Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Zizoubaba, Aug 25, 2019.

  1. Zizoubaba

    wtf how can you let this go on for so long? it's a ***** joke?
  2. adamts01

    The Liberator ttk against ground vehicles is just fine. Ground options for dealing with air are the heart of the problem.

    On top of that, most ESF dont even bother engaging enemy libs because Hyenas are so OP, and noseguns barely tickle them. No decent pilots use air locks, and the Wyrm is too much of a one trick pony. Amd even if you do run those, they'll just land and out rep you.

    So yeah, not only does ground not have a decent way to kill them, air doesn't bother to fight them. It's all stupid. We need a dev that flies.
    • Up x 4
  3. LordKrelas

    How would a Dev that flies, fix the Ground interaction exactly?
    Sure, that might fix the ESF vs other Air issues, but not the ground's troubles.
    Unless, them specifically using it teaches them how piss-poor Both sides of the engagement is.

    We have VS devs, as an example; They're getting of late, the best toys.
    The one Faction missing is NC, whom has been nailed of late repeatedly, or forgotten.
    Hence the lack of faith, that a Dev that only flies, would do more than ensure the Fliers enjoy, rather than actually fix it fully.

    After all, aircraft weaponry has not had a record of poor performance..
    Maybe we need a Dev that Flies & Runs Anti-Air from the ground.
    Otherwise, what are the odds, that the Pilot-first mentality doesn't arrive, as obviously the ground-based devs aren't pissing on Pilots, given the... AA options for the ground, are pretty ham-fisted bad.

    But I agree, that we need someone to actually look into the damn problem.
    Rather than shaft people, but actually fix it.
  4. ObiVanuKenobi

    Have you tried flying the Liberator?
    • Up x 1
  5. Liewec123

    Libs can be annoying if there is no AA around to ward them off,
    but the damage output is waaaaay more balanced now than it used to be,

    Just watch the first 20 seconds of this old video (I really miss iGoRawr!)

    I once had a gimmick char who I was trying to get to 100 without a single death,
    I was playing totally cheesy, long range MBT, as a stalker infil, super safe,
    I got to 30 something and then one day BOOM a lib got me from behind with prenerf tankbuster,
    Dead before I could even bail.

    Lib damage is pretty balanced imho, it used to be way out of whack!
  6. Zizoubaba

    @adams and @Liwec I think what you're saying is more accurate.

    What makes Lib encounters with ground OP isn't so much their damage, but the lack of counter, ie: the lack of damage the ground can do to Libs.

    This is mostly from the point of view of defending a sundy, but also from tanks (not AA tank).
    • Up x 2
  7. adamts01

    That's exactly the key. So far their only solution has been to tune flak damage. I just don't think the answer lies in that mechanic. No matter the damage, it's never fun to fly against, same with lock ons. Ground needs a direct damage killing weapon with proper damage drop-off.

    I also think default launchers need the Striker mechanic, but with a damage nerf against ESF and Valks. New players are boned, and VS adnd NC don't have nearly the AA ability as TR.

    On the Liberator side of things, I'm actually leaning towards a Dalton damage drop off. That gun is the single reason AA needs to be so effective at range. The Dalton is one of my favorite things in the game, so that nerf would make me a little sad, but it's the only high dps long range air weapon, and nerfing it would let AA be tuned to severely drop off after 450 meters, or about 1 Hex.

    The only other thing that's a little too strong on the Lib are Hyenas. Most of it's other guns could actually use a buff.

    Yeah. I think all tanks need a much higher range of motion on all guns. At the expense of AP rounds getting the Dalton treatment vs ESF. The bassi, halberd, Vulcan, saron, mj.... They all need to do much more damage against air.
    • Up x 1
  8. AlcyoneSerene

    I have to ask the same thing, have you tried flying the Lib a lot? It is a menace on off-hours with lower pop if you have a 3-man crew who coordinates and has learned to work together, but try pulling one to destroy anything on the ground with a lot of armor around, you'll be receiving non-stop flak and tank shells from every hill.

    I don't find Hyenas to be all that since at anything but close up or against inexperienced pilots flying in a straight line, and it takes just 2 experienced ESFs (vs experienced 3-man lib crew) to chase a lib down repeatedly. The Wyrm is no joke either. Lock on A2A received nerfs, I don't own any so don't know its state now, but they too were a menace for any ESFs that decided to give a Lib a hard time doing anything.

    Liberators already received a nerf to removing nose gun gimbal other than the Spur which was always meant to have one.
  9. Jbeasty

    They are quite literally a non issue (for ground) if people do something about them. Problem is, the only thing 90% of the player base cares about is the infantry mosh pit on the point, usually leaving their sundy/vehicles unprotected. Most heavies forget they even have a rocket launcher, but when they don't, usually they pull a useless lock on, rather than even getting in the sunderers walker/ranger/basilisk which would do far more damage.

    Unpopular opinion, but I find AA fun when you play offensively, excluding lockons or burster maxes.
  10. adamts01

    I used to love drivjong a skyguard back when you could rush another lightning or a Harasser and actually be a threat. This rock-paper-scissors approach CAI took sucks.
  11. LordKrelas

    If they remember they have a rocket-launcher... They'd not be in the Sunderer as them remembering it wouldn't matter.
    And not sure if you remember: Every anti-air launcher past the Masume is a lock-on if you aren't TR.
    -- So I'm not sure if the Pilot should be called not AFK, Daft, or oblivious, if a low-velocity dumbfire nailed them.

    And that assumes of course, the Sunderer has an angle, and isn't targeted by the pilot.
    You know, if they were a Liberator, that Sundy is dead.
    If an ESF, that Sunderer is not a merciless killing machine; if the ESF sits still & tries to tank every bullet.. we might as expect the Pilot to be solely-to-blame-for-their-death if that is a Bassie.
    If a ranger or Walker, I'm amazed that Sunderer was in range of infantry, before a tank nailed it.

    Offensively, against Air, which is mobile, and typically begins every engagement - As it can out-run anything.
    Come from any direction, and retreat from any fight.
    That's like rolling dice, to find Air that will not instantly retreat.
    But could be fun, assuming less of a typical waiting-game, otherwise;
    That's a lot of idle prayer to not die to the other 99% of opponents on the field.

    (That's how specialized AA is, you're kinda dead to everything else, and your single target type, can literally evade any AA.
    Which means, to have it, is to be easily killed by everything else, and have your intended target not be there for 90% of the time.
    Which is sorta why people don't carry around AA weapons everywhere they go; It's kinda suicide.)
    • Up x 2
  12. AllRoundGoodGuy

    Not gonna lie, my HA loadout always has the aa launcher. I never kill anything with it, but 9/10 times I can annoy whatever farmer is up there so I can get to the fight safely.
  13. adamts01

    It's good to hear a ground player admit that most air won't even consider fighting against flak in its current state.

    It's completely OP, but explaining that to someone who uses it and can't get kills with it is tough.

    Flak is possibly the worst thing for the vehicle game, for air and ground.
  14. Jbeasty

    What? lol...
    I still can't believe how few people use the lancer for that purpose. Incredibly easy to hit libs and AI ESFs with it. The faction that really gets screwed in infantry vs. air is NC.
  15. LordKrelas

    Poorly worded while tired, basically if they're entering a Sundy, their class is completely irrelevant.
    Since it doesn't matter when using a Bassie, what your class was unless it was a MAX.

    People actually remember the Lancer isn't useless? Miracle.
    Though it doesn't hold a candle to the Striker.
  16. Jbeasty

    Sure, but I was just trying to make the point that players don't choose the best options versus air, seemingly more often than not. Heavies pulling lockons, are just one example. And the worst part is, they don't even bother with it until that certain AI lib/ESF kills them once, otherwise they ignore them, letting them farm. Too many times do I see AI air just floating above the fight completely unhindered...

    Highly disagree. ESFs can flare/dodge strikers all day as well as having more time to use their fire extinguisher, especially if they are good pilots. Lancer cannot be flared, and even great pilots cannot dodge that and line up a shot simultaneously. 3+2 charge (the 2 charge is quick enough to hit them as they react to the first shot most often) and they are dead. Even if you only hit once, they are so low they have no choice but to run or die. Granted, it does take a higher level of skill, but as an average player myself using a 450 m/s launcher, it isn't anywhere beyond reason. I feel vulnerable with even the striker now by comparison.

    In the case of libs, the striker fares better, but it also is a very easy target to hit with the lancer and there is no indicator of lockons and it is harder to trace the source of the heavy, while most pilots/gunners will easily see the striker balls. I'd at least put it on even footing with the striker here. Striker would only prevail if that lib practically floated in place from 100-0.

    There should be an NS variant of the lancer imo. At least some sort of non lock on faster trajectory launcher.
    • Up x 1

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