I made a video showing how i play. If you are ever bored, you can watch this and tell me what you think and how i could improve. I hate how my KD went from 2.2 on heavy assault to 1.2 average. I love the playstyle, but i want to kill more so it feels rewarding. i feel stopid now playing the class. Note i only want to play the SMG style infiltrator. I'm thinking about going stalker, but then i basicly only have 6 shots from 3-4 have to be a hit or im dead. And my aim isn't really good. I come from this thread were i already was recommended a good blade and SMG. but i want to fix my playstyle. im clearly doing something wrong. https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/vs-infiltrator-questions.234361/
A disclaimer first: I haven't yet played much SMG-infil (maybe about 2k kills with different smgs on my main and other faction alts in total). I think more experienced infils can give you more specific advice (which I will also gladly listen to). To me it looks like you play infil like you prolly play HA. Infil is not a frontal assault class, unless you're very skilled. In my personal opinion, you should flank/attack from unexpected directions much more, than try the frontal assault. In addition to that, when playing heavy, you must have noticed how ridiculously loud the cloak is? When you're going in very close range with SMG, you need to be aware of that and think if it is necessary to cloak/decloak and/or worth the risk of exposure because of the sound. You should also use your recon tools more, they are replenished from ammo packs. So basically, if you have an ammo pack near and are not infiltrating behind enemy lines, spam away. But remember, they can give your position away also. It seems to be a nice trap to place a motion spotter somewhere and mine the "entry". The spotter lures the enemy to the mines. Remember also that the SMG is not very effective at longer ranges and that is very much compounded if your aim is not good (just like me). I saw you often try to engage enemy at long ranges with the SMG. You will just give your position away and draw attention to yourself.
I don't play SMG too, but I think Sir Cypher nailed the main problem in your gameplay. You don't fight ennemies head-on when you play an infiltrator. I'll give a review of the first 5mn: 1:00 You are moving in an opening field uncloacked There is no reason to do this. The hunter cloak recharges fast, and is efficiency to prevent long-rang opponent to spray bullets at you when you cross the field. As a result, you loose half of your life without any true gain 1:10 You notice that you are near of ennemies You should probably try to get some intel of the situation. You're almost alone, you don't know where ennemies are and where, and the hunter cloak doesn't last long. Lay a motion spotter here would have helped you to figure your options BTW, motion spotter tend to be more useful for rambo infiltrator than recon darts. Because it gives you also intell on the direction they are currently looking at. 1:15 That infiltrator is indeed a tempting target But are you sure it was wise to attack him like that? Sure, he got cloaking delay as a disadvantage, but the HA in his back is a serious threat to you when you have no shield and about 40% hp left. If he hadn't a poor aim, you would have been killed for sure. 1:20 You're suicidal The HA noticed you, When an ennemy sees you, avoid to try to hide in his 160 front angle. You're not wearing a stalker cloak, but a hunter one. You're going to get caught, and even if you don't, given this situation, you're not in position to win: your cloak is a bit depleted, your shield is still down, your hp is low, you're a bit too far to get the most of your weapon, your opponent is aware and has overshields... As a tip: the only time when you shoot at someone from the front with a rambo infiltrator is when your weapon is fully loaded and you are close enough to get the most of your SMG. As long you are not an expert, however. You should have fled, or jump above the rail to land behind this HA. You only survived due to the help of that ally. 1:30 Moving slowly with a hunter cloak ...is in 90% of the circumstances, useless. You're not a lot less noticeable doing it, and you deplete your cloak. If you want to hide, play a stalker cloak. 1:50 Wasting ammo SMG suck at the distance you are shooting at. This is not an LMG, you have better to do than spraying bullets on targets that are that far, plus, you could get killed. 2:00 Hiding in a corner... ... is not for the hunter cloak. It is very unlikely that a SINGLE guy with come before the time your cloak depletes. You have more luck to have several guys coming, you cloak depleting and... hmm... well, what did I predict? The rambo infiltrator (a nickname for SMG+hunter cloak user) is a very dynamic playstyle. It works poorly by hiding and such. Like HA, it gets better result once you learned to be almost ever on the move. 2:40 There is that guy shooting afar Don't slow down. You're -not- going to kill him from that far. Run, try to flank him. You should have take immediatly that turn right, run around that pillar, and try to get a shooting angle at it from a bit of the side. 2:45 Wasted EMP 'nade You will learn that your allies almost NEVER get the opportunity to kill someone you EMP like that. EMP grenades have a lot of uses, that's sad if you just throw it for nothing. 3:00 Hide and seek That's a good thing you flank people like that, but you're playing like a stalker there. You cloak is not very efficient to camp hidden spots, and your weapon is not very efficient from this distance. It worked because you flanked them right, but that's a dangerous play with the gear you're using 3:20 Ouch... You moved too much in an open area without cloaking, once again. You must gain the reflex to cloak as soon there is many long range LoS possible on you, and uncloak as soon there is not. This is not an absolute rule, but this is something you should probably to start to get used to. Also, learn that after having killed two guys from the same position, the position is never safe anymore. Kill one, kill two if you want, but after that, people will start to come straigth where you are, including the two you just killed. 3:40 Your'e suicidal (take 2) Seriously, forget this idea to shoot at heavy armored things (HA/Max) from distance with a SMG and from the front. It will never do you good, unless you are very very lucky. 5:10 You're not as invisible you think Moving like you are there, you are almost as visible from anyone potentialy in that room that if you weren't cloaked. The hunter cloak prevents spotting, and long-range detection... not much close range one, so when you cloak, move fast. Because close opponents will still a huge threat 5:20 Lack of intell killed you Everytime you evolve near places with a lot of corners and visual obstacle, you should try to use your recon tools. This is where you are the strongerst as a rambo infiltrator: you can know where people are behind corners and walls, and then use those corners and walls agains them. You should have not died from this guy, he should have died from you, evolving alone in that place with no support. You needed just to land one of your recon tool to be able to do that. As a little summary of this review, try to remember those global tips, when you play rambo infiltrator: - You're a CQC fighter not a long range one. If you see targets far away, don't shoot, get closer. - Shooting from the front is always bad. Do it only when this is that or be killed. In any other circumstances, there is probably a better option. - What allows you to ambush people is not your cloak, but your recon tool. The recon tool say you where enemies are without allowing them to know where you are, and flank/back them. The hunter cloak is a tool to move around and flee, not to ambush people like the stalker cloak can be. - EMP grenades are a tool to help yourself, not others. It almost never work when you try to help other with it. EMP grenades are very helpful to others only when you use it to destroy ennemy beacons.
Oh, and forgot in my first post. In the end of the video you wondered how did that one enemy see you when you were crouch walking. Hunter cloak is NOT invisible. Not even crouching. The cloaks are actually ridiculously easy to spot in close range when you are moving. Even stalker cloak crouched is not *completely* invisible. Your best bet is to treat all movement (even when cloaked) as unsafe movement, and try to use terrain and cover to block line of sight as much as possible.
Moonheart made some good points. I won't go into such detail, but having watched the first 5 minutes, here is some broad advice: The fight you're at isn't favorable for SMG infiltrating. You're out-popped 2 to 1, making close-range flanking incredibly risky. There are lots of enemies with nothing better to do than look around, and since most of your allies are in or around the spawn room, you've got basically no backup. Due to the base layout, you're forced to go far out of your safe zone to kill anything with a close-range weapon. If it were me, I'd either sit back and snipe or take a semi-auto scout rifle for this fight. These give you a lot of flexibility in engagement range. Look around more. A lot of your deaths are due to offscreen fire from an enemy you never saw. In the same vein, you should use your recon tool constantly. Knowing where the enemy is is key to not getting shot. I'd highly recommend maxing your motion spotter and using that instead of darts. It gives you higher quality info, including your target's facing, which is invaluable for sneaking up behind people. They last a lot longer than darts, which is both a convenience and assurance that you won't run out in one lifetime. The spotter itself can be used as bait for ambushes, as well. Why aren't you using medkits, or at least a regen implant? Keeping yourself at full health is key to maximizing your chances of surviving the next engagement. In general, you're trying to play too sneaky. With the hunter cloak, you can't afford to sit and wait for an easy target to walk by or for a threat to go away. Stay on the move and just assume anyone close by can see you. The cloak is still valuable, of course, but it's a tool for closing the distance rather than a "hide in plain sight" ability. If you really want that sneaky play style, stalker is the only way to go. It's a punishing play style, though, since sidearms all have severe limitations of some kind.
The best advice I ever can find to tell to ANY new infiltrator is: When you move, consider that ANY foe under the 15m range see you exactly if you were fully uncloaked. Something that many people don't know is the fact that human eyes and brain are geneticaly designed to spot movement. Anything moving immediatly draws attention of any human being... no matter if its color and shape is hard to notice. You will see a almost perfectly transparent glass which is thrown before you as surely as if it was a brick of concrete that is thrown. The guy the OP killed at 1:00 of its video is a good exemple: who, looking at this video, didn't notice his presence despite of his cloaking? Almost no one, I bet. So, if the hunter cloak is not done to prevent people noticing you (since only stalker cloak is suited for staying still), what is it use?, some people could ask The main very first use of every infiltrator cloak is to prevent other opponents to track you. It's very hard to track a cloaked opponent because you can't spot that opponent, and thus, he won't appear on the radar without the support of a recon tool, and following exactly its moves is harder due to them being blurred. As soon that kind of opponent breaks your line on sight by turning around any corner, you have 90% chances to loose track on him if he plays right. The infiltrator cloak is primarily a tool meant to help you to prevent people to retaliate on you after you killed a target. The stalker just "vanishes" from sight before people turn to him, the sniper "strafes" to prevent a counter-sniper to aim at him, the rambo "withdraw" and makes everyone running after him go all "****! where is he gone?!?" after just a few turns. The basic strategy of any infiltrator-type could be summed up as this: 1- Figure where the ennemy is without him knowing where you are 2- Shoot at the choosen target in a way that prevent them to retaliate and kill it 3- Cloak and make other opponents to loose track of you, to prevent them to counter attack Only the stalker cloak works in a way that truly helps in steps 1 and 2. For all cloaks, the main use is during the step 3.
So if i understand correctly, the cloak of the hunter is less invisible then the stalker one? I should just walk instead of crouch? (unless getting put on the minimap by a enemy recon device) Also about the recon darts vs the thing you place on the ground: while the thing on the ground lasts longer and gets better info, it also is prone to destruction, and it has to be placed where i am. if i enter a building, i can scout out already with a dart whats going on inside that building. Im not sure if i should really go for the motion spotters you place on the ground. I have to be there to place the device, and it might already be too late then. i might still escape if its crowded, but then it will be a wasted device. it also cannot get stocked up by ammo. I have a side question about your tip to go behind the enemy at 1:20. he spotted me, so he will see me on the minimap right? Or will i disappear the moment i cloak for a second from the minimap? When i shoot targets from far away, i do know i need luck to kill them. but i might get the last shot needed to steal the kill from team mates. i just think that i am save there, and i can just retreat a bit and be safe. but usally a enemy i missed sees me firing and kills me then.
They're actually equally visible, but except in rare situations, the hunter cloak doesn't last long enough to justify walking or crouch-walking to try to stay hidden. Obviously stalker cloak lasts indefinitely, so you can take your time. Most people don't know this, but the darts can be destroyed, too. You don't get any XP for shooting them, but they do go away. As for people destroying the motion spotter, you get five of them when maxed out, and they last 5 minutes, so it's really a non-issue. Plus, people shooting your motion spotters tend to be easy ambush targets. At max rank, the motion spotter has a 50m radius, which is more than enough to scan a building from a safe distance. You're wrong that it cannot be restocked at an ammo box. You do disappear from the minimap the moment you cloak. There can be some validity in plinking at targets in hopes of a lucky kill, but you need to know when you can get away with it and when you can't. It helps to have a lot of allies around (safety in numbers) and, of course, to know where the other enemies are. When in doubt, hold your fire.
its a placed unit, so i didnt expect that to be restocked from an ammo box . Im going to try the motion spotter then, see if it works out. thanks alot for the advice. I made a second video for review from you guys if you have the time. its 22 minutes now instead of the huge other video. I was quite successful at start, but got bad luck later on. It's rendering now. I also increased the commentary volume from me so you hear my thoughts on the situation i'm in, and im rendering at 2.7k for a prettier look.
I perfectly agree with all of itg answers. I'll just add a few things Itg is perfectly right when it says they are equaly visible... however, the stalkers just can exploit their invisibility a lot better than a rambo can. You should just run, if you're in hunter cloak. You're not less visible when you crouch walk than when you run. Even without this other man, you're not safe at all. Almost all enemies you face like that have a lower TTK than yours, both because of their HP pool and weapon characteristics. If you do this from the front, the odds are just totaly not in your favor.
Actually, this was changed a couple months ago. Nowadays, crouch walking is a lot less visible than running. It's pretty close to the visibility of the standing stationary cloak.
It gives exp for any kill made by allies of someone that the spotter currnetly detects. In some circumstances, it becomes like a constant spam of little exp gains
There are noticeable improvement, but you seems to have a really hard time to get rid of your old playstyle. You basically still think as a HA, and this is easy to see. The moment it was the most noticeable for me was at 11:10 of the video. You were in an very advantegeous situation for a rambo infiltrator: all the opponents were focused on what was happening on the bridge, with a lot of teamates dragging your attention, and you just withdraw because there was one recon dart. Then reployed, returned on the bridge to hide behind some corners and shoot people from range and from where the expect the ennemy to be. I worked rather well because you have a good aim, and that bullets, no matter which weapons shoot them, still kill, but you should ask yourself here: What did I gain to play an infiltrator when fightining this way? If you had been playing HA, you would have done the same thing, just better, due to having a more suited weapon and overshields. The first situation that you left was, in the reverse, a position where being an infiltrator will make you do better than being an HA. The HA cannot flank that bunch of people, kill a few of them and withdraw alive. An rambo infiltrator could, if he knows how to use his tool. So, by redeplying you basicaly traded a situation where the infiltrator is the best class to have, for a situation where the HA is the best class to have. But this way, you will never get back your old K/D ratio, because you just use the same tactics than with your HA than with a class less suited for that. I found you a lil' video with good advices: What I would recommand you to pay attention is the way this guys fight in the first half of his video compared to how you fight. When he sees enemy behind cover, he most often do not try to seek cover to shoot at them from range, but rush in, turn around the obstacle, kill everyone at the position they thought to be safe. Even in the last part, when he shoots from range, he strafes to shoot at people from a bit to the side, and not from everywhere is shooting at the same targets. Flanking. Always flanking. He shoots from the front only when he's spotted. Also, compared to you, he is very very more mobile.
I have a fair bit of experience playing infiltrator. Though I wouldn't call myself an exceptionally skilled one, I'll share what thoughts I had on watching your clips From the footage you've shown it does indeed seem like you're trying a "full frontal" approach on a class that's all about flanking and catching the enemy off their guard. I was glad to see you use your EMP 'nades - in my opinion they are, along with the recon tools, the most powerful weapons the cloaker possesses. I'd say you also need to be more cautious whilst crossing spaces when you know enemies are nearby. A good example of this is the opening of your first video, at Quartz Ridge. Being more aware of your surroundings will improve general survivability on this game as well as an infiltrator's I don't think your aim is quite as bad as you make out - I saw some pretty well-placed shots! However I would recommend trying the laser on your Sirius - even for an SMG its ADS accuracy is really unstable (I've auraxed it and the Eridani, as well as TR/NS SMGs). The [advanced] laser sight generally complements the ranges of most SMGs in the game, and serves as a handy "measuring stick" with regards to engagement range.
Excellent video to show! The tip for acting natural and behaving like an enemy is all too true. He must have been around before our cloaks had faction specific colors. His style reminds me of Ztiller It takes me back to fond memories of the NS-7 PDW before stalker cloak came out. Even to this day with Stalker Cloaking the larger the concentration of enemies the safer those enemies tend to feel. Makes for some lucrative opportunities. One dusty old nugget of knowledge I could add from way back when ambiguity and misdirection were king... Take a corner while cloaked in the opposite direction of enemies and if you do it precisely enough they will not register the "blur" that flashes past too quickly. This also helps play hand in hand with the breaking line of sight tip he gives in the video. Not only does breaking line of sight (while not cloaked) make enemies who are casually observing the battle skeptical as to if just saw an enemy or another friendly. Generally speaking you only get less then a second worth of ambiguity when people see you and the more you weave in and out of cover and break line of sight the more this protection extends. Not to mention all the other good things cover can do for you. Breaking LOS for incoming fire, losing a tail that does ID you as an enemy and adding to confusion for them to keep tracking you. Other casual enemy observers may not be able to even identify as you flee which makes escapes easier. I do this even as stalker because lets face it mobility is king and I'd never be able to manage a decent or interesting session with a sedentary play-style. (I'll leave this here for the OP just in-case hes curious about some disguise camos to try - these are a work in progress for the camo guide. Essentially outfits designed to maximise confusion and make it harder for enemies to be certain you are not their ally) Another thing that struck me about this video is his 2 second rule. I have a similar 3 second rule with regards to my ambushes. I count to 3 in my head and need to leave at 3 or its generally over. You don't get much time to deal with enemies before you loose your advantage. This is also why I will never stop using Bando and 4 EMPs with Stalker Cloak. Nothing else in my arsenal takes more advantage of those few precious seconds.
I look forward to seeing the camo guide! A number of those outfits would certainly make me stop and look twice before deciding whether or not to shoot, especially if the wearer was mingling in a group of my allies!
Knowing the human mind is something that helps when you play an infiltrator. Not saying that I have a scientifical knowledge about it, but analyzing my own reactions and failures, as well as regarding some internet info on the topic gave me some clues about it. Human mind, as I pointed out earlier, is programmed to notice movements. However, movements only catch the attention of the human being, it does not make obligatory record or understand what was noticed. When you move cloaked, the eyes of anyone who display it on their screen quickly shift toward you. Then happen two things into the human mind: 1- Instinctive information filtering The human mind will decide if it he has to perform a check of the nature of the move. For that, it performs a superficial analysis: Is there anything else more important? Is it noticeable enough to be worth the time? This superficial analysis is based mostly on instincts from our past in the wilderness: you draw attention of the human mind if you present caracteriscs that relates to potential threats in the nature. - Shape: unusual shape or colors in the general surrounding pattern draw attention. This is not an issue when cloaked, however - Size: The biggest something seems, the most dangerous it can be for the human being. Not because it's always more deadly, but because its usualy much harder to kill if you need to defend yourself. That's why cloaked running works magnificiently when you are far from opponents but not when your are near: you are far, then you display small, then, for the instinctive par of your mind, you're not a big threat. - Unmatching movement: Many things moves in the nature, so the instinctive mind doesn't ask the intelligence to check on every moves it seems. For exemple, if the wind blows, your mind is not going to pay attention to every leaf that goes in the same way.... however, the mind notice if a move doesn't match the general pattern: if suddently some leaves moves in another direction than all the other, it could mean a predator is behind those leaves, so the instinctive mind rings the bell to the intelligence for checking. The same way, you're much less notices when you run cloaked in the same way that many other objects moves... this is why sometimes, acts like if you're part of the ennemy just works so well as an infiltrator - Trajectory: Another thing that makes instinct warn your conscience is when the moves suddently turn toward you. Even if it's temporary. In the wilderness, plants don't turn toward you. Pacific animals ignore you, or run away. What suddently changes its moves to comes toward you are PREDATORS, bad things that want you dead. So there is nothing worst to alert the conscience of the human mind that change your trajectory suddently to come straight at the ennemy when he's looking by your side. It's like shouting "I want you DEAD!" to their instinct. Please also remember that the instincts works by comparisons. He tries to figure what the conscience must check as a priority. You will never get truly noticed as long you never get at the first priority. If nothing moves at all on the screen of someone, even moving afar, fluidly, and not in the direction of this opponent is not safe. Because nothing else moves. So you're on the top prority for checking. In the reverse, being in the middle of people, friend or foe, makes the instincts have many options of "top priority", and decrease your chances to get truly noticed. This is how, sometimes, you "know", during a fraction of second, that you've seen something, but someway, either you think about the fact it was a threat way after he passed besides you... or just just forget about that thing without even truly thinking about it a few second after seeing it. Your mind didn't check it. Instincts just didn't put it on the priority list. As long the mind notices you only on instinctive level, your risk is almost 0. No one shoots at instinctive level, because it will just spend all his time to friendly fire, or rampage the surrounding vegetation... 2- Threat analysis Once you're on the top priority for a check by the conscience, it's going to check what is the nature of the move he percieved on the instinctive level. He aknowledge you. This is when you start to be in danger, however, the cloak still helps you here: the main way the mind identify the nature of the move is by checking its shape. And when cloaked your shape is blending with the surrounding, which complexifies the process. It makes that the human mind is going to need a few fraction of second more to decide you're a threat, that if he could see you uncloaked.... it creates delay in your aknowledgement. Those fractions of seconds is why, when someone suddently see a cloacked infiltrator suddently turn the corner, this infiltrator often succeed to kill it: the infiltrator identifies the thing that moves before him faster that the opponent identifies the thing that moves before him. And thus, the infiltrator can start to shoot first. Notice that it is a very slight time difference, so reflexes i.e. your training into aknowledging and deciding your action can change everything. But still, when a cloaked and uncloaked opponents meets by accident, even accounting the uncloaking delay, the cloaked one has a little, very little advantage that helps him to win. This is also why recon is vital for an infiltrator: by getting intel, you allow you mind to do the aknowledgement even before you see the opponent. So there is no aknowledgment delay for you when you enter the sight of each other, even if you didn't succeed to flank it. There is only one for the opponent if he has no such intel. Intel will simply buy you a additionnal few fractions of second to put bullets in your target body even before their mind decide to pull the trigger, but it's naturaly better if you suceed to use it to flank. This difference of a few fractions of second in the aknowledgement proecess is why, on good infiltrator videos, you often see them cross the path of a HA face to face, and still kill it, and you get weird the impression that the HA didn't even react, not activating its overshield nor pressing the trigger. The HA couldn't. To react, his mind should have aknowledged the threat first, and the infiltrator just didn't let it the time for that. The art to kill as an infiltrator is the art to understand the human mind. The art to kill as an infiltrator is the art to constantly slip under the top checking priority statuts of your opponent minds, and to aknowledge their nature before they can do the same with you. Everything with an infiltrator plays under 2s, because human minds work fast, including those of your ennemies. Once you are identified by the mind as a threat, you're not in advantaged position anymore, the class doesn't give you any other advantage. This is when, if all the surrounding opponents are not down, you recloak and withdraw (and withdrawal efficiently takes some training). FEAR is the worst ennemy of the infiltrator, because fear cause hesitation that negates your fractions of second of advantage. A fearless infiltrator kills much more than a too cautionous infiltrator. Because SPEED is always the key, especialy for the rambo infiltrator.
wtf that video, i feel he picked out his best shots there. the enemy is there ******** or what. he just runs in a enemy base without the enemy doing much about him, even running!!! talking about the discussion of "the brain indentifying the threat". cloaked movement lights up your team easily. if it does not light up its a enemy! And at those treefights at the start, seriously people are so stopid. as HA that infiltrator would be dead right there. I just tried to play like that guy plays "fearless". quick running around things and taking people from the back. My KD ended up being 0,8. and the damage was contained because all the mines i spam with every life.
