NC has the Worst MAX??

Discussion in 'MAX' started by LT_Latency, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Singed

    You forgot to add CoF to your equation. At any decent range the mutilator will never get anywhere close to it's maximum potential number of kills per magazine. It takes ages to kill someone with weapons that aren't mercies because you are basically hip firing with an LMG at long range. Shotguns don't have a penalty for firing from the hip, but other weapons do. The TR Max is capable at longer ranges then the NC, but it's pretty mediocre.
    • Up x 1
  2. dragonwinds

    Let me simplify everything: NC max is too specialized in one area for its own good
  3. TorigomaSET

    Dual Macerators Vs Dual Hacksaws. Same distance, Same MAX, Macerators will win every time. Don't even get me started on the ZOE.

    Now, don't get me wrong, A NC MAX with dual Ravens can absolutely devastate on the field (my top record in 20 MBT kills in a hour). But for what the NC MAX is suppose to specialize in (close range AI), It just does not compare.
  4. Erilis

    Please post a link to such a video.
  5. RobotNinja

    Lol? You're a little behind the times aren't you? NC MAX vs. TR MAX, 10m and further away both with dual defaults TR MAX wins every time. And this was BEFORE they nerfed the crap out of NC MAX weapons.

    • Up x 1
  6. Erilis

    Relax, I just wanted to see it for myself.
  7. Ripshaft

    Worst at what? Being a max? What does that entail?

    As a general rule, if you take something complex and ask if it's best or worst, you're unable to understand the meaning of the answer... at least until we get the ability to read minds... but then we'd just be mind****ing eachother all day and it wouldnt matter.

    If you're wondering if the nc max is at any special disadvantage, the answer is no, they're arguably still overpowered, however their popular conception has changed dramatically since release. There's been a number of exceptionally minor changes to how shotguns work that have made the large noob population of nc max users and shotgun users in general become very disgruntled for a variety of reasons. The changes to shotguns were all around raising the skill floor; projectile speed was lowered and shot damage was adjusted to favor direct hits rather than glancing hits.

    People who were bad with the weapons suddenly started doing bad, and assumed OH HELL NO ITS NOT ME ITS THE SHOTGUN NERFS, and we saw a hilarious growth of people who felt that shotguns were terribly nerfed. I've even had people tell me to not use my nova because "it's useless now", while in the progress of a typical large killstreak with it.

    ... basically people come up with excuses on why they're doing poorly, and the sentiments tend to spread and become popular. People who would have never thought to blame something because they didnt think of it, or they thought people would think they're stupid and laugh at them if they blamed it will latch on to popular whine movements.

    if you've ever played dota or lol you should be well aware of this phenomena, it's no different in any other game these days.


    So to reiterate no, nothing especially wrong with nc max, plenty wrong with people in general, but alas you cant so easily fix people.... yet..... (currently pursuing Neuroscience)... BUT ONE DAY MOTHER****ERS>$@!
  8. YoXn

    Okay, I am going to make this short and sweet. I am a dedicated VS Max for FCRW. So all
    I do is max most of the the time. So what needs to happen:

    TR Max~
    - Needs damage buffs/accuracy buffs or
    ---- Change TR's ability.
    - If ability stays, ability should not effect NS weaponry

    NC Max~
    - Buff reload speed
    - Buff the Aegis shield
    ---- Give the max normal movement speed, and acceleration with the sheild or
    ---- Allow the max to keep one hand out, for offense.

    VS Max~
    - Nerf weaponry or
    ---- Nerf ZOE (Will break the ability, so just nerf weapons)
    - NS weaponry should not be effected by ZOE

    That's what I think should happen, after that tweaking can be done.
  9. Leonidas423

    I think the NC MAX is at a horrible disadvantage, and I average about 15-30 kills per revive (not life, revive), and regulary get 40 plus killstreaks. Those "exceptionally minor" changes you are talking about dramatically lower the magazine size, reload rate, forced us to get extended mags to be able to kill even a non-Kinetic 5 MAX in one clip, dramatically reduced accuracy, lowered rate of fire, debuffed damage.

    "we saw a hilarious growth of people who felt that shotguns were terribly nerfed. I've even had people tell me to not use my nova because "it's useless now", while in the progress of a typical large killstreak with it." Why are you comparing the NC MAX to your Light Assault shotgun?

    "... basically people come up with excuses on why they're doing poorly, and the sentiments tend to spread and become popular. People who would have never thought to blame something because they didnt think of it, or they thought people would think they're stupid and laugh at them if they blamed it will latch on to popular whine movements." No, I'm not doing poorly, and yes, I still complain about these changes.

    I notice how you never quoted any direct statistics, never showed us any concrete evidence, and never told us the full story.

    I am not complaining about how I can use the NC MAX, I do just fine on it. I'm complaining about how newer and less experienced players can't use the NC MAX, and how the NC MAX measures up to the other MAXs in terms of versatility, range, TTK, etc.
  10. Shadoiex

    Yeah, the fact the NC is the weakest makes no sense.

    I mean, come on! We invented the MAX!
    • Up x 2
  11. hammyhamm

    NC has bar-none the best max in close-quarters fights which also happen to be where MAXes are most used - not sure why you guys are complaining about it? You can out-damage an anti-max specific MAX from any of the other empires at the ranges they are used and you can one-shot infantry with ease - it's a great MAX, you just need to learn how to close your engagement range and avoid using it in the open (where it is weakest, to balance it's fantastic close-range performance).

    The NC max is one of the few things I have to stop and think about how I'm going to engage it as infantry, usually requiring a combination of flanking and surprise alpha damage to deal with. You have a good MAX NC, don't worry about that.
  12. hammyhamm

    I was talking about this the other day - one way to retain the quirks of the ZOE but correctly addressing the issues with the ability would be to change it to a "charged" ability, maybe having the speed/damage buff "in charge" and then a speed debuff/damage taken debuff when it is "charging".
  13. Geneaux

    NC has the worst MAX?

    Nope.avi
  14. Ruvan

    It's the worst for people that don't understand how to use it properly. Same as TR/NC MAX is the worst for people that can't use it effectively. In an asymmetrically balanced game you have to understand what the advantages and disadvantages of your tools are in order to use them to their maximum potential. Don't try and hammer a square peg into a round hole.

    NC MAX units do extreme damage in close quarters combat. However, they have limited magazine size and limited range. Hence, they are:

    - Great at corner camping when defending a building.
    - Great at offense when conditions are cramped (e.g. towers above the ground floor).
    - Bad at offense when opponents are far away/spread out.
    - Less good when there is a constant flow of enemy infantry. Top tip: fire one arm at once until it reloads, then fire the other arm until it reloads, repeat. You'll still have tons of killing power in close quarters and you won't have huge downtime that allows enemy infantry/MAXes to easily kill you.

    If you're in a situation where NC MAXes aren't ideal, i.e. when opponents are spread out or far away, you need to put some thought in to how to get around this advantage. For example, if you're advancing in to a large room with lots of enemies spread out and quite far away, just clear near the entrance, where you're most powerful, then let friendly Heavy Assault advance in to the room. You could even cover them with your shield or draw fire away from, especially if you have a pocket Engineer nearby.

    Charge is a very effective tool for getting into your ideal range, however, remember that unless you are sure you can kill all opponents without dying, you're going to have to get out again as well.
  15. hansgrosse

    First, a rant!

    I hate shotguns in this game. Always have, and always will. I just don't think they're any fun to use, and the MAX variants are no exception. Know what I LOVE though? The TR MAX. MAXing is almost all I do on my TR alt anymore. It's just so amazingly fun ripping away with dual heavy cyclers.

    I'd pull my NC MAX just as often if I could just get a pair of Gauss HMG's to replace the damned scats. I don't need Mercies or Blueshifts or anything special like that; I just want something that works like the other factions' default MAX AI weapons, maybe with a slightly lower RoF and slightly higher damage per shot to add that faction flavor.

    *EDIT*- Of course, giving the NC MAX a weapon that works like the others' defaults without giving anything back to them in return would be silly, so in exchange we can give the VS and TR MAXes shotgun arms roughly equivalent to the NCM1 Scattercannon. Everybody wins! Everybody happy!




    Now, as far as the NC MAX shotguns themselves are concerned, they seem to work just fine at shotgun ranges. If any tweaks are to be made, I'd say cut down the reload times by a bit and they'll be in a good place.
  16. RobotNinja

    No problem. Yeah, NC MAXes are good at close quarters...VERY, VERY, ***VERY*** CLOSE QUARTERS as long as you define close quarters as 5 meters or less. :p

    Out of all three faction MAX units it's probably the most situational of all three.
  17. Mxiter

    If NC max is sick, mattocks are its medicine.
  18. toxs

    NC max could be better!
  19. Verenz

    NC MAX shotguns are only bad in the sense that the mags are too small, the small CQC TTK advantage is about equivalent to the ranged power of all non blueshift weapons (seriously blueshifts man). However it is hard to ignore 20 scatcannon rounds versus 180 heavy cycler rounds, if NC had bigger mags the AI would be fine.

    AV, fractures need more spread when fired on the move, ravens need less recoil when fired (keep the move bob though), comets are stupid OP, ZOE shouldn't affect AV, falcons need velocity, pounders need a miracle.
  20. Mxiter

    I would like to see this video with Aegis while reloading.