I'll start off with yes this is mostly opinion based, I don't care to look at every little stat right now or take a long time to write this, particularly at this hour but I'd like to just get it out there. I'm sure it will attract some flames and other non-sense but whatever. It's a wonder because it just never seems to get addressed. There's a severe lack in sustainable fire from NC maxes in the AI role. The NC max is also strictly a point blank to 5 meter AI role which is a huge shortcoming of its own, top that off with low ammo pools per clip and in reserve with long reload times... it just adds up to being best used as AA or AV. Yes there is a slug option which decreases reload time, but the slugs are pretty crap if you ask me. Slugs are highly inaccurate at even close-mid range and at close range you're sacrificing way too much to use them. As for extended mags let's look at the scattercannon, you get a base of 6 rounds per clip for 66 rounds total (includes the loaded clip.) Then you add extended mags and get a whopping 4 rounds added to your clip for 10 rounds a clip. This makes for 70 rounds total (includes loaded clip.) Of course this is only talking about one scattercannon, you can get a 2nd shotgun which will help to take people down faster but you'll still run into the same issues. 1: You're only viable at extreme close ranges for AI. 2: You have a very limiting clip size with a very long reload. (Once you're out you're extremely vulnerable for a long period.) 3: Slugs are useless crap, sorry it's true. 4: Your total kill potential over time and per ammo pool without engi support is far less than the competition. 5: Due to the above the actual instances in which an AI NC max is useful is far less frequent than the other factions. There are many instances where the point in which a max may be spawned is far enough from where the max is useful that it's just not worth spawning it as opposed to a TR or VS max which can fight at range and make its way to where it wants to be or is needed most. Personally I'd like to see a GAUSS option for NC max and less shotgun, all in all the NC doesn't need shotguns on everything. You'd think that the "conglomerate" would have the intelligence to fund R&D to a more useful attachment to their MAX units than something that's hardly useful at all. Hell you could slap on two GR22's or AF19's and it'd be better than the shotguns by a mile even with some accuracy loss.
AV weapons should not be the solution to an AI problem. Doing so will only lead to the AV weapon being nerfed into uselessness at some point. (And no I don't have them at this time.)
Slugs are actually quite good (source: about 3,500 slug MAX kills). In my opinion, they're the correct choice in virtually any situation outside of doorway camping/breaching. To use them properly, you should NOT fire at the maximum possible fire rate outside of close range. Pace your shots, and it's like you've got two inaccurate scout rifles. Fire while stationary (and crouching, ideally), for the best possible accuracy. You're a MAX, so you can usually get away with this. Mattocks are the best with slugs because they're the most accurate with the best velocity, but slugs will work well enough even with Grinders or Hacksaws.
It should come as no surprise that NC pull the least amount of AI MAXes. (For reference check http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/). MAXes are such an important part and taking and defending points, you can have one faction with a super-situational MAX when they other two factions can be effective everywhere. For every base that the NC MAX can potentially do well in there are two more bases where taking an NC MAX is a completely liability and waste of resources. What needs to be done with NC MAXes: 1. Larger magazines/ammo reserves. They could be effectively doubled and they still wouldn't reach the same kills/mag level of VS and TR. 2. Change slugs from one slug to three slugs (and reduce the damage of each slug to 1/3)to match the weapon's model (they all have three barrels) and also to make slugs more forgiving by having less complete misses. I would also argue that all the AI MAX weapons should be automatic, but keeping the same ROF. Part of the problem with slugs is that when you hit both mouse buttons there's a good chance of nudging your mouse slightly off target. I actually think that slugs work best on Hacksaws because it actually becomes easier to control when just holding down the two mouse buttons than constantly pounding away on them.
So...the NC max gets to be really really great at AI and AV now? Okay. Now what are your balance thoughts on the other factions' maxes?
25m w/ slugs is fine and plenty range for most engagements, not to mention within 10-15 meters you instagib just about all infantry and within 10 meters so long as you have decent aim, you will also destroy TR/VS maxs. Also I can't wait for the raven nerf, luckily for NC it will still remain fairly useful and will avoid the hammer nerf of ZOE/PPA.
It's the fact the NC has no AI game that everyone whines about Ravens because they're the only effective AI weapon we have that can target enemies at a distance, and those are going to be nerfed as a result of the collective community piling their complaints at SOE's feet. I play my faction's MAX suit a lot. The only time I'll ever pull an AI MAX is when there's going to be a lot of indoor combat, or if I'm at a Biolab where shotguns always shine. I can't count the number of times I've been shredded by a TR MAX suit's chainguns trying to get to cover as an infantry soldier, and the same goes for Vanu's edgesuit. They have the advantage of being effective outside spitting range, because they don't have shotguns. So do I think the NC need a bit more in the AI game for their MAX suits? Yeah, I do. Shotgun stats don't matter when you're fighting at their only effective range of "I can see the individual pixels in the enemy.", so a Gauss gun or something wouldn't go amiss. That being said, I do think the other factions need a bit of a boost in the AV game. Fractures are basically two-shot Falcons, and Pounders need a lot of skill to use appropriately. I've never been killed by an AV weapon from a Vanu MAX, or at least I don't think I have. So either I don't know much about them, or they're so useless you'll never see a Vanu pull an AV MAX. It kinda bugs me really, MAX suits are crucial to almost any assault. Yet they were done so poorly, that all half the community does is whine or call them crutches.
I hate the fact we have shotguns, but appreciate the MAX shotguns from a dev perspective. Yeah, we have poopy anti infantry on our MAX. But you know what? The other, base infantry shine at range. We have, hands down, some of the deadliest ranged weaponry. And our MAX? The top dog when it comes to anti-vehicle zerg. A squad of Raven maxes on top of a biolab is a sight to behold, doubly so if supported by Phoenix squads down below. It's a blue, screeching sky, and there ain't a d*mn thing those vehicles can do. So yes, it is balanced. We give up our ability to halt an infantry advance in favor of being able to make vehicle columns poop their iron pants when they see the Blue Rain heading their way.
Just which game you are playing, folks? NC MAX, lacking 'an ability to halt an infantry advance'? Seriously?
imho its the magsize that spells death for the NC max, max TTK is similar across all 3 factions at effective shotgun range ALL 3 will kill infantry in under 0.14 seconds, so how come the NC can only sustain this fire for 2 seconds while TR can keep on mowing? imho they should halve the damage but double the magsize. i did these stats back in the day, but i'm pretty sure nothing has changed with max weapons since. Hacksaws: sustained fire: 2 seconds (125x6=750, 750x6=4500) Reload: 4 seconds DPS=750 (4500 x 10 = 45000 DPM, 45000 divided by 60 = 750) Onslaughts: sustained fire: 7.6 seconds (125 x 60= 7500) Reload: 2.2 DPS=765 (7.6+2.2=9.8, 60 divided by 9.8=6.12, 7500x6.12=45900 DPM, 45900 divided by 60 = 765) Onslaughts have: 2% higher DPS 81% faster reloads 280% more sustained fire 740% more ammo 900% larger magazines
Um.. I would pay 2000SC to have my hacksaws on my VS and TR maxes also... I would gladly give the NC maxes a ranged AI option if all factions could equip shotguns on maxes.
Its always strange to see that VS and TR players complain about NCs Scat-MAXes being OP but don't want us to have mid-range weaponary. They somehow just want the shotguns nerfed. My opinion is (and I have played this game more than 2 years now on all empires) that NC is a very strong faction in general. Maybe the strongest. But we are most and massively hindered by our MAX. Others have already brought the fact that whenever you run into an AI-MAX in close quarters you are dead! It doesnt really make a difference if the MAX brings Hacksaws or Blueshifts. And thats proven. The only real adventage that comes with the shotguns is the 1v1 superiority vs enemy MAXes. And I know that it would be much more beneficial for NC to have this removed and to get weapons with the possibility of sustained fire and shorter reloads. It would also be good for VS and TR as they would'n't have to complain about NC Maxes anymore. I like asymetrical balance and variation in this game. But MAX-units I'd like to be brought in Line with each other. I'd also really like to know how well NC would do in alerts with a capable mid-range AI MAX.
I feel like SOE should just rework the NC max. Remove the scatt cannons altogether since neither NC, TR and VS like it on the reciving end or the giver. So my idea as said by other people here. Give the NC max Gauss weapons instead. For example the stock weapon which is currently the scattercannons. make them full auto 200 dmg model nonshotgun. ca 250 rpm for both arms, ACC and magsize can be speculated. and for the max weapon with a huge amount of ammo double the ammo poll of the stock one still with the 200 dmg model with same RPM and maybe worse ACC. For the long range ones to compete with the Blueshift's and Mercy. Give it a 167 dmg with around 300 rpm each and good ACC, but less magasine size compared to the stock one. And for the CQC one make it also 167 dmg model with around 334 rpm. If this happens we could also probably nerf the Ravens AI power without making the NC max useless outdoors
Your missing the point of extended mags. It isn't about the total number of rounds you can carry. You go from 6 rounds per clip to 10 rounds per clip. That's a 66% increase in the clip size. It saves you from that slow reload quite so often. This is why extended mags are considered mandatory for NC Maxes. As to your point, I play NC, and you deal the cards your dealt. Sure, I would love dual Gauss SAWs, but until that happens (IF it happens) there isn't any point in whining about it. When you play AI Max, make sure you have support: Engineers to keep your magazines full (and keep you healthy), Heavies and other Maxes to cover you while you reload, etc.
My focal point there is that the maximum potential per clip and overall in the event an engi dies or whatever is far far less than TR/VS maxes. Don't recall how well I explained it and I can't read up right now but that's one of my issues with it.
Lol. Okay. Another NC max thread claiming the best max in the game is under powered. 1 The best anit-vehicle max in the game with ravens. 2 The best close range room defense max in the game with shotguns. By this i mean that it doesn't matter what enters the room, it's dead as soon as it steps foot inside. That means no C4 sprinting for anyone. Doesn't even require aim, just make sure your target is in front of you. 3 Any weaknesses that the max has can be overcome with certs. 4. A shield that can block damage from the front. One max in a room will stop anything that tries to come inside unless it's completely out numbered.Against other maxes, 2 or 3 infantry actually have a chance, once gets killed while the other dashes in for c4. Not so with the scat max, since it can one shot any infantry target other than HA with shields. One Max with dual ravens can stop any enemy armor column, again unless sheer weight of numbers can over come it. The max's back and forth strafing to avoid the raven's smoke cloud only makes the max more difficult to hit from range, added to the fact that the ravens are laser guided, so you can fire them as fast as you want to, so long as you direct them into a target. Just like the engi av turret, once you're good at this, it becomes second nature. There's being good at something, then there's being too good at something. The NC max is too good at close range, but we're expected to accept this since it isn't great in mid-range combat. However, with certs it can be a definite contender, and is only seen as weak at this range because most NC max pilots expect an easy ride. The NC max is also far too good at ranged anti vehicle combat, being able to farm vehicles from several hundred meters away with easy, essentially locking down entire areas. Any vehicle in the open is easy certs for them. I hear there's a nerf coming in, but seeing as Higby is so in love with the NC, I doubt it will be anything meaningful.
1: This thread is STRICTLY about Anti-Infantry, AI. 2: Only ONLY good at point blank defense up until it... oh it already ran out of ammo let's kill it quick. 3: Extended mags on the shotguns hardly does anything to make up for the problems I described and slugs are VERY inaccurate which doesn't make up for the lack of ranged capability compared to TR/VS maxes. 4: A shield that blocks damage from the front while they can easily move to either side or behind. Might I add that it also doesn't really block splash damage. If you're trying to 1v1 a max as infantry face to face you're doing it wrong and that's not an excuse. 5: I kill NC maxes while on TR/VS alllll the time with light assault & c4 as easy as I could make a PB&J sandwhich. 6: See 1. 7. If your complaint is that the NC max is too good at CQC then what is your complaint about us trading in some shotguns for more conventional ranged weaponry like the TR/VS who's weapons also are REALLY good at CQC but with more # killing potential. ;o Honestly what is your gripe here?
You don't read much, do you? Nobody said it was underpowered, the entire thread was about its AI weaponry being useless outside of spitting range along with the usual talk of Ravens and all factions getting a shotgun for their MAX suits, and it was actually an alright discussion. Get salty about something else.
Yeah....and i addressed your supposed anti infantry issues. Your max dominates in CQC against all infantry. It can perform reasonably at mid range, with slugs it becomes even better. Extended mags are a must, which isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing, you can spend certs to improve an already excellent weapon. Only the NC would complain about this. Now, what I find so funny about threads like these are the prerequisites that the OP wants to go by. The only way his issues can appear valid is by ignoring everything good about the NC max. Laughable. In any case, I'll respond to your points. 2: This game is a team game, anyone and everyone can run out of ammo without an engineer. This is not a scatmax issue. If you're only good at close range, then you need to improve your aim. Even without slugs at medium range, you can still put infantry down. Use your environment, you shouldn't allow yourself to be caught in a ranged fight anyway. Successful play in this game requires you to control your engagements, the moment you let your enemy control the fight, you'll find yourself at a severe disadvantage. 3: Your CQC is unmatchable by any other max, yet you believe you should be their equal at medium range as well? What's worse is that even though you want to write off slugs as being useless, they are in fact very effective at turning your max into a short ranged beast, with the added benefit of catching your enemies off guard. This game is balanced asymmetricaly, that's why you can't just look at one aspect of any unit. In addition, ravens are excellent at killing infantry at medium to long range. Again i know you want to right them off as well, but they're part of the game. 4. Laughable. You can block incoming frontal damage. That means if i peak around a corner and fire a launcher at you, you can block at least half of its damage with your shield. Is it fool proof? No, however it is still very useful. And further highlights the NC max's primary role as an unstoppable CQC force. Also, no one said anything about 1v1. The shield blocks tank shots, missiles, and small arms fire. It's an extra layer of defense for an already tough unit, one that no other max has. Trying to downplay this really makes it seem like you believe the NC max should truly be unstoppable. What's the primary technique for killing a max that's standing well into a defended room? Snap-fire rockets through a doorway. What max can prevent this tactic from working? The one with the shield that "only" blocks frontal attacks. 5. Easy to say, harder to prove. 6. See my first 2 paragraphs. 7. My gripe is that the NC max is an already amazing max. It dominates CQC, it dominates ranged anti tank combat. It's mid ranged combat potential is only limited by the player. Learn to use slugs if you want to fight mid range. No, other maxes are not as good in close range as the NC max. They require precise aim, and headshots while the NC max can one shot any target in front of them, and one clip any max in seconds. My gripe is that you want to focus only on the one aspect that you've convinced yourself is a weakness for the max, while writing all of it's strengths off. As for your comment Metalcotton, read the above. I know what this thread is about, more NC players complaining about something because of another faction's questionable advantage. Don't be surprised when someone bursts your bubble.
