NC MAX post-nerf thoughts?

NC MAXes have taken a significant change in their weapons. From what I understand:

1. Removed slugs whilst reducing the cone of fire to help with longer engagements
2. Reduced the fire rates of the shotguns
3. Reduced damage for the majority of the shotguns

First, I barely played with the other Maxes from TR and VS since I mostly focus on NC. After trying the new changes, I think they are pretty... awful in battles. The shotguns themselves except Hacksaw and Mattock, feel very unwieldy, slow firing and often feel very punishing if you miss the majority of the pellets due to the RNG pellets spread which can only be avoided if get closer but risking to expose yourself to the enemies and often not really an option for larger rooms with more cover. I've read a post about the TTK for NC Maxes are now longer than the TR/VS counterparts (not sure if that true). I know that the Aegis Shield is a very good utility to absorb damage and push forward and close the gap of engagement but the shotguns are still very tough to use. What are your thoughts? I do agree that NC MAXes do need some kind of nerf but I think its a bit too much. I rather have the rate of fire of the shotguns bumped back up a little. Too many things I to list in 1 post but I'll add in my opinions when I got a reply. Let me know what you think

Save your words, Daybreak does not care. They did not manage after years to write in german the tips for the players during the loading screens without mistakes, what do you expect now?

i've unsubbed because of it, they might ignore our words, but we can certainly make them hear us!
speak with your wallets! if you're NC, or even if you just don't like terrible "balance" changes,
don't pay a penny until they fix their mistake! (though they probably won't)

Even though the hacksaw and mattocks are firing faster they're basically doing so little damage it's a joke. Overall thoughts from an NC perspective are that you'll get more kills of any type using dual bursters or using maxes on other factions.

From a non NC perspective there are many ways to enjoy the max nerf. You can 1v1 an NC max and win most of the time. Or just join the VS/TR max rushes and you're more or less less uncontested in a point room as NC has no counter. Or just fire at the NC spawns/biolab teleport rooms like all the other maxes that are farming NC.

NC maxes were simply broken. We have been dealing , as non NC players, with that thing for 6 years. Finally the problem has been fixed, and if something is needed is a nerf to VS and TR maxes too... not a buff to NC maxes.

Maxes should be the tool for infantry to deal with vehicles, not a machine of death for any infantry that cross their path.

Sadly outside of any building maxes are super weak (especially because archer) and not particularly good vs air or ground vehicles.

yes i've been dealing with them on my TR and VS too, a single brick of c4, dealt with. gg.
an AV nade and decimator shot, gg.

you mean you no longer need to think about how to deal with what you considered to be a problem,
now you can just mindlessly continue gunning with your free infantry to take out a 450 cost unit,
that isn't a fix...that is CHILDPROOFING.

we have tools to deal with vehicles, they're called VEHICLES, you want to fight tanks, bring tanks...
max is not an infantry tool.

so why would you think they are supposed to be vehicle hunters?!

maxes (atleast TR and VS) do what they are supposed to do, it is an infantry unit that cost you THE PRICE OF A BATTLE TANK
and for that cost you get an infantry unit with more health than free infantry, and higher firepower than free infantry.
NC "max" dons'nt even deserve to be called "max" anymore so i've taken to calling it the NC min. (min being the opposite of max.)
yes i know they are called max because its an acronym for "mechanised auxiliary" or something like that.

This, in my opinion, completely underlines the basic issue that we see with MAXes; People don't think they are vehicles, therefore they consider them infantry and therefore surely they shouldn't be powerful or else that would be unfair!

MAXes are not a tool for infantry to use against vehicles, most maxes are worse at killing vehicles than infantry are. MAXes are and always have been general purpose armour and in any other game would be labelled a SUPPORT role.

If the game called MAXes VEHICLES then nobody would get upset about losing to one in a small arms firefight. It's genuinely a matter of perspective.

MAXes are powered armour suits used by infantry, they are powerful, they are meant to be scary, you should die to one which is fighting you unless you are prepared. You wouldn't run at a lightning or an MBT with your SMG then frustratedly ask why you died so why do people do this against MAXes and expect to win? The game has a multitude of powerful Anti-max weapons and tools, most of which don't even replace your primary weapons, some of which have a shorter TTK against the MAX than their AI weapons have against you!

This issue is never going to be settled, just like the Air issue, because it isn't one of numbers or mechanics but perspective and until people understand that a MAX suit isn't "just" another infantry unit then it won't be resolved.

Having read this obviously I must be a MAX main who walks around holding M1 to collect infinite kills while smothering my 600lb face in certs and cheeto dust but you may be surprised to hear that my main is engineer and what is always firmly glued into my primary slot? An XOXO. I don't play MAXes, I kill MAXes. The last thing plenty of MAXes see is a fluorescent yellow idiot screeching towards them with a glowing pink rifle, I don't even use the scope.

Allow me to get back on track though; I cannot give my opinion on the changes to the NC MAX AI weaponry as I have less than an hour total using most of them but I do quite like the new grinders as I feel they fulfil a supportive AI role that the NC max was missing previously, all that nonsense i've said up there ^ applies to MAXes and MAX haters of all four empires. Stop considering them just another infantry unit, start putting them right at the top of your "Oh poop I need to deal with this ASAP or I will die" list and finally we can let MAXes be as powerful as they should be. God knows the anti-MAX firepower being wielded at any given time outweighs the firepower the MAXes themselves bring to the field already.

You even did unsub and encourage others to hurt DBG and risk the future of the game now that it is about NC? How surprising... ;-)

enjoy your karma.
HONK HONK

Because at release maxes were quite strong vs air and in general vs vehicles. The main issue is archer that is a two shot tool in the hand of any engineer.

I think the proper role for maxes is as support for infantry when outdoor vs vehicle, but this is just me.

For sure a murdering machine in a biolab is totally unneeded from the point of view of game play.

It can certainly be an infantry tank, something designed to take damage and enter inside a building.

this is obviously my opinion... no idea what developer plan for them.

carefull you are falling into beat aircraft with aircraftlogic here ...

and i do have to agree that maxes should be a tool that can help against vehicles and aircraft, they are a kind of infantryvehiclebastard and as such should have a degree of capability to fight both for their slow speed ...
also how are maxes not an infantrytool when they can help holding chokepoints or capturepointareas?
this reply is ... confusing ..

but would you spend 450 on a max to go engage vehicles out in the open?
or would you pull an MBT/Lib for the same cost, far more effect and far less risk
(hell, you can get out and repair, or bail if it is gonna die.)
also you aren't instantly killed by roadkills.

they have a place for AA with bursters, but its generally just camping by the spawnroom, go anywhere else and you're dead.

heavies hold capturepoints better than snipers, does that make them a tool?
maxes hold capturepoints better than heavies, does that make them a tool?


when i think of tools i think of weapons or something you'll quickly switch too to deal with a problem and then switch back,
like if there is a cloaker around i can switch to secondary with flashlight, kill them and then switch back, a useful tool to have.
or if the enemy has maxes i can switch to rocket launcher, kill them and switch back, another useful tool
noone should really be spending 450 on a max to do one thing and then willingly switch back to whatever class they were before,
once you've switched to max you generally want to get your moneys worth, and stick with max until you're dead.

all the max class is,
is a beefier version of free infantry with a shotgun but it costs you the price of a battletank or gunship to play it.
and yet people seem to have had an issue with their free infantry getting oneshot by that 450 unit,
because it doesn't look like a tank or gunship.

now that 450 unit for ONE faction is borderline USELESS, thanks to wrel and his agenda.

the cost isn't written in the stone... at release maxes were at 50

mbt/lib requires teammates of which sometimes people do not often jump in even if you call for manning turrets for some reason ..
and again you still ignore the fact that unlike vehicles maxes can be revived, THAT is what makes them infantry ..
so with that in mind regarding the circumstances and me being a bit of a lonewolf yes .. i might take the max over the lightning on occasion .. i do not exactly care about cost more than i care about function ... and in function the max is more versatile than a lightning ... cause a lightning can not be transported, neither can it get into buildings .. and maxes can have the same advantage infantry have which is taking cover in buildings ..

as for open field battle this is again were the game generally lacks and not just on maxes but on infantry too ... both should be able to support vehicles, and vehicles should be the cover to infantry/maxes that otherwise only buildings provide .. or the terrain needs to be adapted .. .. something that has been said a couple of times .. give vehicles capturepoints that aren´t soley about PMB´s but still have infantry be involved ...

further speaking of functionality .. a max once purchased can change its loadout for free as long as there is a terminal, not so vehicles .. you get yourself a vehicle you are stuck with its loadout .. oh there is airpresence quick get that skyguard, oh damn the air is gone but that mbt is there .. guess i´m screwed/damn gotta reinvest into my antiarmorloadout, max on the other hand eh i can do at least some damage just need a sec to change ..

.. they still can be one shoted by it, so that hasn´t realy changed, not gonna disagree that shotguns are lacking though ... i would say raven´s are lacking too aswell as the TR and VS equivalent ...

can´t realy help with people´s view what they consider the max to be or what the definition of a tool is .

also again with the childish wrelblame .. since when has wrel become DBG?

i lone wolf exclusively, and my solo tankbuster lib (which costs me 360 nanites through A.S.P)
is VASTLY superior at AV duty than a TR/VS or NC max.
its 90 cheaper than a max, its far faster allowing me to get out of dodge, and yeah it freaking FLIES.
it is VASTLY more durable and i can repair it myself,
i have a super deadly AV nosegun, if i see juicy clumped infantry i can switch to a hugely powerful AI bellygun,
a pesky ESF bothering me? i have hyena as the tailgun for AA cover. (downing ESFs in less than 2 auto-seeking volleys)
its easy to switch between the 3 seats and gives me powerful AV, AI and AA, all in one vehicle.

max costs me 90 more, its slow and requires transportation, it requires external repairs (or sloooow auto), external resupplies
it can die instantly to even a flash via roadkills, it can only carry 2 weapons so you cannot cover yourself from all threats,
and taking a hybrid build (such as 1 burster 1 raven) will simply make you borderline useless as 2 things.

there is no contest for open field between solo lib and a max.

please don't...hasn't really changed...
the only 2 shotguns that can now "one-shot" are grinders and scattercannons,
have you looked at the circumstances that they can "oneshot"?

scattercannons deal a max of 1250 damage from both arms within 8m, meaning against a nanoweave target
you require every pellet from both arms to hit your target, and the target must be within 8m (pretty much MELEE distance...)
if they are outside of 8m then they can throw AND detonate c4 in the 2 years between your shots.

grinders deal exactly 1000 dmg from both arms within 8m initially (nanoweave will push it way down to 800 dmg)
and this damage is spread over TWENTY pellets, requiring every single one to hit.
i repeat, ALL TWENTY PELLETS MUST HIT THE TARGET.

this meme that NC maxes still have some semblance of damage needs to end,
you can spam all you like at infantry and unless they're in melee range you'll barely be tickling them.
i've played NC max, tried Mattocks, Hacksaws, Grinders and it was pitiful. (switched to freaking awful Gorgons now.),
i've played against NC maxes (i killed one last Friday in CQC with Watchman...)


also i blame wrel because even before he was a dev he kept talking about wanting maxes to be nothing but meatshields,
and now that he is a dev he's said it on livestreams when mentioning his "max rework" that probably won't happen,
if he isn't responsible for this abomination then someone else just happens to share his exact wishes...

so now you are basically saying that a max should perform as a good as the lib which is supposed to be a 3 man operated vehicle (seriously that switching needs to be nerfed at least for the lib, galaxy and valkery) just because the max is that bit more expensive?

also yea this example realy is more the lib being overpowered vs max being lackluster ...

except i said before that shotguns feel lacking but as it seems that particiular part got you triggered pretty well ..
also not all shotguns have to oneshot infantry, cause neither do autoshotguns nor the jackhammer ....
also just to repeat, YES I FIND MAX SHOTGUNS LACKING! ... YES THAT INCLUDES ONESHOT SITUATIONS
and ah yes of COURSE wrel is the ONLY responsible for changes ... ok seriously your behaviour is just realy childish ..

My thoughts? It's bad.
I've basically been playing all other maxes since then.

I don't need them to oneshot, but the damage is absolutely abysmal,
they are shotguns, they are supposed to be cqc powerhouses,
What they should be doing is killing FAST in cqc, while being terrible at range and having no sustained fire.


But people QQed about their free infantry getting killed in cqc by a 450 unit.
So now they lack cqc damage, and yet they still suck at range and sustain.
THEY HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER.

Also you can't play both sides of the argument,
make up your mind, you say "nothing much has changed' and then say they are underwheliming, pick one!
You can't say "well nothing much has changed" and then get uppity when I inform you that it has drastically changed.

NC maxes have been overpowered for 7 years. Now they are brought in line with the other maxes...so cry me a ******* river.
They still demolish every other unit in the game within their effective distance. There's literally no argument to be made that they arent effective enough.

Just how deluded can one get, to argue that "NC MAXES ARE FINE" prior to the nerfs.

there hasn´t much changed in the context of shotguns oneshotting infantry ... the overall performance however did so yes both sentences aply .. sry if you can´t understant context ...