Nerfing items paid for with SC is fraud

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Twistdlester, Mar 28, 2013.

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  1. Zenith

    Let's hope not, if we actually want the game to survive.
  2. satarc

    my do people think this/perpetuate the myth.

    seriously. you think that with all the data they gather as we play and all the money they spend on analising every action of evey player all the time they change an item by looking in this forum and reading the opinion of 0.000000000000000000000000000001% of the player base.
  3. EmJay

    EULAs and ToSs don't mean a thing if the country has good customer protection laws. EULAs and ToSs are not above the law and never should be. Since the weapons are software lisences and EU considers them equal to a real product then the same principles apply for software lisences as well. This includes possible recalls due to defects in the product which for software lisences are balance updates or updates into the game in general. If a recall is being called due to defect they are usually compensated in some way.

    But these problems belong to the marketing area. Were these weapons marketed as killing machines by the devs, marketing or by Sony? Or did you end up buying the weapon because you saw it racking lots of kills? The latter dismisses your claim for a refund.

    But if you were to be given a refund, it would also mean that your stats would be modified as well, all the gained certs would be taken away as well.

    But I think the best thing SOE could do is to give back 200 SC or 300 certs depending the purchasing choice.

    But I wish that people would be fair in demands for refunds and SOE would also be fair with the refunding. There isn't any good reason to make these things into big and bitter fights.
  4. 13lackCats

    I know. Review the roadmap. They are acting on the votes of people who populate the forums.

    Also, review the changelogs. Then, do forum searches for key words gained from the change logs. You will find tons of evidence. I won't be specific, as I am not biased against anything except easy gameplay.

    This is where the voice of the customer is.
  5. satarc

    there's a difference between using the road map and getting players to vote on possible changes to improve the game and the myth that they nerf items in the game because of negative feedback in the forum by small numbers of the player base.

    it only seems like it because of the correlation. e.g. Sony release an OP gun. in the forum people are discussing the OP nature of the gun but at the same time Sony are monitoring the data on the new gun. in game the number of users rises massively and has an effect on the overall averages they are after per gun in game (number of shots fired/hits/damage taken etc) and they then adjust the stats for the gun to bring it back in line with there numbers. the problem is that when the gun gets a nerf the forum population (a tiny number in the great scheme of things) thinks its because of the nerf threads. if you search for key words in the forum you are going to get positive results but they make changes of this nature based on data from the game.

    im not denying the fact that its bad business to release products that are obviously not tested fully for in game impact but if Sony start a test server (as has been hinted at) then this may be a solution to this issue.
  6. Rayden78

    I was lucky i bought the lancer ... it could only get better.
    • Up x 1
  7. 13lackCats

    OP is perception as much as reality.

    I have proof of the way the forums change the game.

    Do you have any proof that you truly know what Sony decision making process is?
  8. Deadeye

    Would it really be so bad if when they "rebalanced" a weapon they refunded the SC and/or certs spent on it? If someone doesn't mind the changes they can rebuy it. If they do, they can spend the cash/certs someplace else.

    By the logic some people are using here, if the phoenix were to become dumb fire, the striker only fired one missile at a time or the lancer lost its charge, then it would be ok because we clicked ok on the TOS.
  9. Deadeye

    Double post due to weird site problem for a moment. Sorry.
  10. Yago

    Hahaha I said the same thing last night (am planning on getting it today) .
  11. AltF4Fun

    Some people just never learn to hold back for a while.Its like with mines in a Biolab spawnroom after cap.They die and die and still havent learned a thing.Guess its the same with buying items in this game.
  12. satarc

    its the standard method in the industry. why would sony use a method that doesn't work (public opinion from a minority) and not the method that every one uses and is proven to work.

    have you read much about data collection and game design? big publishers like sony have invested a lot into the best way to collect data from players. the reason you see what you do is cos the forum is full of players who are hard-core and actually know what's OP and UP so they discuse it in the forum. its then change in game so you see the forum as the reason for the change. but its not. they coudnt give a monkeys what's said in this place. they dont even use it to communicate with us.

    do a google on the subject (if your interested) you may be suppressed out how games like this are made. its not how most people imagine. sony, EA etc are not paying software houses to make games cos they have a cool idea for a great game. they do it buy analysing huge amounts of data they have collected about all the people who play there games over the years and then every new product is tailored to capture more of the chosen market. e.g. white males up to 35 with a disposable income over a set amount who will, on average, spend $60 before moving on to the next good looking low content FPS and spending another $60 Ad infinitum.

    its no coincidence that FPS are all heading in the same direction. its lead by the data. more money means you need more players therefore the product has to satisfy the needs of a larger group. how many millions does it take to make a game like PS2 do you think? you have to have massive amounts of customers to pay for that.
  13. ChaosRender

    Problem there is do they remove all the exp you earned form useing the weapon up to that point? I could say buy a OP weapon use it for 2-3 week before a change is made get it to Auraxium medal and make a few hundred certs off it, and now because of the change I could sell it back a full price and use that SC to buy the new broken weapon.

    The problem here is people think they are due buffs and fixes to the things they buy in the store at no charge, but should not suffer any nerfs or balancing of the items. You cant have both, if you want the good you have to take the bad.
  14. RF404

    So how about the Lancer? Should they not have buffed that because ppl paid money for it and the change would mean that it no longer fits the description that it had when they bought it?
  15. 13lackCats

    Word salad. No proof.
  16. RF404

    While it would be a good practice to refund at rebalance you should keep in mind that it might not be as straight forward as it seems at first glance. Keep in mind that SC covers a bunch of other games than PS2. If they add that practice here they would have loads of disgruntled players in other games if they don't get refunds too.

    I'm not saying it is impossible or something they shouldnt strive for, but probably not as simple as just adding such a feature in PS2 alone.
  17. satarc

    seriously you could google it and find out for yourself.

    just one quote for you 'AAA multiplayer titles like Battlefield generates about 1Tb of data per day from in-game telemetry. - Electronic Art's Rajat Taneja

    and this is how the developers do the actual physical analysis as far as balancing like player density in areas of map/travel, bullets fired etc:
  18. Deadeye

    I thought of that very scenario you mentioned and ultimately I came to the conclusion that if people want to go from flavor of the month to flavor of the month, that is their decision. If Sony doesn't want people to do that then their choices are either bait and switch (OP at release for moniez then nerf later and/or release a better gun) or they can refund (which would be at least a noble jesture). Looks like they prefer bait-and-switch since that makes them more money.

    Either way, they should have a public test server set up so this business with the ESRLs never happens again (even if bait-and-switching is making more money for them).

    It would probably be very easy for them to do refunds. It's all just in the programming, probably wouldn't even take more than a day to impliment. But by enticing people with an OP weapon early so they get the cash fast then nerf it (the old bait-and-switch) is much more profitable for them.

    As far as setting a precedent for other games, well, if the're breaking stuff there, they should pay there too. If an item is changed, the customer should have a right to accept that change or get a refund and spend the money someplace else.

    Personally, I've got my pheonix, still like it and I've got the pump shotty because I like pump shotties since counterstrike but at this point, even if a weapon looks great and is OP at the start, I will be and encourage everyone else to wait a least a week probably 2 to see the community reaction and whether the thing is going to be nerfed or not. Until a better system is in place, we have to be better consumers, ourselves.
  19. Phrygen

    no, its not. You agree to the EULA
  20. eldarfalcongravtank

    no, because testing something under (ideal) laboratory conditions usually gives different results compared to testing it under 'real' world conditions (that is, the ps2 game world)

    they can never estimate all the effects one new weapon/vehicle/item has on gameplay in EVERY circumstance. they HAVE to adjust weapons/items if these happen to be too strong/weak ingame.

    if you buy something with station cash (like i do, and BELIEVE me i have seen MANY things go down the drain that i bought with station cash, like liberator or magrider effectiveness) you need to live with that risk of having something adjusted by the soe devs.

    keep that in mind if you buy something from the shop next time
  21. ChaosRender

    Where is the bait and switch I have only been playing since January and have yet to see one from SOE. I bought the first SMG, the AV turret and almost got a phoenix, and all of those still do there jobs just as intended. But most of all you are not buying a gun or RL you are buying the ability to use it so as long as you can use it you have what you paid for.
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