NC LA/carbines problums

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by pattonmaster, May 16, 2015.

  1. pattonmaster

    So I have played only NC for the past year or so play mostly LA with a little medic and infiltrator on the side. Anyway I recently got really tired of getting stomped by the VS (cough 40 duce, DPSO, cough) and after all fighting only TR after a time get a bit tiring as well. I decided to try out the TR (as I swear to never play VS) and found to my delight that I was doing so much better as a BR5 TR LA as opposed to a BR39 NC LA. But that got me thinking why do I seem to fail when I play my as a NC LA, is it that the NC pop on Connery are scrubs, am I just bad at it, or are the NC carbines just trash? Ether way I thought it was the guns so I decided to compare what the NC can wield vs what the other two factions can. And I think the main "problem" with the NC carbines is that there doctrine does not apply well to the carbine class of weapons. Let me explain; the faction spec of the NC is hard hitting longer ranged weapons, now to balance this they there weapons have a very slow RPM. On ARs and LMGs this is fine but on carbines we run in to problems namely that carbines are meant to be close range weapons, and I think that RPM is the most important stat in CQC, and when you compare the DPS of say the AF-19 mercenary (1,670 max) and the Trac 5 (1787.5 max) They just don't add up to be balanced. But what about head shots and accuracy you say, well in a CQC environment its not super easy (for me) to get the head shots needed, and as for acc don't get me started, the AF-19 and trac-9 both have .3 acc when moving and adsing BUT all of the NC carbines of a bloom of .6 compared to everyone's .5. I guess that I just don't see where the NC carbines are better in any specific role or place. Now please prove me wrong or tell me that I am doing something dreadfully wrong.
  2. Mongychops

    Right, which is why NC get the GD7F, the joint highest DPS carbine in the game. The cyclone SMG is pretty damn good for CQC as well.

    Also you can't compare 143 and 167 damage weapons simply on DPS. Accuracy and TTK are very different.
  3. pattonmaster

    Track-5
    Accuracy

    Hip
    Aim
    Crouch
    Still:
    1
    0.1
    Move:
    1.5
    0.2
    Stand
    Still:
    1.5
    0.1
    Move:
    2
    0.3
    Bloom per Shot:
    0.1
    0.05


    AF-19
    Accuracy

    Hip
    Aim
    Crouch
    Still:
    1
    0.03
    Move:
    1.5
    0.15
    Stand
    Still:
    1.5
    0.03
    Move:
    2
    0.3
    Bloom per Shot:
    0.12
    0.06

    Now I don't know about you bit I'd say they aren't worlds apart on the accuracy side of things. And standing still in CQC is not always a good idea or an option. Also the weapons you mentioned are all cost 1,000 certs. I don't want a OP starting weapon, just one that is good at something that all
  4. Iridar51

    "I do better with X faction" is usually just an impression, caused by small sample size. BR5 is nothing. I'd say around BR40 is required to more or less feel out the faction, but even then - stats don't lie, and LA weapons are very similar between factions.

    There are very few actually "trash" weapons, and I wouldn't count any conventional carbine among them. By "conventional" I mean all carbines except burst and S-series (the ones with underbarrel attachments).

    NC have the widest carbine selection in the game. There's GD-7F carbine with 143 damage that beats all TR carbines in close quarters, including the Lynx, though this one only by a small margin.

    But even if you compare only the default weapons, yes - you are correct, they are better for different things. TRAC 5 is more close-range oriented, while Mercenary is a bit more long-range oriented. But both are amazing weapons, in their own regard. Mercenary has potential to be one of the most accurate weapons in the game, while TRAC 5 just has very solid stat allocation for close quarters, without sacrificing much at mid range.
    • Up x 1
  5. Iridar51

    Recoil is also a very important factor, and Mercenary has horizontal recoil notably lower than TRAC 5. In fact, the only carbine with less horizontal recoil is Pulsar C, and even then only because it has access to advanced forward grip.

    Mercenary also has no recoil angle and no recoil angle variance, while TRAC 5 has both those things, which makes the recoil pattern less consistent. And don't discount very fast reload of the Mercenary.

    Yes, within 15m none of it matters, and TRAC 5 theoretically should win every time. But add a bit more distance, and Mercenary's advantage will become clear.

    Here's some footage by the one same (really good) guy with both these weapons:

  6. pattonmaster


    You are probably right, It just feels like whenever I pull my LA I get creamed. And I hate that as I love the ideas behind the LA and I enjoy playing them. But when I am only able to get a kill ever 5 deaths I just give up and switch to a medic or sniper set-up.
  7. Iridar51

    Get better then! There are many ways you can improve your play, the easiest one would be to follow guide links in my signature.
  8. Leivve


    Advertise like a shameless *****.


    But really though for the OP; the biggest tip anyone can give you is; fight smarter not harder.
  9. Iridar51

    If I knew a better place to send him, I'd send him there. Besides, it's not like I claim a monopoly on good content. I link tons of videos or just opinions by other people, leaving out irrelevant, wrong or outdated content. I own the site, but it's not that different from linking a wiki page, really.

    I count two ways of learning: on own mistakes, or mistakes of other people. I think second way is faster and easier, though not as convincing, and with some risk of being affected by subjective opinions too much.
    • Up x 1
  10. Corezer

    Send him to WisdomCube, WisdomCube knows all...
  11. Grumblefern

    Okay so:

    GD-7F has .05 bloom, extremely high rate of fire, and is about the lowest TTK you're going to get with a Carbine. Your other carbines do more damage per bullet, thus take fewer shots to kill, and that's why they have .06 bloom. It is not some unfair disadvantage.

    NC Carbines are arguably the best of all factions overall. They definitely have the most diverse options. TR and VS each have a few strong ones and a bunch of duds(or at least overly-similar options), while I can find arguments to use any NC Carbine.

    GD-7F has the best velocity of any CQC Carbine, beating even carbines with much lower RoF. The default Mercenary is probably the most well rounded carbine in the game, with great accuracy, good TTK, and reasonable hip-fire. The AC-X11 is a monster for ADS headshot-focused players who want a strong ranged carbine as well. And the Gauss Compact S is the only underbarrel gun I could stand to use.

    I would gladly trade VS's Carbine options for NC's. The one gun I use most on VS, the Pulsar C, is essentially just a less versatile(lower RoF so not as good for closer engagements) but more accurate Mercenary.


    The only thing NC doesn't quite have is something like the Jaguar, although the Bandit was SOE's attempt to give them something similar(along with Zenith for VS which also is no Jaguar).

    ___

    The only thing you are probably right about is that Connery NC are scrubs. :D

    I always fight(AKA farm) NC if I can over dealing with TR. NC has a couple outfits with almost all their good players, but if I avoid them NC's random players are much easier to fight than TR's IMO.


    Anyway, try VS and TR out if you really think their carbines are so much better though. It's good to learn the other faction's weapons regardless.
  12. Armcross

    Welcome to the Republic
  13. Psykmoe

    I don't believe there's any real bad NC carbines. But, full disclosure, I do not own the GD-7F.

    Let's just start from the beginning I guess. From cheapest to most expensive.

    Mercenary: Free!
    This is actually a very solid multi-purpose gun. It's recoil pattern is friendly enough for some mid-range ADS work even without a grip, 600rpm/167dmg is a solid damage profile, with a standard laser the hipfire is pretty good too. Merc with laser is never the worst choice you could have made for your situation! First shot recoil in ADS perhaps not ideal but still lower than a slew of other 167dmg guns. My personal favorite of the starter carbines although the Trac-5 is better in the first 10-15 meters as Iridar said.

    Gauss Compact Burst, 100 certs:
    This is a very specialized gun locked into a 2x167 damage burst. I wouldn't recommend it for beginners, but the shot grouping is horizontally tight. I don't feel this offers much extra range due to every second shot getting the first shot recoil, but its more accurate in ADS than other 167dmg guns - if you're not strafing constantly while ADSing with this, you're wasting the gun's upside. It doesn't need a grip, with a laser and enough clicking it's good in hipfire too. Not my style.

    AC-X11, 250 certs:
    Now this gun is just NC as all hell! Let's get the downsides out of the way first. 24 rounds per mag makes misses unfortunate. Your damage per mag is quite solid but every miss costs you more. Not recommended if you tend to panic-spray. Search your soul. Carbines lose 2 tiers of damage (3 for certain bullet hoses like GD-7F and one of the VS equivalents) and losing the top tiers of damage hurts worse. A Mercenary will lose 42 damage per bullet at range, the AC loses 55 damage per bullet. If you move in ADS the AC-X11 is somewhat less precise than other carbines. Its velocity is poor if you don't use HVA. But there's upsides! 500rpm/200dmg is actually a very good damage output compared to other precision carbines. At very long ranges they'll catch up because their bullets lose less damage, but in mid range the AC-X11 is excellent. Many carbines have worse recoil than assault rifles, this is not true for the AC-X11, its recoil is on par with the Reaper and much lower than the SAW. If you're a fair hand at close-range ADS fighting the 200 damage bullets are just brutal. Most other precision carbines have poor damage up close, the AC-X11 doesn't have this problem. Very controllable gun in general, since the low rate of fire/high damage design makes recoil compensation trivial. Not bad at all for a 250 cert gun.

    Razor, 250 certs:
    Another precise carbine. Among 167dmg carbines, the Razor has very low recoil and only moderate first shot recoil. It handles very smooth. While it doesn't have the raw punch of the AC-X11, the Razor retains more precision when you strafe in ADS, has much better velocity, and a downright absurd short reload of only 1.66 seconds! This gun is extremely comfortable to use, but is less viable in close range unless you're skilled at short-range ADS head-popping. If that's your style, the Razor is your gun. The rate of fire is the only thing the Razor isn't awesome at, frankly. Funny enough, the Razor's recoil per bullet is closer to that of the 143dmg GD-7F than to other 167dmg carbines, while firing 300 rpm slower. As you can imagine, it'll feel totally trivial to control and keep on target.

    Gauss Compact S, 500 certs:
    The days of drop podding onto an antenna mast as engineer and going on insane UBGL killstreaks may be over, but the Compact S is still solid. The Merc beats the gun part in versatility and the Razor does long range better, but the Compact S is one of those generic guns that at least won't get in your way. Its per shot recoil is pretty high, but its first shot recoil modifier is low, making shooting it feel consistent - not trivial, but easy to adjust to, which is in itself useful. UBGL still kills on impact but resupplies slow. Smoke has its uses. Never used the shotgun part but it does kill in one hit up close like a pump action. 3x167dmg burst mode is fairly unique. I wouldn't buy this if you aren't interested in the underbarrel options, but hey, it's a decent enough weapon without any real crippling flaws. Not like the Trac-5 S and its crazy rattle.

    NS-11C, 1000 certs:
    If you buy this with SC it goes on all characters of every faction. It's an extremely controllable gun with low recoil compared to other 143dmg carbines. It gets the excellent 0.75 ADS speed, looks nice, sounds good. Its velocity is poor but HVA is available and with the low base recoil the HVA downside is barely noticeable. VERY smooth to operate, but demands quite a bit of precision from the player to make the most of. Recoil has a left bias which is unusual, most empire specific guns either recoil right or stay fairly centered. Or rattle all over the damn place. Probably not worth 1000 certs for lower BR players with important crap to buy.

    Bandit, 1000 certs:
    The newest carbine. It shares the TR Jaguar's trait of having the best hipfire of anything that's not an SMG. Unlike the Jaguar, which loses only 2 damage tiers despite being a short range gun, the Bandit loses the 3 tiers of other bullethose carbines. 0.75 ADS speed. 625rpm/167dmg is damaging, but not uncontrollable, you will waste fewer bullets going into corpses if you let go of the trigger a split-second too late. Losing 3 damage tiers hurts but it is still moderately useable in mid-range ADS if it cannot be smartly avoided. Its short reload is rather long for the magazine size but not as bad as the GD-7f's reload, while having more damage per mag. Still, be aware that you will spend almost as much time reloading as actually shooting in high intensity fights. This gun is competently designed and fun to use but not enough of an improvement over the Mercenary with laser to be worth 1000 certs for the player on a budget. And that reload time does feel rather annoying compared to other carbines.

    GD-7F, 1000 certs:
    Hands down the most immediately damaging carbine available to the NC, but it's damage per mag/reload speed ratio is garbage. Its short reload is the worst of any NC carbine (worse than the Bandit!) and so is its damage per mag. Loses the usual 3 tiers of damage because it counts as CQC bullet hose. Uncommonly reasonable velocity for a close range carbine at 500m/s. Unless you're fooling yourself about your reaction time, you're probably also going to be plowing a couple extra bullets into every one of your kills before you notice they're dead because it fires 14 shots per second. Yes, if you do the math, this gun literally spends more time reloading than shooting (a hair over 2 seconds worth of bang in the can, 2.7 second short reload, 3 seconds long). No 0.75 ADS speed. This thing will kill a guy (or perhaps even two) quicker than any other automatic weapon but comes with zero quality of life/useability features. Your call if that's worth the price tag. Useful for situations where you expect ample reloading opportunities (babysitting a Sunderer and the enemy only sends C4 faeries in ones and twos, etc).


    And remember, time to kill in this game is so short that it's more important to use a gun that you like using and feels comfortable in your hands in 90% of combat scenarios anyway, baring some totally incompetent designs like battle rifles (less accurate on the first shot than a Bandit, lol), And hey, if a battle rifle works for you, more power to ya, as well.

    Always remember. The most important part of any game is the recreational effect on the human psyche. Take a gun that feels right, and learn how to best use it in any given scenario.
  14. Leivve


    That's completely wrong, the GD-7F has one of the best TTK IN THE GAME, not just among carbines.
  15. Pfundi

    A low TTK is a short TTK is a good TTK ;)
  16. Leivve

    Drep. I swear I know English, just a beer to many.
  17. Iridar51

    TBH it's his fault for saying "low TTK". Length of a time span can be short or long, it can't be high or low. DPS can be, but not TTK.
  18. omfgweeee

    For me GD is a trap weapon.Yes it kills fast BUT you spend huge time in realoading, your range is very limited and if you hold the triget for 0.5sec when your target is not on your crosshair your magazine gets to 0 before you kill your enemy.

    GD7F is not bad weapon but its not that awesome as many of ppls describe it. It comes with big downsides.

    Here is my video about all NC carabines (its totaly personal opinion btw!)
  19. Pfundi

    Yeah, the GD-7F is a great weapon, but as someone on YouTube once said you grow better than the weapon one day. Unfortunantely that point in my carreer hasnt arrived yet.
  20. Corezer

    Keep using the merc till you can get the bandit, pretty much a good method for all around.

    There are more specialized guns, but you will learn to grab them as you develop your playstyle.

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