Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by SharpeShooter, Apr 18, 2013.
Do you even know what the word ignorant means?
This is indeed what all reasonable players think also.
There's just half a dozen here that you'll never convince the sky isn't falling, even though it clearly hasn't and hasn't even moved.
Look at the tools you're given. You're an infiltrator in name only.
They really need to allow us to mute the sound of our own jets - listening to it is making the game much less fun.
Chum, I've been here since tech test. I know for a FACT that the infiltrator is the stealthy class. To deny this is to deny logic. Yes, it has an abundance of sniper rifles, who else is going to use them? Engineers? What about the SMG? You mention it and then -silence, just because it doesn't fit your point of view. Illogical, and shows you grasp at straws anytime you can. You mention the cloak, but not its use, which is to SNEAK around, it's not just used for sniping, get real.. The noise is to provide some kind of awareness that there is something sneaking around. It's not like other FPS games where you are completely invisible, this is to provide some kind of balance between being hard to detect or just downright impossible to see. SoE seems to like having a counter for everything, this trend has been going on for some time now, they aren't trying to make the cloak useless for sneaking, just not the end-all be-all tool for getting around unnoticed. This has been a trend for some time.
You also forget that the Infiltrator pass hasn't been done yet, which will further flesh out its roles as the stealthy class. More tools and different cloak suits will be added. Not to forget, the darts are PERFECT for when you are sneaking around, place them in points where the enemy may come from, and now you've got a perfect idea of where to hide.
To say hacking has almost no use is to concede complete ignorance in the class and it's capabilities. If you think hacking has no use you must not be used to organized play. Hacking a V-term and pulling an AMS in the middle of a tower battle can turn the tide in a battle instantly.
In short, everything you have stated cements my points that the infiltrator is a stealth class, and NOTHING about the LA points at it being a stealth class. You must not have been paying attention since beta, cause if you did than you would already know all this.
I'm sorry, are you upset about something I said? Did I offend you when I stated that the LA is not a stealth class? Or perhaps when I pointed out that Infiltrators....Infiltrate? Please tell me what is bothering you. Start from your childhood.
The sound is in. It doesn't give LA away. You can barely hear it in firefights. I still sneak up on players as a LA. I can still ambush players from rooftops. I can still stealthily fly over MAXes and C4 them.
Case closed. Stop being *******.
No, just having an audible sound apparently is enough for the sky to fall for these people. They cannot deal with the off chance of being heard by little jimmy in the next room, they clamor and call this a nerf to make their class unplayable. The inability to adapt and overcome is astounding. They forget that in most battles there is an over abundance of noise coming from dozens of sources at a given time, blanketing the sound of their jump packs.
The funny thing is the infiltrator has a very easily recognisable cloak noise while the LA has a explosion like all the 1k explosions you hear in a fight in ps2, but yeah, poor LA they are ruined now that they aren´t perfectly silent......
First of all: I agree on your mindless drivel-argument a few posts later, at least regarding the posters caps-lock.
But let me tell you, formulations like "...some noise about..." are not much better than caps-lock regarding conversations.
Now about situations where support-classes need to be stealthy.
In general, avoiding enemy-detection is a good strategy.
Now let me give you some more specific examples:
I run with smaller groups of players pretty often, capping or bolstering allied positions.
Reviving allies without the enemy registering me, quite often turned the tides in fights.
When the enemy flanks the group and manages to kill a large portion of them, stealthy medics can revive the fallen players without being killed by the enemies.
Now the revived group can fall into the back of the enemy which likely deals with your other allied forces.
In the case of capping an outpost with a small squad, defenders will assume dead players constantly dead as long as they don't see a medic around. If the medic revives those downed players without being noticed, it can keep the group alive long enough to win the fight.
Medics keep a force alive and skilled enemies know that. If you want to kill a force, cutting their support is a good strategy.
Now for the engineers:
A mixed platoon of vehicles and infantry is attacking a base full of defenders.
The vehicles keep some distance and keep the pressure on the defenders, while the infantry invades the base.
Defending HA's shoot at the attackers tanks.
What do you think will a defending infiltrator do, when it sees the engineer that keeps an attacking tank running?
Answer me this then - what is the justification for this nerf, and what do we have outside of "stealth"? (this meaning is flanking, meaning no sound but visibility, aka opposite of INF). Do we have the tools to face other classes head on when they know we're coming? Will this improve the lacking playerbase that play this class? Was this needed?
As he said, you can fly, nobody else can do that. All classes aren´t made to be played in equal number. HA is supposed to be the main battle force. You can´t expect them to be the worse class in 1v1. I like how you always compare to HA, why don´t you compare with medics/engineers/infiltrators? You still have more speed as good weapons and the ability that noone has to come form an unexpected angle(window, roof, rock)
1: All classes aren't made to be equal in numbers? Please. Please please get out or come up with a proper argument. That is just an insult to us. Nobody ever ever said we weren't supposed to be equal in numbers, you made that up now.
2: None of the angles described are unexpected. After half a year/year of PS2 everybody knows where LA are coming from and now they can hear us. There is nothing unexpected here, people know and when they hear they aim their gun in our general direction making flanking impossible vs proper players.
3: We do compare us. The only class less played is INFs, we're the second worst class. We have the worst weapons for our fighting range now as people can detect us further out.
Flanking means attack from the sides or rear rather than head on where the rest of the attack is coming from. It doesn't necessarily mean stealth.
I logged onto my LA just know fearing near permanent deafness. I agree that the noise for the user is a tad on the loud side and should be toned down but having tested it with a few willing people (and listened to other people's packs) I don't see what all the fuss is about.
The main issue here appears to be one of patience. When playing LA I don't jump up onto a roof and tear straight down the stairs I pause and reassess the situation. The good LA players I've seen aren't the ones charging around willy nilly...they are the one stalking the enemy, waiting, planning ahead and bidding their time.
As to their weapons being poor...I don't think LA are meant to be fighting the enemy face to face over distances. We already have other classes for that so the SMGs, Shotguns and carbines we have are good for their range band.
I also think it a reasonable statement that not all classes are meant to be played in the ratios. In a battle one probably isn't going to need as many medics or engineers as HA who are the general infantrymen of this game. The squad and platoon sizes tend to exaggerate this.
Actually flanking means attacking someone from the side, hitting the sides. As for not meaning stealth, we had stealth since alpha and they just now took it away. It is safe to say that we're designed around the stealth of not being heard, just being seen - just as INFs are balanced around being heard, not seen.
From Oxford dic.:
attack down or from the sides, or rake with gunfire from the sides:a flanking attack from the northeast
If everyone can hear the LA coming, how is it flanking? Many of the enemies I try to flank now turn on me before they can see me because they hear me coming. That isn't flanking, it is head on fighting. And we're not equipped for that.
Until the devs say that half of the population is supposed to be HA your argument is crap. Sorry mate. As for patience - we already score lower, do you want us to score even lower by waiting around for kills? And not fight over distances - we're supposed to be audible up to 60m, but only fight effectively at 30? As flankers?
The jetpack noise isn't that loud to the user. Maybe don't have your volume at 100%?
And LA can be very good over long distances. I snipe snipers with shotgun slugs, it's not hard.
You're also VS. The only faction that still has viable sniper slug shotties. Not saying that NC and TR don't have great carbine options for longer ranges.
Hang on - is the new jumpjet noise the one everyone on the test server was crying about?
I was expecting a supersonic boom that blew out Sunderer windows. It's more like a mild sneezing noise.
In even a small scale battle I have no trouble flanking undetected.
The infiltrator cloak is still louder!
Infiltrator cloak isn't comparable at all: Long range class vs short range class, they are invisible and only get two sounds, we are visible and get a continuous sound whenever we use our utility.
Try hovering. The bangs are easily heard.
And it isn't a problem in large scale battles, its when LA go off to do the objectives that LA shines at we get detected - and quite easily so. Not sure why you would bring LA for large scale battles anyways...
We are agreed that the attack comes from the sides rather than from 'the front'. You have to define the front because until you do that you can't define the sides. Stealth isnt' mentioned in your defination because it isn't a requirement of a flanking attacking.
Flanking in modern warfare is performed not just to try to take the enemy by unawares as you seem to think. It is done to deny cover. it is done to divide attention and resources. It can be done to hit support or rear elements. It still involves assaulting a position. Often that means fighting the enemy. That's why the class is called Light Assault.
Sure we aren't trying to fight head to head but often that will happen.
It might mean overwhelming the enemy before they can fight back - and that's great if it does - but it isn't guaranteed.
No soldier with a brain wants the enemy to have a chance to fight back. That's true for me whichever class I play on whether LA, Medic or MAX.
What you seem to want is the ability to hop ninja like up to a roof, run down and kill everybody in the room without them getting the chance to fight back just because you are playing LA.
The JJ can still get an LA towards those positions but if there isn't another attack going on an LA might have to cover the final approach on foot - which he could well have done anyway. Jetting unnecessarily is a good way to draw attention to and get shot as one rises above terrain.
If I attack purely from the flank without support from the front (or a different flank) I expect to get into trouble because the enemy's attention isn't divided.
You say that SOE meant the class to have stealth but we don't know that it wasn't an unintended feature they hadn't gotten around to addressing until now so that's an assertion on your part. The pack was never silent to begin with, just quieter.
I didn't say that the Dev's had stated the percentages of classes - I pointed out that with six classes and only so many slots in a squad/and or platoon that it is always going to be unequal. Unless you just like fighting in squads of six? The players themselves are going to choose which roles they take on in an engagement. Sometimes that will mean more LA, other times it might mean more of another class. In a tank battle a medic is of less use to a squad than other Engineer or an HA so they might look at redeploying more appropriately.
As to the INF cloak I've identified and killed a number of snipers by the Faction specific sounds that cloaks make going on and off. If I'm on my NC toon and I hear a VS cloak 'ripple' I know an enemy is nearby. JJ's use the same sound so given the number of LA's I see running around it isn't an automatic give away that an enemy is around. Even in small skirmishes gunfire, explosions and allied LA's will add confusion to the mixture.
I don't wait around for kills on my LA, either. Pausing to assess a situation doesn't mean sitting around with my thumb up my butt. Taking that moment is more likely to up my score because I'm not running pell mell into a room and getting splattered by the guy standing in the opposite corner watching his buddies backs. And again, this applies to any class.
Just because my LA is audible over distances doesn't mean I want to fight over those same distances. I still have the option to hide or use terrain to conceal my movements. The LA is also more adept at using three dimensions to fight in - that hasn't changed. This can be used both offensively and defensively.
You need to clarify what you mean by their weapons being 'poor' in relation to the role.
Separate names with a comma.