Nerfing Mines and C4 only Rewards bad players.

From the other side of the argument, since it is so poorly represented:

It takes a degree of Skill and Patience to find a safe route to a parked Sunderer during a heavy attack and taking the time to lay down some explosives. Not only that it takes a Very heavy Cert investment into a single class and a large sum of infantry resource as well, which is the one most used resource in the game for infantry level players.

With the Recent nerf to C4 we have not punished bad players for doing stupid things... We have Rewarded them.
What the Nerf has done is Punished Good Players for out-skilling, out-thinking, and out-doing their opposition.

Like it or not, it takes Skill to get to a parked Sunderer or Tank.

Nerfing C4 and Mines isn't punishing skill-less players... it is punishing players that have plotted a careful route through the enemy lines, exploited their oppositions poor perception, bypassed their defenses and managed to get point blank to a critical asset.

What it has Rewarded Bad players who will Park a Sunderer and Deploy an AMS or Drive a tank into a kill position with out any thought of his surroundings. Teams which have gaping holes in their lines which a single person can sneak through because every one is focused on getting points. It Reward the people that can not defend an asset and need a crutch against skilled attackers.

You should of been asking yourself: 'How did an engineer/LA manage to get point blank to my vehicle and deploy explosives?'

Meh, good players would still prevail, so stop it.

Sounds about the same as the extremely skilled Dalton gunner and rocket podders back in December.

The ability to STILL kill a tank after the driver or gunner has found and killed the LA was stupid and broken.
You can't ask how people got to your sundy especially when the zerg is spawning at it, the zerg is stupid and blind.

Mines needed to be fixed, C4 needed less fixing and doesn't need to be nerfed farther. Using mines as C4 was terrible and I'm glad they're fixing it.

Burn all sundys, burn them all. Make them cry harder.

Mines haven't exactly been nerfed yet, right? Or are you talking about the tweet Higby made?

tank mines are used like frisbees. its stupid.

The damage isn't the issue, its that people just throw them on vehicles and suicide. Sure thats fine for c4, but tank mines should take time to place and be armed.....

I don't really feel like a good player when I run towards an enemy sundy like a drone while holding mines, even when using "stealthy" routes that anyone knows it's mostly just pure luck.

Tank mines were terrible frisbees. You couldn't throw them more than a foot.

Why shouldn't C4 take time to place and be armed? Regardless, it did take time to arm them: 3-4 seconds between the time when it hit the ground and when they blew up.

Really, the only two valid arguments were that it was a cheap tactic (in a game of them ...) and that tank mines weren't behaving as people considered classical mines behaving. However, since even the developers intend that mines no be absolutely proximity based, there's nothing more to be said.

If you fail to get the c4 placed and detonated before you die you've failed, I don't see why you should still be able to destroy the vehicle after you die. It's like winning even though you lost

From my recent experience of gunning down players who were running around with tank mines the last thing you can say about them is that they are highly skilled players with a heightened awareness of their surroundings.

And now they intend for them to be detonated when run over like a traditional mine so there's nothing more to be said.

Especially considering that if you successfully gun them down, they WILL be back as soon as they can spawn.

3-4 seconds is not nearly enough time. Tank mines can be place on esfs and dropped on tanks/gals/sundies. Tank mines can be thrown off buildings, and tank mines can be dropped while falling. Its a mine, its meant to be buried in the earth....

and considering the developers are actively working on changing both C4 and mines, there is plenty more to be said. Why you said "there is nothing more to be said" is just beyond me.

But I already know the answer to that question.

I saw that engineer/LA running/flying over to our AMS, and I started shooting at him, but he ran into a crowd of friendlies who were completely oblivious, so I could no longer hit him without getting weapons locked, since there were an asston of people standing around the Sundy. That's not "out smarting" the enemy, that's escaping harm by abusing the fact that people's weapons get locked if they shoot their team mates.

Not to mention the fact that if you continue firing after said engi/LA has run into the crowd of friendlies, and you accidentally hit one or two of them, it draws all of their attention away from the engi/LA to focus on you, sometimes even firing back under the assumption that you were purposely trying to TK them.

Nerf? C4 got buffed. Had its inner radius increased with a whole meter (while pretty much every other explosive got its radius decreased) which helps a lot.

Oh, you are talking about the whole remove C4 on respawn thingy. Just glanced over that one as it only impacts bad players (and those who exploited the multi-run C4 exploit).

What was this thread about again?

Sounds like the same entitlement crap we have heard from every subgroup that was reaping the benefit of miss adjusted game mechanics since they nerfed AAA in Beta to show case vehicular combat for E3. Nothing new here......

That's funny. People were complaining when mines went beneath the terrain.

Because there really is nothing more to be said. They have already stated the use of AT mines as a short-range throw-grenade is going out. Before that, we had no official word and silence was taken as the statement that "it's working as intended." It obviously wasn't, or isn't anymore.

I do not begrudge this change but lament that it will probably not be paired with access to actual mine field building mechanics and a lack of usage punishment. I don't want to overwrite my mines every time I place a new one, additionally wasting resources with each mine whose location gets overwritten, or, if that must be done for the purposes for optimization, I would at least have liked a decent threshold to work with.

"traditional" landmines have been triggered by means other than pressure since World War II. Aside from being pressure activated land mines today can be magnetically triggered and triggered by electrical impulse.

Depends on the "nerf". Really. What I want to see with mines isn't a "nerf" in my eyes, it's actually a buff. But players who run around insta-killing vehicles would call it a nerf.

Mines should be actual mines. Each individual mine shouldn't do that much damage (10% of a Vanguard, for example) and the ONLY way they should detonate is from moving vehicles. If they're shot or blown up, they just vanish. They should be very difficult to see, easily missed by drivers. An engineer should get to be able to place 10-20 of them and they can't be stacked.

Basically, they should be used to create static minefields BEFORE the enemy arrives. Mines are an area denial weapon, not glorified C4. An engineer should mine a route to block vehicles, not run up and insta-kill a tank. I consider that a buff though since it gives engineers more unique gameplay options, gives them real ways to effect entire battles rather than getting cheap kills, and ultimately restores them back to their combat engineer status from PS1. But the players, the BAD players who rely on mines for cheap kills, they would call this a nerf. So really, this nerf hurts bad players and rewards good players, the exact opposite of what you claim.

Similar applies to C4. I feel it should take 3 c4 to kill a tank, meaning that one LA can't just float over you and kill you. One LA, no, one infantry should NEVER be able to take any vehicle from full to dead in one shot. Ever. Period. HA's, the official anti-vehicle class can't kill a tank in one shot. It takes a minimum of two rockets to the rear and each rocket takes like 5 seconds to fire off. Meanwhile a LA can fly, throw two C4 anywhere on the tank in less time than it takes a rocket to reload, and kill the tank. Why are LA's superior anti-tank than the official anti-tank class? That's broken.

So again, this nerf wouldn't hurt good players. Because good players would be using C4 properly, against MAX units or simply to massively hurt vehicles so their allies can finish them off. Only BAD players rely on C4 for cheap and easy kills against vehicles.

Your entire thread is simply down right false. It is as blatantly wrong as you can possibly be. The only players who rely on these cheap and broken weapons are bad players looking to get easy kills. GOOD players will adapt and use the weapons the way they are suppose to be used.

Would still require a vehicle to pass over the mine even if it was magnetically triggered. Otherwise, if they're magnetically triggered, why don't they detonate the second an engineer throws it under a sundy? Killing him before he can place a second one. I wouldn't mind that, actually. Sure you CAN place a mine directly under a vehicle but since it's magnetically activated, it instantly explodes and kills you before you can place a second mine. Fair enough?