It's funny how things much more balanced and with many more counters have been nerfed in the past but it is such an uproar when the thing that is the MOST unbalanced in this game is asked to be balanced.
Don't touch my MAX ! I am not on here whining about light assaults getting c4 ! Which kills my max instantly 9 out of 10 Bio Lab and doorways or not !
Aw you get killed in Biolabs? Try team work, nade it, rocket launcher it and use supported Max units. On top of that, there's many other counters. I wish my computer would record times when I or others have got many a MAX kill, or when I pull an NC Max or am nearby an NC Max on the same team and get to watch it fall down less than 20 seconds out of the gate. Don't poo poo my statements simply because you're among the forum few whiners always here instead of learning in game how to counter that which you consider out of balance.
Nades are ineffective against Maxes and last I checked I couldn't bend my bullets or rockets around corners. The majority of NC Max kills are due to the Max's mistake and has nothing to do with any skillful counter. I am currently away and don't travel with my gaming pc, so until the time when I can play again I will say what I want, when I want, and where I want about something that I (along with many other people) feel needs to be balanced.
A dual-wielding six-barrel mini-chaingun should instagib infantry by cutting them in half - it doesn't. In fact, it does less damage than a frickin' pistol. Welcome to the 300th page of the 13th discussion mate - people have been saying this forever, the NC ScatMax players ain't buying the OP of their Max.
Works against a TR/VS Max because when they shoot you for 1 second you take like 20% damage. Pop out from cover again you take another 20% damage. Your over-shield isn't even down. Against a ScatMax you're lucky to even get the first rocket off before you're instagibbed. I've played a HaxMax in a semi-organized BioLab fight. You know what happens if an Engineer manages to drop a Tank Mine before being instagibbed by the three Scat/HaxMaxes in the room? The 8 other guys in the room, who are used to playing tight BioLab fights, all start local voice chatting saying "There's a Mine/C4 on the floor" and you watch the room part like the red sea so you can safely blow up the explosive. If anybody is dumb enough to not move away they'll get blown up when somebody disarms the mine by blowing it up, and everybody else will have a laugh at their expense. I've seen this happen. OTOH, I've not seen similar happen as TR. TR are far less organized when it comes to BioLab fights, probably because we don't stick it out as hard as NC. Also because the NC don't need to use special tactics, special weaponry, and be super organized to blow away TR or VS Maxes defending the place. They just pull a bunch of Maxes and Max 'zerg the place. Yup. Unless it's a ScatMax and can either take advantage of doorways, choke points, or Charge. In which case the opponent is instagibbed (or the Max Charges away to get repairs).
Or use slugs, then they get the same range as the TR/VS one. (Mattock), or nearly the same range (grinder).
A good point. Much of the action with a MAX is in short bursts - stepping out to fire, actually firing (especially NC), and retreating back to cover. The result is that drawbacks like short range are somewhat mitigated by using walls and props in CQC fights, that magazine limits and reloading are simple to work around because retreating to full cover is usually possible, and that low MAX mobility isn't much of a drawback, thanks to how effective Charge is. Overall, the NC MAX is able to avoid most of its drawbacks while still enjoying full auto weapons with pump shotgun power. If balance is revolving around the risk/reward factor in classes and vehicles, risks can be increased for the MAX, and reward for shotguns can be reduced.
I believe the issue is the shotguns in general, NC max is working as intended since it has 2 143x6 shotguns(same stats for all shotguns). in this game all shotguns can kill you in a way that you feel like it was a stupid way to die, it feels unfair. im a NC player and have access to the piston, mauler , the pump action and dual grinders and i love them , but i agree that being in the receiving end of shotguns sucks balls. my suggestion is to change all shotguns( dont know how really) or just refund everybody and take all shotguns out of the game, ( give NC max a high dam, low ROF machine guns)
I think you will find that the problem stems from the weapon statistics themselves, the TR and VS equivalents weapons on each arm only do Just over half the damage of a standard LMG. However the NC max gets a full shotgun on each arm. You have to either Half the damage on each Shotgun arm or Buff the TR and VS weapons to a full LMG or even carbine on each arm. The niche of these maxes are supposed to be ranged combat, but the accuracy on each arm means that your forced to play on the NC maxes home turf. TR and VS max: - Half a weapon on each arm - Horrendous accuracy at anything at 20m+ forcing them into the scatmax deathzone NC max: - A full shotgun on each arm - Accuracy is irrelevant because of the nature of the weapon itself SOE please give the other maxes a some love and make them actually fulfill the battlefield role they were intended for.
All slug does is put you on even footings against other faction MAXs in medium range. You actually end up sacrificing a ton of close quarter firepower where you no longer have any advantage when fighitng other MAXs up close. Also, Grinder has too crap of accuracy for slugs.
Regardless of whether the NC max is OP or not, most of the complaining just comes from stupidly bad players. Words of wisdom: Good MAXes of any faction will survive when they have a dedicated engineer repairing them. Smart outfits will always ensure that a MAX is pulled with a dedicated engineer. Don't QQ to the forums when a scatmax pwns you because you were too stupid to pick up on the white aura indicating that an engineer is nearby. Second point: Smart MAX players will utilize corners and door-ways to establish kill-zones. Only idiots sprint around corners. MAXes are defensive units. Any MAX could take down another if that MAX blindly walks into a killzone without support. I farmed up a 55 kill-streak in Mani tonight because everybody was trying to shoot at me instead of my engineer who was only 5 feet away from me. They choose to attack me in single-file by walking into my killzone. I never had to move. If you were there, you're stupid. I could have done that with any MAX. I know this because I play all three factions and I like all three MAXes. And before you say it, I was using standard Mattocks with no slugs or extended mags. I was guarding the SCU door of the Mani SCU generator room, and I could only kill what came through the door or was standing around 10 feet outside of it. Anything outside of that was out of my effective range, and I could only damage them. I wasn't OP hacksaw roflcharging or QQpewpew slugging everything. I don't even have any certs into my MAX armor. I finally went down when people figured out they should stop rushing in single-file and should try to use explosives. In my opinion, NC max isn't OP. You all just suffer from user error.
The TR MAX is as effective as any NC combo at close-medium range: fact. The only difference between each is a trade between Alpha-Damage and Sustainable Damage. NC MAX goes for Alpha Damage. The TR MAX goes for DPS. The former is more useful vs MAXes and the latter more useful vs Infantry masses. But only with extended ammo is the NC MAX able to kill the TR MAX in one salvo. And even then, it is still a close call that can go either way. In such a situation, the S key is your friend since people underestimate the difference just distancing yourself 2m more from an NC MAX makes. The real clincher is the Slug ammo available for the NC MAX that give it flexibility that simply catch the other team offguard (and trick some into the thinking the NC MAX is effective beyond 10m by defaults). I think it is only fair that the other MAXes are given similar options: - Armour Piercing Rounds for TR MAX: Slight increase in accuracy, Slight increase in muzzle velocity, Increase in Anti-MAX damage, Decrease in Anti-Infantry Damage - Charged Plasma Rounds for VS MAX: Less ROF and Ammo Capacity, Increase in muzzle velocity, Increase in Anti-MAX DPS, Decrease in Anti-Infantry DPS It is this flexibility that other factions need to go for rather than the CQC capability. Even with equal Alpha Damage and superior sustainable firepower the other MAXes will be short of the NC MAX. Why? They will lack the options. Just look at the current situation: got killed by a Scat-MAX really quickly beyond 10m? It was using Slugs. Got killed by a Scat-MAX really quickly closer than 10m? It was using Default ammo. It is as simple as that. Maybe SOE needs to add different sound effects for either, so people know what they are facing. Otherwise the weaknesses are there. But yeah, Engineers make MAXes OP, not the weapons. While the repairs should be available for the MAX, they shouldn't be so in mid-combat. I actually giggle to myself sometime when I see a chain of a MAX being repaired by an Engineer that is being healed by a Medic. Fact is that it is a hard combo to counter since only serious firepower will break that chain. I believe damage done to the MAX should not necessarily break the repair link, but at least disrupt its effectiveness. This is considering that an Engineer repairing a MAX can stay a fair distance back with an upgraded repair took that going for him becomes too much of a risk (the closer you get to the enemy, the more enemies you will expose yourself to)
I think I've answered at another dedicated NC max user, but I'll repeat it again here. The issue with your advice is that it's bad for anyone not using an NC max. It works great for NC maxes due to the nature of the weapon, but it is completely wrong to be used for TR and VS maxes. Here's what I would advice our VS max users: A VS max cannot afford to stick to corners and doorways like the NC ones can. The TTK of the weapons are really slow (in comparison) and you can't prevent people from throwing missiles and detonating C4 at your feet. You need both the space to move around left and right so you spoil the aim of the inevitable rocket in your face and the C4 thrown at your feet. Always slice the pie from a distance. What that means is that you do a wide angle sweep of any doorway but staying long away from the actual doorway. The optimal slicing distance is 20+ meters away from the door. In case a NC max is behind the door, that will give you the time to sprint away. Exactly because you need to slice the pie in wider angles, you'll get fired by enemy infantry a lot more than a NC max, that can move from cover to cover. VS maxes need a lot more support in this regard than NC ones. You'll also get rocketed a lot more often than NC maxes, despite constantly moving, thus you need to be as close to max health as possible at all times. If in doubt sprint away. Two HA firing at you can kill you in seconds and a NC max with hacksaws will down you in less than one. You are not a tank, you are fragile and you need to accept that. You are merely a weapons firing platform that can withstand a few extra shots. You're also a first class bait for enemy maxes. If you don't know what's behind a doorway, let a friendly VS trooper bite the bullet first. If you can hear an NC max behind a corner or door, stay well away from said corner and wait until the NC max steps out to look or tries to rush you. Be on the ready to sprint away yourself. If the NC max rushes but starts hitting your VS soldiers, turn around and shoot him back. If he goes after you keep running and let the infantry finish him off. As I said earlier, you're not a tank, you're bait. (pro tip: you can stop a max sprint by firing your weapons). If you're not part of a max crash, don't go first. Your job is to maintain control of a point, but in general you're really vulnerable and unfit to go and gain control of one. You can certainly help your own troops by pooring into a control area room, but by going first it only means that you get downed by either the hard hitting NC weapons or a single NC max. If you need to enter any room, always use the slice the pie technique. If an NC max crash rushes the point you control, sprint away and pick them from afar when they try to close the gap. People in max crashes are more reckless and they will just run head on to you in a lot of occasions. You should have time to take down at least one. You will die a lot more than an NC max ever will. You will need to accept that. Inform all your fellow VS players that only medics can rezz maxes and they only have a minute to do it before you become unrezzable. You also have no rezz icon on top of your coprse like a normal soldier. You have a higher ammo capacity than the NC max, use it. Keep on firing on opening doors or any placement that you expect enemies to come out from. Don't let them come in and don't let them fire at you without punishment. When the **** hits the fan and you can't avoid a close encounter with an NC max, always aim for the head. Assuming you got a lottery ticket and the max user wasn't any good, you'll manage to kill him a lot faster. Keep back peddaling when facing an NC max. Never go forward, always backwards. Whatever small distance you gain between you and the NC max by moving backwards will always be to your advantage. The most versatile weapon in the VS arsenal right now is the cosmos. Keep in mind that it's a slow firing weapon, so you'll need to lead your targets a little bit. Flak armor is usually your friend, since you usually won't be able to stop people firing explosives at you. Kinetic is better than flak when dealing with infantry fire, but only if you feel confident enough and experienced enough to keep explosive users away.
Ok, Ok, we get it, we're stupid. If we try to get close to the max, we're stupid because we walked into it's kill zone. If we try to fight it from afar, we're stupid because he can take cover and be repaired. If we shoot at the max, we're stupid because we're ignoring the engineer, and if we shoot the engineer we're stupid because we ignored the max. So, I guess the only non stupid option you have when you see a NC max is to redeploy.
