NC MAX Range Adjustments

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Sagabyte, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. Sagabyte

    I've noticed recently that the NC MAX is extremely punishing to play at mid-range (for AI work) and I would like to present a couple ideas to remedy the performance of the MAX at mid-range.

    The major problems with the NC MAX and mid range combat are a lack of accuracy and hard punishment for missing. Unlike other factions that use automatic weaponry to attack at mid range, the NC MAX relies on 12 (20 with both arms upgraded) shells to hit their marks at mid range. The other factions aren't necessarily punished for missing, as they can fire shots in rapid succession and sustain fire for a longer period of time. Every shot an NC MAX fires, however, does matter. Each shot brings them closer to a reloading period, and since non-slug shotguns are fairly limited at range, people can end up dumping tons of rounds for limited effect.

    Problem: NC MAXes are too punishing to use at ranges other than point blank and cqc.

    Solution: Reduce the amount of punishment by simultaneously bringing up ammo and ranged combat values.

    Step 1: Range.

    Here is a current representation of the NC MAX shotgun capabilities:
    Key: RED means instagib range (1 shot to kill), ORANGE means heavy damage range (2 and sometimes 3 shots to kill), Yellow means light damage range (3+ shots to kill). It's essentially the representation of damage that falls off over time.
    As it stands, the shotguns are capable of instagibbing at point-blank and dealing heavy damage just slightly beyond that. Awesome, but the ranged section is lacking. Anything beyond direct point blank will take multiple shots to kill, which is problematic for an NC MAX looking to conserve ammunition.

    However, I'm not going to blatantly suggest that the NC MAX gets a flat range buff. I suggest that the instagib range be pulled in slightly closer to compensate for a larger orange range and a more drawn-out yellow damage range.
    This increased heavy damage range will ensure that opposing players don't always get their butts instapounded in bio labs, but compensates by letting the NC hit enemies reliably that are beyond spitting distance.

    Slugs, obviously, will bring out this range even further but will lose some raw killing capability in the process.

    Step 2: Ammo.

    Now that we've figured out how to bring the NC MAX range out without making them OP like before, we should focus on the ammunition side of the picture. Most MAX shotguns start with a depressing 6 (Six) ammunition per magazine! Unless you upgrade your magazine size to Ext-mags, you're screwed! Especially because reloads are so long and tedious, missing even one shot can ruin you!

    Obviously, this can't stick around for much longer. I offer one, simple mechanic that will change lives.


    Isn't that idea just novel? Instead of relying on tedious reloads to govern your shots, you can instead compensate for a lack of ammo by loading one shell at a time! You won't need to wait for an entire reload, you can simply fire off one round at a time (albeit slower) if you run dry!

    Each shell can load in approximately .4 or .5 seconds, which is reasonable.

    -Increase maximum ammo capacity by 1 magazine
    -Decrease Ext mag upgrade to 2 rounds, default mag sizes start at 8 (EXT mags should not be necessary, but a good upgrade later on)

    Thoughts or suggestions?
    • Up x 3
  2. Liewec123

    just use ravens if you want to play medium range ;)
    it'll cost you 1300 certs LESS than slug mattocks with extended mags.
    they're pinpoint accurate, no more praying to RNGesus for your slug to go where you want them to.
    they're a 3 shot kill at any range.
    they also let you deal with vehicles.

    on your idea though, i do think the cannister/enforcer reloading mechanic would solve a lot of scat max issues,
    cool idea :)
    • Up x 1
  3. eldarfalcongravtank

    wait until NS Max HMG which is in the works apparently
  4. Devilllike

    oh you NC want more range? cool remove all the shotguns from the maxes and then they should give you range
  5. Goretzu

    There's supposedly an NS MAX Shotgun in the works, I'll be interesting to see how many take it (or don't take it) over an Onslaught etc.
    • Up x 1
  6. Devilllike

    Concidering 99% of the bases capture points are close range (within the one shot range of the gun ) i guess it will be many and the infantry will be unplayable mark my words
  7. Liewec123

    i wouldn't for sure, i main NC and also have TR VS alts who i max alot on and i'd take the VS/TR AI over the shotties any day, even for CQC,
    why overkill one guy instantly when you can kill them in 0.3 seconds as TR/VS and then mow down the rest of their squad and still have 100 rounds left over :p
    • Up x 1
  8. lothbrook

    I wouldn't be too excited about the NS Shotgun, as they'll most likely be giving you grinders, which are awful unless every guy you're shooting is within 5m.
  9. ronjahn

    I like this idea, but a blanket buff for all NC max shotguns? I don't know how I feel about that.

    How would you feel if maybe they just did this on one shotgun, perhaps the Mattock since it is already the designed long range NC max weapon?

    I feel like doing it to one weapon would leave NC with more options and create fewer tears from VS/TR players.
  10. Sagabyte

    If these changes were on the mattock it would literally be the number one choice. Nobody would choose anything else.
  11. Sagabyte

    You'd be surprised to find out that people would still pick their chain guns. Range is extremely important.
  12. MasterDemoman

    pls no
    Reloading a whole magazine would then take even longer, and while you get some utility that allows you to defend yourself in the middle of a reload, that still isn't really worth it~~

    ~~because of what this guy said^
    That would be a buff to survivability, but a nerf to sustained fire on groups of enemies, assuming you can duck in to cover or use the Aegis. (w/ proper positioning to prevent everyday objects like plastic explosives from raining on your head.)

    If this was a separate option, like a cheap sidegrade, then I'd say yes. It'd be more useful on someone who uses Charge, or finds themselves getting plastic explosives defecated on them from above, because you'd be putting yourself headfirst into a fight and that survivability would be useful against those dreadful C4 defecating fairies of death.
    ^and I could then see myself using it without being butt angry about my poor Aegis.
  13. Sagabyte

    Consider the shell loading time was .4 seconds. With the changes to a basic 8-round magazine, that makes the reload time 3.2 seconds for 8 rounds. Add another .8 seconds and that brings you up to a 4 second reload for a 10 round magazine.

    Current statistics: 3.2 rounds short reload, 4 rounds long reload
    Proposed: 2.4 seconds to load 6 rounds, 3.2 seconds to load 8 rounds, 4 seconds to load 10 rounds.
  14. Goretzu

    This is likely why the Mutilator is the TRs most use AI MAX weapon currently, I expected it to be the Onslaught with its near shotgun TTK, but I guess its the sheer never-stop-shooting-ness of the Mutilator that outweighs that.

    Well 99% of bases have rooms much bigger than 15m across and bare in mind that the Onslaught out-TTKs NC AI MAX weapons from ~8m range onwards.

    This is 15m range, and you need to more or less 1/2 it to be in NC AI MAX optimum range:

    But it'll be interesting to see if they ever do manage to get NS Shotguns out if Mutilator use drops.
  15. Sagabyte

    That's pretty dang realistic.
  16. Goretzu

    Yeah there's maths showing it in other threads, certainly Mattocks with slugs hit well significantly farther than that, but then they lose out in the 0-8m range and still would be worse when realistically compared with Mercys and Blueshifts anyway.

    Sustained fire, that is % firing and % loading time is another NC AI MAX weakness - which isn't to say it needs buffing as such, but when all 4 weapons suffer from it, well you can see why the the NC would be looking forwards to an NS basilisk type MAX arm.
  17. Devilllike

    So you are saying that 8 out of 15 meters is few?! what?!
  18. Goretzu

    That video demonstrates that even the smallest rooms in PS2 are usually more than 15m across.

    Being best at 0-8m isn't the majority, when you consider that most of PS2 combat occurs at more than 8m, and often sigficantly more than 8m.

    Or to look at it another way very little of PS2 combat actually occurs within 0-8m, which is likely why the TR tends to use the Mutilator the most as it gives an ok 0-8m TTK, a very decent AI MAX 8-30m TTK and has the sheer volume and consistancy of fire.
  19. EViLMinD

    Slugs are better than people think. They're delightful in hacksaws and mattocks especially.

    Falcons are beasts. Much better than Ravens in the closer ranges. They hit harder, splash more and don't require guiding.

    Yes, these guns are harder to use. They don't let you spray. Rewarding when you make good shots that bring down enemies in just a few hits, though. More patience is required.
  20. omegaskorpion

    And this is where the NC max fails, they cant keep shooting and have to be patient and reloading half of the time.
    Other maxes dont need to be patient, they can just rush you when ever they want thanks to high ammo capacity and fire rate.

    I was first playing the TR most of the time, then i swapped to VS and now im mostly playing NC and i can only say that the NC max is worst to use (outside of ravens of course) since range is limited to 10m and ammo capacity is so low and reload times take forever.

    I have died with NC max so many freaking times to other maxes that i cant even count. Pounder max destroyes nc mac and all automatic weapons just keep shooting while i have emptied both my mags to hes/her head and then i have to reload and during that time the tr or vs max plenty of time to kill me.

    Its not just me tho, the time i have been in nc, i havent seen many maxes outside biolabs and tank assaults and even in biolab they are rare. And then comes VS/TR with 50 maxes and NC with 2 maxes fighting for one territory area, losing it of cource (and the 1h later taking it back when all maxes have left).

    I would love to use shotguns in this game but the spread and damage dropoff in shotguns is too damn high. Only shotguns worth to use without slugs is propably the baron, canister and mustang ah (which is debatable and since they are tank and esf weapons, they dont use slugs [exepth baron])