Nerfing Mines and C4 only Rewards bad players.

I am more concerned with how anybody can sprint past a MAX, drop a C4, and receive an instant kill. And there's rarely any risk involved unless it's a Hacksaw MAX.

I'm fine with how C4 affects vehicles. Planetside 2 is a very open world, and it can be a challange to approach enemy vehicles.

Although MAXes are currently too vulnerable to it, and people will frequently discard their guns in favor of bombing them. Heck, even discard their Rocket Launchers and just C4 them instead.

Absolutely nothing of what you've said has any contextual sense other than it being your opinion. Not that your arguments are poor or inarticulate, or that I don't agree with a variety of the points, but rather that they are not based on anything but opinion. Do you have anything else to it?

You say this as if every single post on these forums aren't based off opinion. Including yours.

This upcoming change is a brutal, if indirect, nerf to C4. With mines only triggered by moving vehicles, all AMS Sunderers will switch to Blockade Armour (where will the cries of "waaahh there shouldn't be a defensive cert that everyone uses!" be then I wonder). This will mean that three C4 will be required for a kill, so LAs will no longer be able to kill a Sunderer.

Considering this whole thread hinges on an official tweet that AT mines are no longer going to explode because they were dropped and armed next to a stationary vehicle, I find that point moot. If we talk about how the game works, or fails to work, I would rather it be based on how the developers have ruled on something. Even if I like your points, I would rather parrot them from the position of quoting someone with more clout.
That is why I am asking if you, indirectly, are.

Not to worry, LAs. Engineers will expensively kamikaze Sunderers in memory of your months of faithful service.

It depends, actually. If they make mines into actual minefields, you'd still see AMS' with mineguard. You'd get CE's throwing down massive and very thick minefields on the only route to a facility, this may very well become a common occurance. So your options will be to throw mineguard on your sundy so that you not only don't die by inadvertantly driving into these minefields, but can also help clear them out faster. Or you rely solely on engineers slowly disarming them one by one.

Obviously if they just change the way mines are triggered and don't allow us to place more of them, then yeah mines become worthless and nobody needs mineguard. But minefields have always been very real threats in real life and that should, and would hold true in PS2 if we could actually create them. Imagine a 100 meter long minefield with mines you can't hardly see and that could kill you in 5-7 hits. You'd be stuck for a very long time if you manage to stop quickly enough, and then you're just asking to die to an ESF.

How the developers rule things has no bearing, ever. I remember back in beta when literally EVERYBODY was complaining about how galaxy AMS' ruined gameplay, made the ground battle pointless since you just flew right over it. You know what the devs officially stated? "It's working as intended". Literally, word for word that was their response. You know what they did? Changed it two weeks later after we continued to complain. Just because the devs say something doesn't make it true. And ultimately the game is shaped by our opinions, because we're the ones playing it and if my opinion of the game is that it's broken and terrible, I wont play it. And if a lot of people share that opinion, the game flops.

There's no details given about the mine change. Nothing to discuss. So EVERYTHING in this thread is opinions, even if those opinions were sparked by a tweet, they're still just opinions. And even if we had any official news, it'd be opinions of that news. Everything is opinions. So I really do not understand why you're even making these points.

Ultimately. All we can do is voice our problems with the games and propose changes and hope the devs listen. That new hex/lattice change? That was an idea proposed back in beta. That was an opinion, there was no official statement on it. No solid facts. Just a player going "I feel this is wrong and I think this is how it should be fixed" and now 4-5 months later sony is actually using that idea. Opinions matter and they don't need more clout, they just need solid reasoning and to be well received.

The nerf on C4 impacts more then you think.

That having C4 be removed on death greatly reduces the effectiveness of C4 to the point of impotence. You can no longer place traps on key points with C4 in preparation of an upcoming assault as any death removes all placed C4. This means the only use of C4 is relegated to suicide bombing where you instantly detonate after you place the second one.

the removal of C4 on death removes its team synergy in sunderer popping in tandem with HA rocket launchers. Placing 2 C4 then having a friendly shoot the C4 to set it off + the rocket to instantly destroy a Sunderer was a common tactic used, as there is a sizable delay between deployed C4 and being able to Detonate C4.

the effectiveness of the current in game tool is no where near the 100 Infantry Resource and 400+ cert investment required to unlock it.

also, +1 meter to the interior blast radius isn't entirely effective considering that it is still well below the interior blast radius of most all other high explosives.

It takes more skill to do it without suicidal to plant the charges.

Your argument is literally invalid.

These changes need to happen. Mines are being used as C4 and C4 is way too easy to score free kills with.

Lets nerf mines because people are too stupid to buy rank 1 mineguard

-Sony

I feel you are not understanding the role of C4. C4 should not be used in traps. Anti-Personnel mines are used in traps. C4 is used to destroy or weaken hard targets. You run up to a sundy and throw down some C4 to massively weaken it (NOT destroy it, C4 should not enable any one soldier to destroy a vehicle) thus making it far easier for tanks, libs, esfs, HAs, to destroy it and finish it off. C4 is used to quickly destroy turrets... assuming turrets were something that actually required it and weren't worthless garbage easily destroyed by everything else.

C4 is not a go-to explosive for every situation. It is not something that gives you an I-win button against a tank, even if the tank kills you. In PS2 C4's primary role is an anti-max weapon. Even one C4 can horribly wreck a MAX unit, making it drop to a bloody pistol. The problem isn't with C4, C4 is similar to infiltrators. It isn't broken, it's just the game doesn't give you any reason to really use it. C4 is working as intended, you need to nag sony to implement more things that require C4 to blow up, beyond getting cheap kills against tanks and sundies.

Let's nerf mines because they're being used as anti-tank grenades and not mines. They are also forcing players to choose one cert, something we do not want. Players should be able to choose the cert that fits their playstyle and not be forced down one path because of a broken weapon.

-Sony.

Or because you can use them like grenades. The mines aren't being used by mines. Needs to be a functional change to make them be used like real mines.

and yet here we are, still saying things. And the devs are still saying things, and changing things.

All sounds nice in theory but the devs have said nothing about this. The other thing is that you only need one Mineguard vehicle in a column to do this job, and it doesn't even need to be a Sunderer. It's better if it *isn't* the Sunderer as you want the LA-defeating Blockade Armour on when you park up right next to the base. The other aspect is that, a mine is worthless unless it can kill a stock vehicle instantly. If a mine wounds a vehicle, it stops, repairs, continues. Yes you might slow it down, but compared to blowing the vehicle up, getting the kill, getting xp, forcing the driver to go get a new one? I know which I pick. I'm not investing all those infantry resources and getting nothing out of it.

Even if they go for this massive minefield thing, give me 10 mines to deploy, but make it take 5 mines to kill a Sunderer, do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to put 5 mines in one place and 5 mines in another. What's the difference between that and right now where I put 2 mines in one place and 2 in another? Nothing.

Why because you say so? Or maybe you would like to argue about how it's ~unrealistic~ in a game featuring hover tanks powered by nanites. They serve a purpose and fit into a balance-counter balance scheme which is ALREADY DESIGNED AND FUNCTIONAL.

Remove mineguard and make a single mine a kill and I'm fine with this change. Otherwise you functionally remove the weapon. Just delete it and give us certs back.

And none of them are designed to be thrown like a frisbee and detonate immediately. It's a mine, not an anti armour grenade.

Unless something is done to make Sunderers less overpowered, I can't really support changes that make Sunderer spam more viable. As it is, every mook can start playing and within a few hours unlock the strongest unlockable in the entire game. Without AT mines to worry Sunderers, Sunderers move on to become the strongest tank in the entire game as well with maxed out blockade armor and Fury turrets. All they need to do is drive backwards. Blockade armor brings the armor rating in the rear to 30%, which is even better than the Vanguard's 38% or 33%. Because of how locational damage is calculated in the game, as long as its rear is facing towards the enemy it doesn't matter if they manage to hit the sides, it's considered rear damage. Compounded by having 750 more health than MBTs to boot, Sunderers will beat MBTs handily 1 on 1, and can spawn all the infantry they want to as well. It also lacks a weak spot, as even if the 30% is circumvented, it still has 43% on all other sides. A Sunderer can drive right past a MBT if it wants to and expose its rear; after all that's the least vulnerable part of its body! Meanwhile the MBT is exposed and easily destroyed because of the 120% damage bonus it takes there.

Why stop with one, either? Get together and get 20, 40, 60, as many as you want. Zerg with only Sunderers, it doesn't matter. You're not trading anything away, and gaining the ability to pull infantry no matter what the enemy does to try to stop you. Furys, Blockade Armor, AMS, and Racer is all you need to win the game. You can pull everyone and everything you need to counter anything. Air? Good thing every Sunderer is a terminal, a few spare players can pull AA MAXs and man turrets when there isn't air around to bother them. Tanks become a joke, and without needing to worry about silly infantry anymore with their AT mines and C4, you're left with HAs with rocket launchers which are even less effective than tanks and more squishy.

That's why I'm so leery about changing the way AT mines and C4 are used to destroy Sunderers. There's absolutely nothing else stopping this kind of steamroll at the moment.

Mine clearing vehicles are a staple of real life warfare. I see no reason why they wouldn't exist in PS2. Only instead of giant flails they're simply vehicles with max mineguard that clear a path. However you have to understand the purpose of mines and minefields. They're area denial weapons, NOT killing weapons. You don't place a minefield with the intention of getting kills, although that's certainly possible. You place it with the intention of stopping enemy movement. Even if you had an organized outfit with a mineguard clearing vehicle, if you had gotten multiple engineers to place a very large minefield, it would still take this outfit a while to get past it. Drive the mineguard vehicle forward, it manages to clear 7-10 mines before being forced to stop and repair. Meanwhile your minefield stretches for 100 meters and has over 100 mines in it. So congrats, that vehicle just cleared 1/10th of the entire field, now you have to sit there for a while and repair.

It wont force them to sit there all day, obviously. But it will massively slow them down and give you time to do something else. For example, while they're stuck from a minefield you can use this time to fortify your position. Mine up the entrance to a base, repair the turrets, get men in those turrets, generally just prepare for the attack. Or you can use it more offensively to ambush them. So you mined the hell out of the canyons in SE indar. While they're stuck and unable to move your HA's on the ridges can spam rockets down on them as they have nowhere to go. Thus allowing you to effectively wipe out a large force.

Lastly, as I said, mines wouldn't be able to be stacked for that very reason. You'd have to space them to make an actual minefield, not stack them all to get an insta-kill.

So ultimately, if this doesn't appeal to you, great, don't use it. Not every part of the game will apply to every player. If you only care about getting kills and xp, then mines obviously wouldn't be for you. Mines are a strategic weapon, not a tactical one. What you want is a tactical weapon with which to get kills and xp. Mines don't fit that. Mines are something outfits will use to curb zerg advances in ways I described above. Mines are things players will use to effect the outcome of entire battles. Mines are SUPPORT weapons. The players that would be using mines are the same players that run around healing people or repairing MAXes or throwing down ammo. They are not for people who are looking for kills.

This tactic still works so long as you stay dead on the ground. The moment you click the respawn button, the tactic is void. I did not get the chance to see if the C4 stays around if a medic revives me. RadarX stated that the C4 should only be removed upon respawn (no mention of revive).

It's a mine, not a grenade or a stick of C4. It's meant to defend and area, not be used as an offensive weapon.

What magical fairy land do you play this game in?