Nerfing Mines and C4 only Rewards bad players.

I don't know if you've been keeping score but what you said is not the only way people take advantage of C4 and Mines....During 1 vs 1 tank fights many times the other tank comes towards you, the driver or gunner jumps out, throws C4 or a mine on you, KABOOM and you lose. The same happens when you are in a tank and going after a sunderer or while in a sunderer and an almost dead Mosquito/Scythe passes above you, the pilot ejects, drops on the sunderer, drops C4/Mines and again boom.....And 100000 more situations where C4/Mines have become the easy kill mode for cowards and people who just like to farm.

And, again, what is a "right location"? Because as I said, anywhere you can place a sundy, an engineer can reach. Are you seriously saying every sundy driver should sit in his bus and skip the battle, lest one random player kill it?

Let me ask you this. How do you think it's ok for one play style to dictate everyone elses? So because ONE player can insta-kill a sunderer, everyone else has to be forced down one play style. They HAVE to get mineguard. They HAVE to skip the battle and just sit there, guarding. Even then guarding doesn't work. You try to use that as an excuse, but it's not.

You HAVE to place your sunderer somewhere tight, some nook or cranny, to protect it from aircraft. In such positions you'll have maybe 2 seconds to shoot an engineer, very very few players have those kinds of reflexes. So what you're saying is you can either place your sundy somewhere that lets you kill engineers, but be vulnerable to air. Or somewhere that protects against air, but be vulnerable to engineers.

You are forcing their playstyle because all it takes is -ONE- ******* player to completely destroy an entire battle. One single player should not have the ability to end an entire siege because he gets a cheap kill on a sunderer. One infantry should NEVER be able to one-hit kill any vehicle. Ever. If you know there's a sunderer, grab a friend and go kill it.

You talk about "rolling into a base and start CoD-ing". What about mindlessly sprinting towards sundies looking to insta-kill them with mines? Because that's what pretty much every engineer does. It's not skillful. It's not tactical. It's WORSE than CoD. If he dies he just respawns 10 seconds later and does it again. You are rewarding bad players by allowing them to mindlessly blow up vehicles with no thought, no skill, and no effort.

We should reward SKILLED players. INTELLIGENT players. Players that use mines correctly by placing down minefields. Players that work as a team and kill sunderers by grabbing a couple HAs. Players that do not just mindlessly charge a sunderer or tank and insta-kill it with mines.

I don't really like how some people are pushing for the "realism" factor in mines like stuff when today's modern mines are far more flexible. Those IEDs in the middle east? They can be activated through anything. Trip wires, cellphones, proximity, pressure, etc. And all it takes is a terrorist with a couple wires, nitrates, and milk carton (and some other small things that I don't quite know about) to make a mine. Are you saying that the super advanced nanite mines of Auraxium cannot function as well as a shoddy home made mine some crazy guy made in a cave?

Utter and complete BS.

Ya know in WWII, there were dogs trained specifically to run to a MBT and place a mine there and watch it explode? And it worked, even if the target wasn't correct.

Also you have to remember something

ESFs and Liberators are hard to take down. You either need a couple heavies with a lockon launcher, a couple max units to kill them. A single engineer only takes a single foot soldier to take out. If an engineer gets past your +20 group of soldiers, then that means you can't defend your sunderer. He's not even particularly agile, he can't fly and he can't cloak.

I assume you believe that PS2 currently has some skilled and intelligent players. How many times have you run into a minefield?

As a Sunderer driver who, in fact, does regularly deploy behind cover and guard the Sunderer, I'd like to drop my 2 cents in on this. The main change I would like to see to mines would be to simply add an arming time to them of about 10s. Anti-tank mines, at least in their current state, do encourage some strategic play, but they are far to effective against Sunderers, even if you are defending them. Good Players are actually punished because the problem is compounded by parking a Sunderer behind cover. Parking the Sunderer in the open leaves it highly vulnerable to enemy armor, but parking it behind cover means that enemy infantry can often get within a few yards before being visible. All it takes is one infantry out of a dozen to get point blank and line of sight you behind the Sunderer for about 2 seconds to guarantee a Sunderer kill.

In so far as it taking skill to get to a parked Sunderer, this is highly situational, but as a Heavy Assault, I find it easiest to get to Sunderers deployed behind cover. I can sneak point blank and throw a couple C4 on the Sunderer and switch to my rocket launcher before anyone could kill me. I actually killed 4 Sunderers at Allatum Bio Lab the other day without sneaking at all, while several enemy platoons were present. How did I do it? I spammed vehicle spawns and charged straight at the Sunderer, got out when I got there, and while the enemies killed my vehicle, I dropped some C4 on it and killed it. It was by no means elegant, and it required a minimal amount of effort on my part. Given that an engineer doesn't even have to manually detonate the mines or finish the Sunderer off with rockets, I really wouldn't say that this takes any sort of special talent or skill.

So, why an arming time, you ask? In fact, this would reward strategically placing mines, while discouraging death charging at them. In the event that nobody actually was defending the Sunderer, then the Engineer still gets their kill after 10s. No problem. But if someone is defending the Sunderer, and they manage to kill the engineer in a timely manner, then they can simply hop in the Sunderer, undeploy it, and move it. In both cases, it rewards the players playing smartly.

Because they refuse to be responsible for themselves.It's much better to have SOE play for them, than play for themselves.

You guys are making sprinting towards a sunderer and pressing mouse 1 way harder than it is.

A couple times. But I can't call it a minefield since it'd take an entire platoon to lay down an actual minefield. But I have encountered players that have utilized mines properly. And some that used them uniquely.

I remember one incident at east canyons checkpoint where I was in my Vanguard, shooting some TR. Suddenly I notice a TR on top of me. I figured he was about to C4/mine me so I started to back up to try and shoot him. Turns out he was baiting me. He had already placed the mines on the ground about 10 feet behind my tank. He then jumped onto my tank to scare/entice me into moving so I could actually shoot him. Thus I fell right into his trap, I backed up as I swung my turret around to get a shot, boom, dead. Ran over his mines.

Tactics such as this would be entirely possible with the proposed changes. And things like that are good. He was an intelligent player who, instead of simply throwing his mines directly under me for a cheap kill, used intelligent planning to bait me into driving over the mines. I should specify that the mines were not directly behind me. It wasn't assured I'd hit them. He baited me into backing up at an angle so I hit them. It was a very good play on his part.

After that I continued to fight, grabbed another Vannie and made my way up to the palisade when I hit a mine, then a second one. I stopped and repaired and looked forward, 5 bloody mines lined the middle of the road going up. Someone DID place a minefield. Course I just shot them, but had they not blown up due to gunfire I'da been haulted there for a while as I tried to defuse the mines.

So yeah, people ALREADY use mines the way they're suppose to be used. They're rare, but they do happen. If the system is built to encourage and reward this kind of play, you'd see even more. Give players the ability to place 20 mines (no stacking) and I guarantee you, you'd see minefields.

lol well if you were not to lazy to defend your sunderer, they would never be killed. But why do that when being a professional victim is much easier to get SOE to change things to the shallow mindless dross that they are becoming.

No Engi would ever get near a Sundy if they were protected, now I know you will gloss over this or denigh it outright, but facts are facts
1 Engi v 6 guys, an duel 40mm launchers, = safest spot in the game. Now I grant you, SOE would not give you everything on a plate if you played the propper way, so that is how we arrived at this point.

Either way, it's not like there's anything else for you to use instead of mineguard. Mineguard costs 30 certs. I can almost guarantee you that you'll never be killed by a mine ever again.

Also defending your sunderer is a good cert farm. I got 20 kills defending my sunderer for 2 minutes before a Magrider blew it up.

I was thinking 10/15, but yeah, 20 might work. That might also be a bit overkill unless you ramped the damage down per mine (which wouldn't be bad....minefields should *slow* pushes IMHO, but not always get kills except for the truly unwary)

All I get from reading this is incredible arrogance,a condescending tone, and an entitled mindset.

Let me address your points, okay? There's rarely any sunderers parked wide in the open for a squad to protect it and see everything coming. They're usually parked behind cover, which I know shatters your fantasy world, but they do! So what would dual 40mm launchers do with limited ranges and unable to see their blindspots? You do realize how most sunderers killed by AT mines happen right? Engineers usually come from higher cliffs or walls, jump down, and spam tank mines. They come from indoors and stick to the walls and your vehicle so you can't see them. Believe it or not, infantry is more mobile than a sunderer! Now, this wouldn't be a problem at all if engineers don't have an easy one-hit kill weapon, but they do! It's not hard to sprint toward a protected sunderer and do what you guys do, stop pretending. I know from your videogame high horse, it's hard to comprehend all this, but it's the truth! That said, I truly don't know what your other team is doing, are they being lazy? Why aren't they backing you up or supporting you?

But if you guys can't handle or adapt not having cheap weapons like an anti-tank mine, and unable to kill sunderers without it while others can perfectly can, what does that speak of you?

Always seems to me, if it doesn't cater ONLY to YOU, SOE is spoiling everyone. But to me, SOE has spoiled you with a cheap weapon used for other purpose other than area denial.

I can sure make some elaborate minefields with 2 AT mines. Especially since I am psychic and know where the enemies are going to come from and where they are going to go off road and park at. Majority of these sunderers being suicide bombed were either way to close or unprotected. It is a mobile spawn station and key to taking bases of course the defenders are going to go for it in the quickest and fastest way.

Nobody ever forced anyone to run mineguard. It was just the best option for what you were doing. If an ESF comes and rocketpods you do you switch to AA? That is adapting to what the battle calls for no, being forced.

I don't think this is the best fix. "Minefields" are currently not feasible. The good sunderers drivers had no problem. The ones that knew they wanted a spawn station and sacrificed the battle to guard. Same with the ones that put mineguard on and watched as engys failed to blow up sundy. All of this was blown out of proportion from the players that want everything easy and on their side.

And for those, I just want you to know 2 AT mines + a Sticky Grenade is still going to wreck your sundy.

Please everyone stop the complaints for nerfs. The last SOE game I saw this much complaining on, got gutted to be so casual friendly it killed itself. eff you NGE, and RIP Star Wars Galaxies.

Maim style real life mines wont work in this game due to the fact that we have repair and heal tools so the damage is pointless.

Minefields are pointless due to the face that it just make people shoot the ground more to blown them up. But hey lets make it so you can shoot them then they are one of the most over powered things in game. So at the end of the day Mines do one of two things ether waste the time of the engineer or do nothing. I am glad they are removing the usefulness of mines as it brings them one more step closer to removing mines all together as they are a pointless thing in the PS2 universe.

(PS The change to mines now supports free kills more than ever as now when mines kill a sunderer it will be full and not empty.)

The way I want mines to be implemented is make it so one mine does say.. 10% of a Vanguard's hp. So roughly 10 mines to kill a Vanguard. That might be a bit much, so maybe 4 or 7 or something. It'd have to be tweaked. But it would take several mines to kill a vehicle. They would not be allowed to be attacked. They would have a minimum deploy distance, so say a 1 meter spread between mines. An engineer can have 2 certs. First cert gives him 15 mines, second cert gives him another 15. He can place all 30 at the same time (all rough numbers, hence why I'm changing them). To reward this support role (it is a support function, same as repair or ammo boxes), when a mine detonates it gives the engineer say.. 5-10 xp. Damage to ground vehicles xp sort of deal.

So even if your minefield doesn't kill anything, if vehicles get hit by it, you still get rewarded. And depending on their method of clearing, you may very well get a lot of xp if they choose to take a designated mine clearing vehicles and run over your minefield.

A minefield, and mines, these are not kill weapons. You do not get kills with them. If you want kills you grab a rocket launcher. Mines are a SUPPORT weapon. You use them to support your team and help them kill the enemy. Sure some tank going 70 kph down a hill may not stop fast enough and thus die to your minefield. But that isn't their purpose. Mines should be area denial. They should slow down enemy advances to give you time to bolster a defense. They should be used to trap enemy armor columns so they can be ambushed by HA's. They shouldn't be used for suicide runs.

In this post I explain how mines should work. And minefields would be viable. This isn't about sundies, at least not for me. This is about a broken weapon. I don't care if "good" sunderer drivers don't have a problem with mines. I care that mines are broken and need to be fixed.

Mines shouldn't be destroyable by shooting. The only way to get rid of them should be to intentionally trigger them by driving a vehicle over it, aka a mine clearer. Such as a tank with mineguard 4. Or to send engineers in to clear the mines one by one. You could even let the engineers keep the recovered mines. Minefields have a great place in PS2, they just need to be implemented.

It rewards bad, awful, and otherwise whiny people.

Whaa something killed me, MUST BE NERFED.

Something killed you? IN MY PLANETSIDE?! THIS WILL BE DEALT WITH! - SoE

LOL cater to me? HAHA I play for myself, I dont demand nerfs, I dont need to be hand held. If I use a sundy it isn't for the piddling exp, an I never leave it, cos.... shock horror I DEFEND IT... wow!! I know right?.....
I do love how you attempt to turn it on me, when we are at this sad pathetic state because of the entitled gen demanding that they be the focus of the game, as it isnt fair they need to make decisions.

I dont park under walls of a base, I dont park in open an I dont park under an overhang.. Guess what, I dont lose many sunderers, wow!!....Most of time I lose a sundy its to a tank or a TK'er

Well said mate, so well said it really is pathetic that we are at this point. Really sad how SOE did not learn from the cluster..... that was SWG.

You're so entrenched in your arrogant high horse that you don't even know what catering is. Of course you don't demand nerfs because you're perfectly fine with the mine as it is, it's already catering to players like you. But as soon as there's suggestions for change because other people want ask for it, you automatically stop stroking your swollen gamer ego, and flip the table saying everyone else is entitled and suck at the game. As soon there's change that threatens YOUR playstyle, YOUR opinion, and etc. you flip out and speak ill of others like a spoiled brat.

And I don't park my sunderers in those areas either, neither do many people, but guess what? It still doesn't take effort to press shift and run towards a sunderer! Even better if you have a spawning beacon to land directly next to a sunderer or do a gal drop.

Nerfing tank mines only encourages the lack of strategy most COD players face. Instead of punishing stupid sundy placement, they are encouraging it.

1) If you park your sundy at the base of a tower, you deserve to lose the sundy.
2) If you park your sundy at the base of the Amp Station wall, you deserve to lose the sundy.
3) If your platoon only brings 1 sundy, they are risking the success of the siege
4) If You don't invest points in minegaurd, you deserve to have your sundy destroyed by a dedicated engineer.
5) If your platoon only brings 1 sundy, parks it at the base of a wall, tower or spawn, and refuse to put minegaurd certs on it, you deserve to get owned by an engineer with half a brain.

If they go through with the nerf, idiots who fall under condition 5 fall under the same consequences as someone who invests in minegaurd, brings multiple sundies, and parks them in hard-to-reach-and-find places.