Nerfing Mines and C4 only Rewards bad players.

I think you're half right and wrong

It was both a combination of stupidity from players and bad design.
You know what's my biggest fear ?

That outifts start:
1. Unlocking 2x C4
2. Load up a Galaxy with Light Assaults
3. Drop on top of Sunderers
4. Break any attack ever

It's cheesy. Just like it's cheesy to abuse a tower grav lift to cancel fall damage, run up to a Sundy and blow it up. Or take a jump pad and stop halfway in the air with your jetpack and bomb the sundy. Or press instant action and directly drop on top of it. Or just anything with the Light Assault.
Cheesy tactics to fight an equally stupid AMS-spam.


GU4 fixed Instant action and Tower TPs somehow. And C4 bombing.
But since this is only one side of the problem, unless we have no-deploy zones, won't fix anything.

I'm ok with this change.

I personally rarely died to (suicide Engineer) mines in my tank, so i do think a lot of people that want them nerfed are just not careful enough. Deployed Sunderers are possibly an exception, as they are primary targets for such attacks and are immobile, though in my experience the problem still isn't as huge as some people seem to think it is (it may be server dependent).

But in the end, i do prefer mines to be a defensive weapon. Most of my AT mine kills are actually mines that i deployed BEFORE a region gets attacked. I don't find it hard to anticipate enemy armor movements (what i do hate is a random Flash wasting two mines...).

The question for me is whether we want those mines to be "low amount, high damage" or the reverse.

In the current state of this game i want them to be a high damage weapon that can insta-kill tanks. With the current lack of any real startegic gameplay, i just wouldn't build big minefields.

Once this strategy aspect is finally here (in whatever form) and the frontline doesn't move across an entire continet and back within an hour, i will gladly help with time consuming preperations of minefields and other defensive positions.

I do wish though that people would stop arguing about real life mines and the definition of the term mine.
They do what they do in this game. The only relevant questions are what impact they have on this game and what impact people want them to have on this game.

they are called limpet mines

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limpet_mines

What is the argument here? This somehow rewards bad players?

So, one players runs/fly to an target, throws C4, dies, now C4 is useless.

Another player carefully stalks target, attacks, throws C4, triggers it, and target it destroyed.

So, who is the bad player, and who is the good player?

I mean, IF you have any degree of skill, you can throw your charges, and blow them up without dying. If a person parks a sundie in a bad place, it will still be destroyed by a skilled player. It won't be destroyed by a bad player who sprints though a dozen defenders, who dies while throwing his C4, and then expects to be able to blow it up after respawn.

800 mines * 75 Infantry resources = 60,000 Infantry resources

better start saving up!

If I had access to the vehicle, I'd do it. If for no other reason then to put a ring of death around the Crown. Expensive? Yes, but it'd be sooo worth it.

and thats why they removed the C4 not dissapearing which was a good idea but the other stuff no.

It rewards bad players because before they couldn't just drive their sundy next to object, leave and enjoy form endless XP. Those bad players were quickly eliminated by good players, usually by mines. Now mines are going to be nerfed so that stationary vehicles don't blow AND mines cannot be shot. Every single person can just drive their sundy into the base and there is nothing engineers can do. With C4 thing is that it takes time to place and time to be triggered, which is ********. C4 won't insta-kill Sunderer and with blockade C4 next to useless. The whole despawning C4 is stupid, I mean I die, my C4 dies, how does that make any sense?

And exactly how is that my or my mines fault?

A "good" player isn't going to get killed attempting C4, so there's no nerf there. The change only affects those kamikaze "don't care about death" players that make suicide runs to toss frisbee tank mines or lay C4 carelessly just so they could blow up a vehicle after they've died and respawned.

A good player will be just fine planting & detonating C4. A good engineer will also do fine having the mines in place ahead of the time, because there are only so few places vehicles will park to be deployed, and even fewer routes for vehicles to roam from point A to point B.

Stop exaggerating, the OP's post is completely wrong, the opposite is actually happening with the changes to C4, and the upcoming changes to AT mines.

This.

The long-overdue nerf simply punishes kamikaze cheesers. LAs and clever Engineers will still blow up vehicles of all sorts. They'll just have to put a bit of thought and effort into it.

Geez, it's almost as if an engineer's role was never meant to be sundy killer nor was mines meant be glorified C4's.

It's also almost as if there's another class dedicated entirely for anti-armor!

SHUT UP YOU'RE BAD BECAUSE YOU PARK A SUNDERER IN A PLACE THAT AN ENGINEER CAN RUN UP TO AND MINE AND YOU NEVER GUARD YOUR SUNDERER WITH A SQUAD OF PEOPLE TO TRY TO SHOOT ONE GUY BEFORE HE LEFT CLICKS TWICE AND YOU NEVER LEAVE THEM THERE THE WHOLE TIME TO GUARD BECAUSE OF ONE GUY AND YOU NEVER USE SKILL OR THOUGHT IN ANYTHING YOU DO BECAUSE CLICK CLICK BOOM REQUIRES SKILL AND YOU'RE BAD AT THE GAME.

That was sarcasm.

Single mines are not a minefield - stop claiming they are area denial weapons when they cannot perform that job.

whats worse?
the person who sprints up to a sunderer and manages to toss down c4 but dies shortly after...
or the dozen of defenders that couldn't manage to Kill him before he got to that point...


you've just punished the player with a slightly higher degree of skill Just because he was better then the defenders.

This game is punishng being smart. It is degrading into yet another "CoD-like mouse 'skills' shooter".

Yeah! Dumb kiddies were suffering from people who outsmarted, flanked and blew up their sunderers.

Nope, it would require the safety timer to expire, than BOOM! When you place explosives IRL, they usually have a triggering device and a safety device. Safety timers will not allow them to be triggered for some predefined amount of time necessary to get out of harm's way.

Then you can use proxy detection, radiocontrol, whatever else you need to trigger it. Trigger activates the detonator, detonators blows up the main HE charge.

If you had some basic military training, you'd know that.

So the way AT mines work now is perfectly realistic. But dumb stupid idiots don't like when smart players blow up their moronically placed unguarded sunderers.

I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing the game not real life. In a game it's about balance over realism. The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but balance comes first. It's not balanced to give a single soldier the ability to one-shot a tank. If you try to justify this kind of broken weapon by going "lol magnet trigger" that's cool, but there has to be a balance, a downside, a con. Sure you can throw a mine at a stationary tank and make it blow up. The problem is it detonates instantly and kills you, good for suicide bombing but not much else. BALANCE!

Also, bringing in real life to a discussion about game mechanics and then going "lol if u had sum basic militari traenin" just makes you sound like an arrogant *******. I know how mines in real life work. I don't need some armchair general to lecture me. But the thing is, I wasn't talking about real life. I'm talking about the game. Something you should keep in mind before trying to sound superior.

Lastly, while they may be realistic some "dumb stupid idiots" don't like being forced to cert a mineguard or forced to miss out on a battle to guard a sundy because one lone engineer might run up and insta-kill it with mines. Realism isn't an excuse for you to have an overpowered weapon that ruins gameplay.

You can kill several friendlies without getting weapon locked.

I love how people think it takes skill to suicide yourself onto an enemy vehicle taking it with you.