NC low win-rate - where is the balance?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Trizadd, May 1, 2016.

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  1. Vaphell

    Can, but will they in a consistent manner?
    Also I don't think there is much point in doing some synthetic comparisons while ignoring human factor. Spreadsheet numbers laid out in an asymetric way do not make a game, spreadsheet numbers combined with players having their not always rational preferences make the game.
    And even if you assume that one of the factions draws all the mouthbreathers, you have to balance around that, unless maximizing the enjoyment of most people is not your goal, but why would any gamedev bias their 3-way game towards 2-way, which could easily snowball into a massive ****-show?

    Take Starcraft 2 or Warcraft 3. I stopped following blizzard games long time ago, but I recall that blizzard took statistical discrepancies seriously. And even if it was hard to find a concrete proof of imbalance between races and tweaks were not perfect, at the end of the day, even if you played an purported "easier" race, the game still compensated for it by pitting you with players adequate for your MMR/ELO rating.
    Shouldn't the game account for the quite recent influx of "skill" on the TR side in some way?

    It's not. Top 1% of players do not balance make. Also SS is a tiny subset of the whole problem space, for example what does SS tell you about vehicular balance? Absolutely nothing, that's what. It appears that in the minmaxed play ground vehicles are a horrendous waste of resources, BTFOed by equally priced air that enjoys unmathed mobility without sacrificing anything for it. Is SS meta still about air, sundies, MAXes and HAs?

    SS is almost an entirely different game from the live play.
  2. LawfulGhoul

    That would be a bandaid, and a temporary one at best, because once their weapons are OP, the minmaxers would flock in to exploit them and skew the balance in the other direction.

    It's the job of a game designer to identify and fix the root cause of the problem. Since you mention Blizzard: When WoW showed a systematic player imbalance in favor of Alliance, they didn't hastily tweak some numbers, they did their research and found that actually, ugly character models repelled too many players from Horde. Solution: Blood Elves.

    Some psychological factor in PS2's faction design repels too many coordinated, team-oriented players from NC. It could be anything, really -- music, uniforms, weapon sounds... We don't have the data to tell, only that the phenomenon exists.
  3. LaughingDead

    Ah so people like bdsm and communism over capitalism. I'd rather not include more spandex or weird music in the NC, but at first glance, the NC starter models look way too...dorky... They're like if you got walmart workers and strapped plastic armor from the halloween section on them. I'd like something a bit...tasteful?

    And let's not forget that the guns are hard to use. You're expected to down people with the starting saw in 6 shots, after those 6, you bloom erratically and it doesn't get any better, the learning curve is quite steep; if people don't learn how to use the guns, they don't use them and try something else or they're left continuously trying to understand what they're doing wrong and continue to be frustrated which is unfair to new players.
  4. Money

    NC's Max game is kind of like a strong fighter going against another fighter with better reach. You going to take some shots to get close enough to do damage. NC's max's are great for defense but terrible at pushing because they can't hit anything. The other empires don't operate from the same disadvantage
  5. The Shady Engineer

    Aegis shield and dual Mattocks with slugs. If they're to far away to Mattock, just AV their *** with Ravens. NC MAX stronk.
  6. MacBaren

    No balance, NC is clearly inferior to the others.
    No recoil, not spray, flying tanks etc .....
    • Up x 1
  7. Call-Me-Kenneth

    people really need to stop claiming NC has "OP" weapons... they don't, the weapons are only as good as their real use shows. the 200dmg guns are all fine on paper and some are phenomenal in use, but their effect in game is minimal.

    if the heavies get crap LMGs, then you get crap damage on the field. not talking about individual players here, im talking about the whole. forget medics and engineers, dishing out the pain and holding lanes is a heavies JOB, because only a HA can face off another HA and win or lose, but do so fairly.

    its just a numbers game, at any given moment most players on the field will be "in training". where most TR and VS heavies will be at their skill ceiling, NC ones will be going full auto with a SAW. and while guns like the 11 and the Reaper are formidable, the moment medics and engineers start playing as heavies your faction is doomed.

    we need to change the SAW from the base gun, as a gun on its own its just great and fun to use, by far the most challenging gun in game. but new players shouldn't get their hands on it, maybe make it a cheap unlock.

    if the game were compromised by 100% good players with lots of experience, then the NC would be balanced, given that at any given time most players are new then you will always have an unbalance against the NC. the starting guns only make this worse.
  8. DragenoidHighLord

    True,NC are rough around the edges,but to new players it shouldn't be like that from the start with their first weapon,so i agree with post above since its very true.I mean the SAW is a good weapon (i 30% to auraxium medal) and argubly the hardest hittin LMGs in the game.I would suggest something that is smoother to control (sorry if i don't know weapons name ) but everyone could agree anything but Gaus SAW is better for newbies to learn and become familiar with LMGs in the game.
  9. Scifi

    well maybe if the NC side had a Vulcan/Gatekeeper on their Harasser and chainguns and no bullet drop,maybe just maybe there might be a change!
    • Up x 1
  10. Atakx

    It is by no means our gear holding us back, though it is partly the devs fault though unintentionally, you see in the old blur trailer and much of the promotional work and even the newer load screen, NC has been made to look like the good guy, this draws in casual players, player that have issues improving, players who want to be the hero and don't need anyone's help, players who swear everyone else gets the better toys when proven other wise. The nc has an excess of grunts, no one wants to lead, no one wants to admit they just got outplayed, no one wants to get better and work as a team. I see it when I try and run squads even in my outfit, can't pass lead when I'm burning out, even basic maneuvers somehow become complicated, I tell them to stay on lead and follow me, break into point clear it for a brief moment, and bam I'm the only one that made it. The NC can't be buffed because honestly if the NC acted even half as coordinated as the TR and VS we would need a nerf.
  11. The Shady Engineer

    Yeah I'm gonna have to agree with our SAW being one of the biggest reasons new players flip to other factions. There's no denying that HA is by far the most used class, and new NC heavies are given arguably the hardest automatic to handle in the entire game.

    Don't get me wrong, I love my SAW. It's the second LMG I aurax'd after the EM6 and is an absolute monster once outfitted with attachment and the user gets used to how it handles. That said, new players don't know about recoil or CoF stats. Often times when playing my TR alt, I see battle rank nothing NC heavies ADADing with a SAW while holding down the trigger. First two rounds hurt, sure, but the follow ups are so terrible, I can walk up to them and knife them.

    GD-22S or even the EM6 or SAW S would've been better starter weapons.
  12. Diilicious

    i havent read the entire thread, but on cobalt at least, 99% of the NC are literally complete dribbling morons, i am never surprised when NC dont win, or TR for that matter because TR arent any better, they are just painted red instead. both factions are unbelievably dumb. where as VS might be dumb but they are very organised by comparison making their stupidity much less apparent.
    • Up x 1
  13. Taemien

    Newbies fleeing aren't causing losses. Only 1 in 10 make it off Koltyr (BR15). So the newbie to vet ratio is very very low.

    One thing I'd like to point out again is the fact that NC doesn't 'lose all the time' during primetime alerts in the last 2 months. For NC to be at 33% win rate according to the posted stats... they'd have to win every alert for the next next quarter, meaning they are OP AF.

    When using stats such as win percentages to see where a faction stands. Historical stats don't work as well (don't work for anything actually due to content updates and patches). Use the current trends instead. And make sure its primetime for the server in question... that's where most of the VS got their wins from, at least on Connery about a year ago. Late night ghost capping isn't an indication of being overpowered.
  14. freeAmerish

    If the Gauss SAW is such a problem to handle, what is stoping you to replace it? The dev´s gave you
    a hint Genudine Dynamics developed the 22S as a possible replacement for the NC6 SAW. In comparison
    to the SAW, it...
    Even a low Battle rank TR/VS Infiltrator is able to unlock a M77-B/XM98.
  15. William Petersen

    I'm surprised to see this, because the alerts I see (on Conenry) are usually thrown by the VS to the TR because the VS refuse to fight them, even when TR are 40% pop.
  16. H4YW1R3

    I don't know about other servers, but on Emerald, the NC have nothing and no one to blame but themselves.

    I try to play NC, but I always end up getting frustrated and quit. NC have some really nice vehicles and weapons. And they have some good players. But as a whole, it seems they're either lack common sense, or just don't care.

    It seems as though they're simply incapable of looking at a map and, after seeing who is in the lead, figuring it out for themselves where they need to fight, and who they need to be fighting. It's as though they get butt-hurt tunnel vision on one faction and practically go all out against that one, forcing that other faction to answer, and giving the third an easy win.

    And at the bases, it's the same. NC players (most of them it seems) lack the common sense to figure it out and prioritize what needs to be done. Instead of stopping gen overloads or repairing them once they go down, or capping the point before the SCU becomes vulnerable and yet another threat to divide resources, or taking out the enemy spawn, they're instead running around all over the map like idiots. Fighting in useless buildings, hiding in the rocks, etc. They don't seem to be able to figure it out that there are almost always multiple paths (including tunnels, teleports, jump pads, etc) to a goal or objective. Instead, they just run the same old direct path to be farmed over and over. Even when you call it out in /regionsay, they just don't get it, or don't care.

    I'm not saying NC/Emerald are the only faction/server with these types of players. They all have them. But NC/Emerald, in my experience, has the highest concentration of them. I play all three factions, but I often get frustrated and quit not long after I log onto NC. And the experience usually results in my needing time before I can log onto NC again, and then not without at least some feeling of dread.

    But this is what happens, and then NC players run to the forums and blame everything and everyone, but themselves.
  17. orangejedi829

    In threads like this, TR and VS players inevitably throw out the claim that "NC players are just worse overall." However, I have yet to see any actual statistics that show this. On the contrary, common-pool weapon performance shows that this claim is false.

    So then what is it that is causing the NC to perform significantly worse than the other factions if not their players?
    A while back, I made a post that detailed a mathematical statistical analysis comparing faction wins. The result was that, mathematically, we can say with more than 99.9999999999999999% certainty that the NC is at an objective disadvantage compared to the other factions based on win rate. The win rate of VS was something like 14 standard deviations above the expected value were the factions even. For those whose statistics is rusty, 1 standard deviation is generally considered statistically significant, 2-3 standard deviations is considered very significant. 4 standard deviations is extremely significant. 5 is ludicrously significant. 14 might as well be in another freaking galaxy.
    In other words, math proves that the factions aren't balanced when it comes to winning alerts. And there are no statistics that show that the players are the cause of this. So what is the cause of this indisputable imbalance?
    • Up x 1
  18. lsp1

    I play both NC and TR, I do not notice a difference in the quality of the teammates. They're both equally stupid pugs like every other game. Where I do notice a difference is that TR weaponry is much easier to use. The guns are practically laser beams with little recoil. Higher RoF will win over raw damage every single time if the person is decent. I know that from first hand experience with this game. If a TR HA with a carv comes up against me with a SAW, and he actually hits me consistently, I die. Same thing when I'm playing TR, NC just doesn't stand a chance against the high RoF/low recoil. There's a reason why I like the EM1 better than the SAW. high RoF and great at hipfiring. And why I like the Gr-22, and why it's one of the best NC weapons. Because it's high RoF/low recoil.

    So the game is still unbalanced 4 years after it was launched. VS is even worse, no recoil= never missing if you're good.
  19. lsp1

    I've never seen this happen. Look at my signature, created in 2012. Sounds like bullsht to me.
    • Up x 1
  20. SpaceTimeSpace

    I'm sorry, are you here for Customer Service or Game Q&A.
    Balance? Do you request for nerfs to be carried out? Please go to the bug section.
    Yeah I feel your pain man, fight for your fractions with all you got, but the winning fractions got the populations, talent, tactics, upper-hand and "meta-game-creativity".
    How do you solve it? Put more ideas on how the game can be playable or enjoy it with fellow PS2 players!
    I really need to get off Forums.
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