment as casuals who can't pull their weight?

    I'd wager that at any given moment, I am more likely to be actively playing the game than 90% of subscribers.

    Not that queues would matter, even if they were common/protracted, as I do not hop continents often. I playing was on the same continent for six consecutive hours this morning/afternoon. Are you implying that I cannot do anything of relevance (or as relevant as anything gets in PS2) if I stay put? That's just idiotic. If the continent isn't locked, there is something to do. If it becomes locked while you are there, there is no queue screen when you redeploy elsewhere.

    Even if your personal preferences with regard to play-style and relevance were based on something more than inaccurate and incomplete perceptions, it would still just be your own personal preference, not some objective truth.

    This game is the best relative to the zero other games of it's kind.

    However, If I had to actually quantify the experience, it could stand quite a bit of improvement. Also, it hasn't been improving, from my perspective, it's been regressing. Every significant alteration/patch has stripped depth from the game and made it just that much less enjoyable for me, each time.

    I still find it worth playing, but not worth paying for.

    Ten bucks is ten bucks. I can get a lot of stuff for ten bucks.

    I'll give SOE more of my money when the game is moving in a direction I see as an improvement. It would be silly for me to reward them for a downgrade in my entertainment level.
  8. Taemien

    With a sub I had a short queue a couple of days ago. I see them on Connery every couple of days AS a Member and would probably see them more often if I played more during primetime. So sorry, not buying this argument. I've already said this in this thread.
  9. acksbox

    I'm not asking you to buy my argument. I'm just pointing out how completely biased, hypocritical, and inane your own is.
  10. Taemien

    I'm sorry you're wrong in your own argument. You said there's no queues, when there are.
  11. Kentucky Windage

    Your point is right on target. There are perks for paying members. As it should be. I am not really what you would call a casual player as I play just about every day. I don't feel the need to sub. And I most certainly think the advantage of being a member is minimal at best. However, should I choose to do so the option is always there.

    I realize my limitations as a non paying player that should I choose to warp I might have to wait. I also understand my resources regen at a slower rate than a paying player. I also understand my cert gain is below what a paying players is unless I participate in alerts and then I'm compensated well. Does that give the paying player an overwhelming advantage over me. Ask the paying players that I've shredded with my free T1 Cycler or Trac-5 if it helped them. The answer is NO.

    Players should know what they are getting into before suiting up. That's on the player to decide if those limitations are acceptable. If If another game. Nobody is holding a gun to your head.

    I mean the game is free. I don't pay a dime to enjoy this game. I guess that's not good enough for some. Perhaps they feel SOE should just give them a sub too. It's quite ridiculous when you actually sit down and think about it.
  12. Gambitual

    I'm defending PS2 and SoE because people are being unreasonable. People have been paying for resources since the start. Nothing in that regard has changed. If you truly believe paying for a small bonus to resources which can occasionally cut your time to acquire things by a few minutes is P2W, then understand that a) it has been like this since inception b) you are griping about something so trivial and need to re-evaluate your position in PS2 and c) you are, for the most part, ignoring the good parts of the new system.

    My goodness gracious... You sound like me. :eek:
    I agree with everything this man (or woman) said to the very letter and way he said it. He gets it.
  13. UberBonisseur

    50% isn't small, and you can throw in another resource boost on top of it.
    And it never was about "waiting a few minutes less"; over the course of an hour, I pull 8 tanks, you pull 12.
    Or rather, I pull 8 tanks, you pull 8, 2 ESF, 2 MAX, and a few C4. That's a massive difference.

    Although it was even MORE broken in the old system because XP boosts affected resource gain, nobody cared because we all knew the old resource system was a mess.
    You should never ever be able to circumvent fundamental game systems with money. That's excatly what a resource boost is.

    They should reevaluate membership benefits. Just because it's on the bottom ladder of P2W doesn't mean it's fair to introduce such a bonus. It doesn't make sense that it made it into the game in the first place.
  14. DK22

    The only scenario I can think of for P2W is if TR had all members and NC and VS were all F2P.
    On that large a scale I could see some advantage for TR over the course of a battle.
    But considering the large number of mostly random players, it just wouldn't happen.

    Even on a 1v1 scale I don't think it'd make any difference, You only have what your armed with at the time,
    and besides they are much slower battles. More than enough time for F2P to get resources.
  15. Ronin Oni

    Priority Queue was about it IF you were on a popped server.
  16. Gambitual

    Over the course of an hour? Those few extra things, over the course of an hour, aren't as substantial as you think. Depending on the scope and size of battle, they may be useless. Also, pulling that many vehicles and MAXes in an hour means you are, essentially, trashing some of them. In any case, I get your point. You are able to pull more by throwing money into the game.

    Membership has to provide some sort of advantage or else people wouldn't bother with it. Unless you think that an XP boost is not P2W and that the removal of the resource boosts would not generate hate and hysteria, I don't see what else can be done about membership. All and all, it is fine. As far as I know, this kind of P2W membership has been here since beta/launch and most everyone is fine with it. And I know that just because people are fine with it, doesn't make it ultimately right; but really, just let the issue lie.

    I am of the mind set that a resource boost is an advantage, but by itself that advantage does not strictly equal winning.

    At the very least, you do agree that the new system is, more or less, less P2W than the old system. So can you agree that all these threads about the new system being P2W are unjustified and, again more or less, wrong?
  17. warmachine1

    It is not much advantage in current state, but economic rework is still not done!
    This should be a big warning sign to SoE, most reviewers have zero tolerance for p2w in pvp games.

    Things do not go well for PS2, I dubt there is enough members to populate a single server.
  18. Degenatron


    "Pay 2 Win" specifically means members (like myself) get access to thing Non-member do not. For example: Stronger Weapons, Stronger Armor, or Movement Buffs. These thing would give a paying member an advantage "In The Fight". "In The Fight" is the gulding rule of P2W. Nothing item in Planetside is given to paying members that is not also given to non-members. Free players get all of the same guns, armor, and tools that member gets.

    What is limited for non-members is how often they can get these things. That is NOT P2W. That is "pay for convenience".

    The tank I pull is not more powerful than an enemy tank. It doesn't have more armor or a bigger gun. A non-member can equip their tank in the exact same way. I am not guaranteed victory in a battle because of my membership. If I go head-to-head against a better tank driver, they will win. What I do after that engagement is of no consequence, they already won the fight. If I pull another tank and try to track them down, I will be beaten again. Again, membership does not grant me any ability to "win the fight".

    The same goes for any other resources restricted item as well. I can pull a max, but so can a non-member. Winning with that max is a matter of skill, not how much I paid. I can die and pull another max, that doesn't mean I'm going to win the next fight either.

    The devs have done a great job of making sure this game steers clear of P2W mechanics. I quit WoT a week after I started playing it because I learned what "Gold Ammo" was. Now, I know WoT has since removed Gold Ammo, but the damage is done. They proved they were willing to give a clear advantage to paying players "in the fight" and so I'll never give them another chance. In Planetside, the fights you win or lose are determined by your skill, not your wallet.
    • Up x 3
  19. Neo3602

    @Degenatron I can not give your post enough thumbs up
    • Up x 1
  20. volth

    Not P2W, its Pay to have more fun.
    Levels dont do so much in PS2.
    High levels have more fun weapons but thats it.

    A F2P player get 50nanites/min and a member 100nanites/min and with a boost 150nanites/min. But you can only spawn one vehicles at a time and have 4 nades or 2.
    But I still think the old resource system was better with bigger server populations.

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