New Lynx and Cougar are a step backwards in weapon variety

The new Lynx and Cougar fill a weapon role that is already filled by all existing TR carbines except the T5 AMC; that of being good in close quarters and midrange. They are good sidegrades for that purpose. However, TR still lose out on a dedicated CQC carbine(loss of the old Lynx), and there is still no sidegrade available to the T5 AMC.

While the changes to the TR carbine arsenal are a step forward in the damage tier department(we have 125, 143, 167 tiers, as opposed to only 143), it is a step backwards in the weapon role department. I'd like to see the old Lynx stay, in addition to having the new Lynx, but I find no problems with the new Lynx and Cougar.

TR wanted a long range option to contend with the T5 AMC, as well as another high firerate carbine. However, TR no longer have a dedicated close quarters weapon, and still have no option for medium to long range, other than the T5 AMC.

While the new Carbines are good, they do not address the TR problem of weapon variety in the carbine arsenal.

Seeing as how the Jaguar is the Trac-5 but with better hipfire, I've been thinking...

-Release new Cougar Carbine
-Convert Old Lynx into New Lynx
-Convert Jaguar into Old Lynx

How is that for variety, instead? Current Jaguar is the same RPM as the Trac-5, so push IT up to the Old Lynx stats (or some hybrid between). TR then keeps the CQC powerhouse gun, while having new options for guns that have decent mid-range potential. Not saying that I hate the Jaguar, but keeping the guns that lie on the extremes performance-wise seems like the better approach if we're trying to improve variety in the TR carbine arsenal.

Bah. The changes are fine. Btw I only use trac5.

I hate to sound like a pompous fart, but can you back up your claim?

It's decent, but not optimal. TR would lose out on a valuable sidegrade in the good-cqc-good-midrange department.

I suppose it's okay...

My solution would be:
-TR gets new Lynx and carbinized SABR-13(every faction still keeps everything)
-NC gets Bandit and the Cougar
-VS gets 723 rpm, 0.75 ads weapon(the name escapes me) and a carbinized Ursa/Corvus

I downvote the OP. TR carbine variety does not exist currently on live. While I don't think Cougar looks like a medium range gun, it is certainly a step forwards in variety.

Cougar is dedicated CQC, its current attachment retinue consists of adv laser and soft point and its damage drop off and velocity are atrocious, it will beat the merc though close range with its 167 damage at 632rpm
Jag IS close quarters, its beastly hipfire and atrocious velocity leave very little for mid to long range.

New Lynx on the other hand has (roughly) the same DPS as the old Lynx but its bullet loss over range only drops to 100 instead of 84 meaning it will actually beat weapons such as the GD-7F at mid to long range, which is immensely useful.
Since its handling is also really controllable and managable recoil, its a brilliant addition to the TR arsenal.
Id say the new Lynx is the new mid range weapon, also doing quite well at CQC and even some long range battles.

You misunderstand me, or do not read my post. I'm talking about weapon variety in terms of weapon roles. the Cougar and the new Lynx are new sidegrades to the Jaguar, as far as versatile CQC-midrange weapons go. However, TR now lacks a dedicated CQC weapon, because the new Lynx will cease to exist. TR also does not gain a Carbine to compete with the T5 AMC at longer ranges. Therefore, it is a step backwards in weapon variety.

Yet I can still down people past 40m with the Jaguar. The velocity is bad, and it is a pain to lead, but when you to, it is still god for mid range, as it should be. You think the Jaguar has beastly hipfire? Try the Lynx, which has a better, SMG tier moving hipfire spread. That's beastly.

Cougar is not dedicated CQC. It doesn't have the DPS to back it up. It can't compete with the Serpent and GD-7F as well as the Lynx did. The Lynx has more damage per magazine than the Cougar. The Cougar drops off to 112 damage, and with it's controllable recoil, makes it not a dedicated CQC option. Even if it were, it isn't the CQC option TR deserve. The Lynx was.

Yes, which makes it a viable sidegrade to current TR carbines. The new Lynx is good for the TR arsenal. Like I said, the new Lynx is good as a versatile CQC-midrange carbine gets. However, it isn't as good as the old Lynx in CQC.

I disagree entirely, the old Lynx was literally just a bad Jag, worse in nearly every way, 4 times the cert price and its only benefit over the Jag was the extra 50rpm which was barely noticeable

Tell me why I would fork out 1000 certs, or 7 dollars for the same gun with less hipfire accuracy?
This new Lynx, even if it sucked clegg, I am still going to buy it because its DIFFERENT, I can take something new into battle and also do stuff that the Jag couldnt do as well in, eg longer range engagements

The new Lynx still has the DPS advantage over the Jag, but its recoil is easy to manage this time, it has less damage drop off (relatively) and a significantly faster reload compared to the Jag.

GIMME GIMME!

My real worry is it will make the Jag obsolete.

Another "marksman" carbine would encourage the exact same gameplay as T5 AMC. And T5 AMC is already the most popular marksman carbine in the game I believe. The only reason that TR players ask for another carbine like this is not because of weapon variety but the experience that any other sort of carbine will either be bad or nerfed heavily after they unlock it. TR say things like "why give us another trash cqc carbine" becuase they expect TR cqc carbines to be trash. Cougar isn't trash as it is. And the 167 / spa playstyle is different to any other TR carbine.

I don't really understand why most people think that Lynx needed to change damage tier but overall accuracy changes make it a better weapon as it is on test. It was sort of a bad weapon before in comparison to alternatives.

TR carbines still have a problem with Jaguar being so inaccurate it's nearly useless and having no straight up top tier ttk carbine.

It was not worse in every way. In addition to having a 50 rpm advantage, the Lynx also has a better, SMG moving hipfire spread than the Jaguar, at 1.5, compared to the Jaguar's 1.75. So, the Lynx actually has better hipfire accuracy than the Jaguar. Combine that with the 800 rpm, and you have a close quarters powerhouse that the Jaguar couldn't ever hope to be. Not to mention, the recoil on the Lynx actually kicks to the right, while the recoil on the Jaguar is not biased horizontally. Therefore, it is easier to predict the horizontal recoil on the Lynx.

The Lynx had worthy tradeoffs to the Jaguar. You may not like it, but many others did.

What does the new Lynx have?

It gives up:

-0.75x ads to 0.5x ads
- 1.5 moving hipfire spread to 2
- 5720 damage per magazine to 5000 damage per magazine
-143 damage per shot compared to 125 damage per shot
-marginal amount of dps
-60m minimum damage range compared to 50m minimum damage range

At the time of this post, anyway.

The new Lynx gets 909 rpm and controllable recoil in return. The new Lynx is good, but it won't, and cannot be as good as the old Lynx in CQC.

Jaguar isn't inaccurate. Put a foregrip on it. Also, if you're that worried about COF on the Jaguar, stand still when picking off targets at medium range.

The Cougar isn't trash. It feels like an NC weapon, and competes for a weapon niche that is already had by other carbines: Jaguar, TRAC-5, etc.

Currently, the T5 AMC is the "most popular marksman carbine" because it's the ONLY marksman carbine for the TR. TR needs some choices when it comes to a medium-long range carbine. You can say that the NS-11C is there, but still, NS-11C doesn't have the bullet velocity to compete, and only stands out in terms of it's 0.75x ads.

COF is OK on the Jaguar but the jitter is horrible. Ignoring how ridiculous it is to use a gun that is heavily stat penalised for fast aiming movement speed to then have to stand stock still to hit anything outside hipfire range. Nerds just need to admit that this gun is pretty worthless right now and move on. It used to be good but it's day is over.

Cougar is in the same range as Jaguar and Trac 5 but 167 damage with spa and laser sight is different to trac 5 and the jag is currently garbage as far I am concerned but if it isn't that is different enough anyway.

As well as T5 AMC there is also the Trac 5 burst which is an excellent weapon. But carbines are not useful generally for long range work by design. You can ask for more but you will always end up angry and frustrated asking for another one because they are one of the worst classes of weapons for long range.

NS-11C is more of a closer range weapon.

Give TR the bandit and the NC the Cougar.

TR thinks Bandit is a beast of a gun, NC thinks Cougar is a beast of a gun. So i doubt there will be arguments about this.

That's factually inaccurate, by the way. The Jaguar's vertical recoil is indeed straight up with no variation. The Lynx's vertical recoil is angled at random with a potential variability of nearly five degrees. The side-to-side horizontal rattle (which cannot be predicted or compensated for and is often confused for recoil angle) is also slightly worse on the current Lynx. The Jaguar is in fact easier to predict for because it doesn't recoil at a random angle.

Note that the T5 AMC has angled vertical recoil but it's invariant (it's 20/20 degrees), so that is predictable... but the AMC still has horizontal recoil too, just markedly less of it because of a lower base and access to an Advanced Forward Grip. In summary:

• The T5 AMC has a predictable, consistent vertical pull (up and to the right) that can be compensated for. It has minimal horizontal recoil, which cannot be compensated for. (It also has lower ROF but ignore that factor on accuracy for now)
• The Jaguar has a predictable, consistent straight-upward vertical pull that can be compensated for. It has moderate horizontal recoil, which cannot be compensated for.
• The Lynx has an unpredictable, variable vertical pull (up and to the right anywhere between 35 and 40 degrees) that cannot be perfectly compensated for but can be mitigated through control. It has moderate horizontal recoil, which cannot be compensated for.

In terms of handling, AMC > Jaguar > Lynx. That's just a fact based on how the weapon stats work. Factor in ROF too, where the Lynx's is highest, and you also have to deal with the recoil occurring faster, which gives a further accuracy advantage to the slower weapons.

It doesn't feel that way when I use it. I mean, sure, the Jaguar may handle better than the Lynx, but the right pull just feels a whole lot more consistent.

Yet NC has far more options than the TR do for medium-long range, while TR has the T5 AMC.

I don't see what the fuss is with the Jaguar. It may be that I've been using the Lynx for a while, and going back to the Jaguar feels like nonsense, but the recoil on the Jaguar is silly to control, with a foregrip, at least.

I understand how you feel, but how you feel is immaterial to fact. You're perhaps better-practiced with the Lynx, but the fact of the matter is the Lynx's rightward pull is somewhat inconsistent and this can cause miniscule errors in compensating for recoil that slightly throw off your aim even when you are an expert with the gun. It's only one of many factors that can cause a weapon to miss (COF, horizontal recoil, lag, framerate, flinch, all of these are of course also relevant), but it's a factor that does not exist on weapons with non-random recoil angles.

Well...
Close range: GD-7F
Mid range: Merc, GCS, ACX-11
Long range: Razor, GCB

We have more mid rangers who are serviceable at close or long range and carbines are never good at long range, NEVER. So how our variety good? Geez, I need to use Cyclone for CQC, cause I hate GD-7F. How is NC carbines are of more variety, when most are best aren't that optimal at place where carbines are best effective (Close to medium range)? TR currently have Jag, Trac, Lynx who are great at that range and serviceable up to 40 meters. 50 meters isn't place where carbines should be used. And for our both close to medium range weapons we need to dish out 700sc/1000c, that's a serious investment up to BR50.

Next patch will increase the RoF of the CARV to 900, while reducing the bullet damage to 100.

However, there will be a new gun called the Tiger with 750 RPM, 167 bullet damage and 300 rounds per magazine, yours for only 1000 certs or a cash/check/money order.... and purchasable as constellations/scientists for your respective faction.

I took the freedom to grab the stats of the current Lynx and Jaguar for comparison:

Lynx Top, Jaguar bottom:

Recoil Horiz. Min/Max
0.25/0.275
0.245/0.275

Recoil Angle Min/Max
35/40
0/0

Recoil Horiz. Bias
→
← = →

Clearly, the Jaguar has a slightly less consistent horizontal recoil, which goes to both sides, but straight vertical recoil,
while the Lynx has a right-sided recoil, but an angled vertical recoil with 5° deviation.

Which suits a player more is up to the player.
To compare this to something with a more even recoil, here's the T5 AMC:
0.2/0.2
20/20
→
which to me indeed looks like the most easily controllable carbine.
Btw, that's not from the game view, but this spreadsheet.

Though I feel I'm contributing to a derail, as this is more about current guns than coming ones, and as a VS player, I have little else to contribute.

I can, and have used the Mercenary and ACX-11 at ranges where the Jaguar, TRAC, Lynx would not be serviceable. Again, carbines follow a trend that makes them good for close to mid range. However, where NC carbines lack in CQC variety they gain in medium-long range variety. Where TR carbines lack in medium to long range variety, they gain in close to medium range variety.

THERE IS NO LONG RANGE CARBINE and never will be. It's useless and counter intuitive to use carbine at long range.