[NC] Carnage BR Assault Rifle - Discussion.

Here's some food for though. Factoring straight up theoretical DPS/TTK, the Carnage has the second best of the NC assault rifles at close range, and the best at min damage range (65m)

The GR-22's Max damage is 143 @ 10m and 112 @ 65m, and skipping over 125, which means it drops two STK thresholds in it's damage drop ranges instead of one. That means from 1-10m it's a 7 shot kill, from 11-40m it's an 8 shot, and from 41m onward it's a 9 shot.

The carnage's min and max damage are on adjacent thresholds, 143 and 125 so the carnage will be a 7 shot up to 10m, and from 11 to the end of the bullet's path it's an 8 shot kill.

What this basically means is that if you can be reasonably accurate with the carnage BR it will perform better than the GR-22 at mid-range, providing an increase in function for the minor sacrifice at close range.

I initially had the GR-22 on my first server, and when I restarted to play with friends I picked up the Carnage, and even with the balanced recoil, with the appropriate attachments (Adv. Grip, compensator) it far and away exceeds my performance expectations as far as accuracy is concerned, even more so than the GR-22, despite the slightly lower velocity. And jumping back and forth between severs I definitely seem to have an easier time making the kills toward the back end of mid-range on the carnage. I find in particular I tend to get more headshots with it.

So comparing my two loadouts, The carnage definitely seems to provide more versitility without as significant of a damage drop, as well as the attachments to compensate for it's shorcomings in being labeled a shortrange weapon, while still able to function as the GD's little brother. While the GD is an absolute BEAST at close range fights especially with SPA, and can be pushed into ranged engagements by it's user, and the directional recoil is the boon that lets you do so.

So my 2 certs: GD-22 if you want to tear it up in a bio-lab, Carnage BR if you want a more solid mid-game.

Please don't perpetuate the directional/balanced recoil myth in the same exact thread I provide the correct information. The Carnage is hard to control because its horizontal recoil stats are among the highest in the game, not because its vertical recoil pulls straight up.

Other than that, I agree the Carnage is an okay option for moving between close and midrange; by the time you get near minimum damage range, however, the NS-11 and Gauss are both going to be hitting things much more reliably. Calulating TTK at minimum damage distance assuming 100% accuracy is misleading.

i have the carnage somehow it feels way to ez to kill inifitry with, is this what it feels like to play with tr weapons in HA class? its just medic specific and i feel naked around tanks
love this gun.

I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about or what myth your referring to. I'm not talking about the values or how much they pull, or to what degree, only the fact that if it predominantly pulls in one direction, like the GD-22, the player's input and compensation skill has a direct bearing on the gun being on target and resulting shot spread, which is why some people prefer them, becasue they feel they have more control over the gun.

I don't see how that contradicts anything you said or perpetuates myths.

As for TTK calculations, is there really harm there? TTK is theoretical in and of itself assuming 100% accuracy. That's the nature of it. Nobody realisitcally expects to get those numbers, it's just a loose idea of potential performance to give an extremely generalized idea of how the weapon operates.

Weapons with directional recoil are no more inherently accurate than weapons with vertical recoil. The degree to which they jitter back and forth depends on horizontal recoil, which is applied separately to each shot. Even if you pull a GR-22 perfectly against its recoil, it will be less accurate than, say, a T1 Cycler because the latter has less side-to-side shake. You might feel like you're firing more accurately, but test it and you'll see that you're not. LevelCap in particular loves to talk about this because it's true in Battlefield 3 -- but it's not true in Planetside 2.

It's also not generally the case that guns with directional recoil have less side-to-side shake than guns with balanced recoil. 80% or 90% of the time it will be the same, making the weapon with straight-vertical recoil easier to use and equally accurate. The Carnage BR happens to be less accurate inherently than the GR-22, but it's a pretty rare case of that happening.

Well... doing that leads you to conclude the Carnage BR is the quickest ranged killer in the NC Arsenal, where in reality the Gauss Rifle, Gauss S and Reaper DMR will all noticeably outperform it if you go out in the field and actually shoot people. It's clearly not actually going to hurt anyone to say otherwise (unless they go off and waste $7 thinking they're buying a long-range weapon), but why not try to calculate something closer to what you care about learning?

Interesting. I know what you mean about LevelCap's info, some of his suggestions about the game make me wonder if we're playing the same game. I'll have to mess with more guns and look into that. My main experience with it has been my LMGs, since I seem to be far my on target in terms of getting hit registers in quicker succession with the Anchor than I have been with the SAW and EM6 (crowd favorite). Always felt that was due to the recoil being more manually controllable. But I guess taking that into account they could just have better tolerences.

I figured showing the DPS/TTK difference would highlight the STK difference for anyone that doesn't follow that. Like the fact the Carnage has less of a STK drops at midrange is one of the reasons I went for it, because it was a close range weapon that's shot didn't weaken as significantly with range, i thought I had stressed that but I guess not as blatently as I could have. I'm just used to the infi forums, and well, that's pretty much an audience involving production of "No Exit" at times, and no matter what numbers and calculations you put up with velocity, drop, refire, etc., most player's eyes simply glaze over, and only ever use the Longshot reguardless because it has bigger raw numbers or because someone flat out told them to, or find some way to make the thread about how bad they think the cloak is, so I guess at this point I just tend to stick to broad strokes. But I'm not bitter(yesIam)

Though speaking of long range and the Reaper DMR, how's that stack up? The Reaper's got a better hit, which being a infi most of the time, I like, but the velocity looks like it might be problematic.

Reaper is my favorite gun in the medic class by far. It doesn't feel like a sidegrade to the default Gauss... it feels like a straight upgrade, though it's more like a gun you'd find in STALKER than CS. Difficult and powerful.

If I could only have one gun for the medic the Reaper would be it, no question. Then again I always ADS and I tend to do a lot of long sneaky flanks and long-range ambushes so perhaps that makes me biased.

Close range I switch to LA and shotgun. If you are rezzing the death toll in close fights tends to be so elevated you don't have much time to fight anyway.

Oh god, love STALKER, broke my heart when the sequal was cancelled. Close range I cover with my pistol. It's just reflex at this point after so much infiltrator. That's actually why I'm looking into something longer range now, because even when I use the GD or the Carnage I always reflexively pull the rebel or mag and go for the headshots at close, while my brain is screaming "You have a hip-fire gun you idiot!?" So at this point I figure if it works why fight it? And get something that can rock it at range, and slug shotty isn't doing it for me anymore.

Hmm how do you find the Rebel vs. Mag?

The Reaper will work for you but it's not LONG long-range.... the exception is carefully lining up 3x headshots on stationary targets. I like the LX (chevrons) to judge bullet drop. Anyway it'd be fun to see how you do as an Infil player, check it out and report back

I picked up the Carnage BR as well, it is certainly better than the Gauss default but I do miss the DMR's monstrous recoil! Seems pretty middle of the road, honestly.... but it is a good middle at least! Would have been fun to have a true semi-auto BR.

I used the DMR in beta and loved it (back when it had Soft Point ammo for some reason...). Fantastic stopping power at range and great accuracy on the first several shots, strong but easy (straight-up) recoil. At long long range it becomes a slightly weaker battle rifle but it doesn't trade off the ability to defend yourself at anything closer than plinking range. I haven't given it any love since launch but it came in the Infantry starter bundle that I got, so now that flinch has been fixed I'll probably cert it up.