NC low win-rate - where is the balance?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Trizadd, May 1, 2016.

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  1. Pfundi

    I have to strongly disagree.
    To my experience everyone creating a new char tends to start with the VS. Mybe because they are the most Sci-Fi about Planetside or their default guns are nice for beginners. I dont know. But everyone I know (well, except forumsiders, etc.) started off as VS (including me. Still regret it... Spandex...).
    Is there a way to really find out and not only guess what new players choose? Would be interesting...
  2. Pfundi

    The SAW is 100% accurate even without attachments. With its first shot. The newer you are the longer you hold down the trigger. Theres the problem.
    • Up x 1
  3. rahte

    In other words: "If you will stand on head, and clap your ears twice, the your equipment will work" (that NC should flank enemy, shoot with burst's, shoot with single shot, etc.). Despite it is not working :) I have to remind you that weapons are to be effective, not to have nice attachments or to kill AFK players, or those who forget how to move.

    One advantage (dmg) doesn't compensate other two disadvantages (bloom and low RoF).

    If you think that tap firing with RoF ~250 (tap firing for maintaining accuracy)) with 200 dmg and dealing 50 000 dmg per min is equal to RoF 750 with 143 dmg and dealing 107250 dmg per minute, then what can I say?

    I want NC weapons to be the same effective like any weapon VS and TR weapons, because with VS and TR weapons any beginner can kill everyone even at 100m. And the is that big problem we are talking about, and if you think that better euipment for VS and TR is "good" and "balanced", then I can't do anything about it.

    If you are saying that VS and TR weapons should be more effective and have better performance because they are not NC (you said
    "hardest hitting weapons" but because NC have higher dmg I will make it clear for you), then I cant do nothing about it eather.
  4. rahte

    You should take scout rifles... they are more effective in single shooting. Believe me :)
  5. Pfundi

    They lack the panick mode and the magazine capacity.
  6. Campagne

    As much as I'd love to debate the effectiveness of all of the equipment you mentioned, I'm just gonna comment on the Railjack, which in my opinion, receives far too high praise.

    To be brief, the Railjack is, as a general purpose weapon, worse than the Longshot/Parallax/Rams .50. Its higher muzzle velocity is negated by its 200ms firing-delay; that is to say, out to about 200 meters the bullet will land slower after the trigger has been pulled than a Longshot/ES equivalent.

    The Railjack does indeed have bullet drop. It is very minimal to about 100-150 meters, where it starts to increase at a rather steep rate. Currently, the only sniper rifles without bullet drop are the VS semi-autos and the Phaseshift, the only "bolt-action" that does not have drop, while still able to kill in one headshot.

    Additionally, the Railjack has a suppressor velocity penalty of 50%, 10% higher than that of every other sniper rifle in the game. This makes it worse in both drop and velocity to an unsuppressed longshot.
  7. rahte

    After 500 kills with Railjack I gave up. Maybe some day I will come back to make 1000 just to have a feeling of finnishing something what I have started, but right now I have a bunch of new NC weapons to facepalm about :).

    Whant I wanted to say: I think it is typical. Unlike VS nad TR weapons that have one or two strong traits and usually one disadvantage, NC weapons have one strong trait and several disadvantages that makes them faaar way beyond avarage and sometimes useless

    I mean, that velocity could be balanced in many diffrent ways. I.e.: give railjack only one bullet in mag and for example 3 sec reload. In this way weapon would have it's niche, and in some twisted way it would fit in in "hitting strong but slow", and you would know for what you are paying for: useless weapon for typical fight and really good one for long fight unless you have enought skill to hit headshot, and 3 seconds it is a long time on a battlefield when you miss.... but right now Railjack in comparison to other sniper rifles nierly useless, good in taking down AFK players and snipers up to BR 20.
  8. Gundem

    Trying to balance a weapon that is easy to kill with by limiting it's kill potential is not balancing it.

    And regarding your entire statement and your signature...

    NC weapons do tend to have a couple of downsides, you are correct in this regard. But the advantages they gain are vastly superior to the mediocre advantages of TR or VS weapons.

    Example #1, the Cyclone. 650RPM, with 167 damage profile for a 3 headshot kill. Fastest non-OHK infantry based TTK in the game.

    Example #2, the Gauss SAW. Incredibly accurate burst fire, with the ability to kill in 3 headshots at any range.

    I can give more if you'd like.
  9. DragenoidHighLord

    NCs poor performance is all on the mercy of good outfits or platoons since i have not yet seen a deadly platoon which sweeps across the map in organised fashion,but we all know how hard it is to really lead a platoon and the stubborn players in the NC.So far BHO (i am in the outfit myself,go ahead laugh) Miller server and its resolved to either group up and like a horde attack a tile or go spread out and try to take land as fast as possible.

    The leadership of platoons and outfits is all a constantly changing factor because there is always more factors to the leaders life or time to play etc. making it all more unpredictable for NC to stop being cannon fodder and a russian turtle and being a horrible monster created by DBC.
  10. rahte

    It is exacly what balancing should look like to make it profesional, moreover all VS and TR weapons are balanced this way (one draw back in couple really do advantages).... oh yeah....except those weapons which are not balanced at all (vide prowler with all it's goodies)... but they are not NC... I forgot. NC weapons have to be blanaced in "spetial way". (sarcasm)

    About Saw I talked before and I do not want to repeat myself.

    You so focused about DMG and calculating theoretical situations when that it might be usefull, that you forget about actual performance in the game. And performance is tragic, and reflects on k/d ratio among NC and capability in closing continets. It is not only problem of infantry weapons but also tanks, maxes and fighters. How this tunelvision looks in details? I.e.: You forgot to mention that those 167 dmg for cyclone is up to 5 meters....and that you have to hit those 3 headshots on 5 meters from enemy :)... but that would be inconvinient... :)

    You can rewrite all DMG statistic and this will not change a thing about performance of those weapons. You can also calculate all headshots needed to kill with this dmg input... for instant bullet traveling and theoretical situation when enemy do not move... Moreover if you think that that thing, and only that thing (dmg), justifies nerfing them to the ground in all other weapon statistics that affects performance in the game to make it fair for You, then there is nothing what I can about it.
  11. Gundem

    All your crying about statistics, yet statistically, my NC characters perform the best out of my TR or VS.

    So, considering we already have proof that the NC are incompetent, with their increased TK'ing greater then that of the VS and TR combined... I'll stick with my sentiment.

    Also, the NC weapons have a LOT more then damage going for them. Namely, low horizontal recoil. Experienced players such as myself have no trouble handling vertical recoil, but horizontal recoil is random and cannot be compensated for. I can win 1v1's with CQC weapons with my stock Gauss SAW because chaining headshots with that thing is literally child's play once you learn to compensate for the vertical recoil.
  12. rahte

    In my prevous posts I was talking about three groups of rationalizations of basic facts...or denying of basic facts.
    - "If you will stand on head, and clap your ears twice, the your equipment will work" (thet NC should flank enemy, shoot with burst's, shoot with single shot etc.),
    - "It is your fault that your equipment is a piece of junk" (NC have bad players),
    - "Fact's deasn't matter. Everything works just fine." (despite of all facts, they do not want to change anything, because buffing NC would take those easy wins from them).

    Why people do create those rationalizations? One of the reasons might be the thing, that they would have to admit, that when they are winning over NC, in fact they are winning over underpowered and badly equipped enemy, and their skill have nothing to do with it.

    1st of all: I do not cry :) just showig basic facts. If facts do oppress you then there is nothing what I can do about it.

    2nd of all: I have to remind you that if all NC are incompetent then You are among them :) (humor)...but there are always unindetified "others", when someone tells that kind of fantasy (?). That thing what you have said is is statistically imposible. Moreover THE SAME players play TR, VS and NC (like me or you). That should cause similiar level of TK among all fractions.... but it is not. The only explanation for curent situation in equipment - it is more than explanation - it is simple basic ugly truth :)

    3rd of all: Gaus Saw have similiar recoil pattern like CARV and Orion (it means that it kicks horizontally to both sides - and yes adv.grip will compensate it 8% more than standard one), the thing that you do not know that is really interesting.

    4th of all: Low rate of fire weapons have significant disadvantage in CQC because of probability of hiting someone when hipfiring. To make it more simple: more bullets, more chances to kill and more chances to hit headshot. (that was a little digresion)

    5th of all: It is really interesting that you mention CQC with gaus saw, because engagements up to 10-20 meters are the one where that weapon suffers the most because all reasons which I written before. Trying to prove something? The thing in which I am really interested is not how you remember engagements, but how did you performed (your K/D ratio with that weapon when eliminating target closer than 20 meters). In general Gauss Saw have generally lowest KPU from all basic LMG's. To be honest KPU is really not that important. Important statistic would be K/D ratio with Gauss Saw within 20 meters from capture points. That would be interesting.
  13. LaughingDead

    If you really want to split hairs, here.

    TR has the highest dps AR in the game

    VS have sniper rifles with high bullet velocities without compensation for bullet drop

    Plus factions are more than just one gun.
  14. Gundem

    My NC main.

    All of it, CQC. Take it as you will.
  15. Exitus Acta Probat

    At ranges were it would matter with no bullet drop, the phaseshift is not a one headshot kill, its more of a mid-range gimmicky weapon (hence the reason its almost never used outside of curiosity), I would of said close-range to mid-range weapon but the charge up delay is to punishing for close range.
  16. Gundem

    And I didn't say the NC have the highest DPS AR.

    Also, VS BASR's have bullet drop. The SASR's, while true that for some reason the VS have higher velocity, are such a small and uncommonly used set of weapons that it hardly even puts a dent in any argument in favor of mass buffs for NC. Not saying that I wouldn't fix it if I had the power, but it's simply not that significant.

    As for wanting multiple, stellar guns...

    Cyclone. Blitz. Anchor. EM6. Gauss SAW. GDS-22. Reaper DMR. Tross. NC Gauss Rifle. NC Gauss Compact. Gauss Burst. Bandit. AX-11. Jackhammer.

    This is the list of weapons is just off the top of my head. I know there are more, but I don't recall their names.
  17. LaughingDead

    But all of those weapons have the same ttk as other factions variants.
    The point was that each faction has their own special weapons and some have better weapons than others, a faction is more than just one gun if you're going to pull something like the cyclone or powerjack out, what about the minichain guns higher ttk on a heavy class?
  18. Gundem

    My point is that the NC has a LOT of really good weapons, and that any competent player should have no trouble performing exceptionally well.

    Also, the MCG is actually pretty meh. It has a high RoF, but it's RoF spooling makes it quite poor in any 1v1 engagement, but in a sustained firefight you will get focused down, so you can't utilize it there either.
    • Up x 1
  19. LaughingDead

  20. Campagne

    It can kill out to 200m, or so I've been told. That's more than enough range for drop to matter. Not to mention, still no drop when suppressed.

    For closer ranges, it still fires semi-auto.
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