NC +.000001% Damage - "Use Your Advantage"

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Spartan 117, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. Jonesitronator

    I play all three factions and do just as good in the NC as I do in the other two. I actually prefer the NC as infantry just because the weapons sound and feel more realistic.
    • Up x 1
  2. ShadowReaper500

    I've really touched a nerve here haven't I.

    Anyway I won't reward you with more of what you call "childish posts". Apparently having an opinion and trying not to be biased is something that is really bad. I understand your point of view and I respect it. I consider it wrong and not thought through but I still respect it.

    I don't think either of us will listen to the other, even if we present points that makes sense or not. It is my belief that the balance is fine and yours that it is not. You are asking for tweaking, I'm asking for patience. It's only been a week.
  3. Tobax

    Everyone that has seen the numbers knows that while NC do more damage with a single bullet they have the worst TTK for their infantry weapons so don't know why we need sooo many topics arguing about it, however its a fraction of a second difference and shorter than your reaction time so you need to get over it (yes I play NC).
  4. THe fiend

    I have to say after playing NC on the AU Briggs for sometime and having fun but having issues at times with 1 on 1 duels.

    I jumped on the US servers with a shocking ping to try the other factions........ Holy ****e is all I can say, they leave the NC for dust... I was chewing people up all night

    max shotgun vs assult cannon...... yeah would trade my shotty any day of the week for any of the other factions weapons.

    Wishing I had picked another faction for sure!
  5. Figment

    Not really. I always make long posts and always am blunt and I'm not going to hide annoyances with your condescending, dismissive tone towards others.

    Interesting point of view and interesting definition of "respect for other people's opinion".

    This is what you call "trying not to be biased"? :confused: Bullying and ridiculing people with another opinion than yours by calling them whiners, skilless and all kinds of other derogatory insinuations by default without even considering the possibility they may be right? Because you haven't in any single post and you've made derogatory comments in every single one about what you think of players with a different opinion. Worse, you're dismissing them without ever producing a single shread of evidence of your own - even when making other claims yourself.

    You made a claim about ranged accuracy being worse for TR, yet I produced a link to a post drawing from game stats where TTKs and accuracies and damage tables have been shown at many ranges and where NC underperform with most weapons. Sometimes slightly, sometimes significantly. I don't mind slightly as long as you get good stuff elsewhere to compensate. NC don't. VS do.

    Time passing is completely irrelevant on this subject. Issues become clear in a matter of hours if you pay attention to it, but certainly after a week when certain empires consistently are able to dominate fights in both attack and defense with pretty even pop. At that point there may be a moment in which you realise that losing 1 vs 1 more often on an empire wide scale may not be down to worse play.

    If you're not good with a weapon after a week, (well, after an hour really), you're never going to get the hang of it. Fact of the matter is, TR and VS hipfire is a whole lot easier and having to ironsight at melee range to score hits just doesn't cut it. (Note that VS and TR sniper rifles can hipfire spam as shotguns at melee range).
  6. Pax Empyrean

    The trick to getting the most out of NC weapons is to capitalize on how front loaded their damage is. With higher damage per bullet but lower damage over time, you start with a damage advantage that diminishes the longer you are exposed and taking fire. NC guns are worse in a fight where you and your opponent are standing out in the open and spraying at each other, but they are superior when you can pop up from behind cover to fire a short burst and then crouch back down. It takes fewer NC players to drop an enemy quickly than it does with players of the other factions.

    I think that NC weapons aren't quite as good as those of the other factions, but they do have their advantages that can be exploited.
  7. Zoridium JackL

    you made the claim that a state of balanced exists, prove it or stop spewing your bulls*** logic, also your choice of faction isn't unlucky, whether a faction is OP or UP or neither isn't luck, it's something that is 100% controlled by the devs. no LUCK about it.

    anyway, that's not what you meant when you initially said unlucky and you know it, you were implying that he was the problem and that there was no statistical disadvantage faced by the NC, yet if you knew anything about it you'd know there are inherent disadvantages of slower and heavier weapons and that there have been tests showing otherwise (which is still irrelevant because common sense tells you that there are discrepancies) stop trying to weasel your way out of your stupid assumption and be a man and admit you were being an ***.
  8. rumblepit

    nc lmg hits for 200, tr lmg hits for 167,, nc carbine hits for 167 tr carbine hits for 143. do you see a pattern ?
  9. Zoridium JackL

    that fraction of a second difference is the problem, the inherent disadvantages of slower heavier weapons (such as slow reloads, higher penalty for a missed shot, lower damage over time) makes that a big problem, your opponent can drop a couple shots and still match your TTK, but if you drop a shot you're a fair way beyond them, in a fair world nobody would miss, but in practice your average player misses quite a bit, then there are those those that re-aquire after each shot, all these things have a significantly higher impact on the TTK while they have a significantly lower impact on the higher speed weapons TTK.
  10. Zoridium JackL

    pray do tell me how fast they fire, i see another pattern.
  11. Zoridium JackL

    also I agree with this, they aren't quite as good but that doesn't mean they can't be used effectively at all, which is why i think there is so much controversy about it, people see someone using it effectively so they assume it's fine, but in most situations you encounter it's at it's slight disadvantage
  12. rumblepit

    First bullet fired:
    NC - Recoil: 0 - Time:0 - Damage: 169
    TR - Recoil: 0 - Time:0 - Damage: 143

    Second bullet fired:
    NC - Recoil: 0.4 - Time: 0.0962 - Damage: 338
    TR - Recoil: 0.307 - Time: 0.0823 - Damage: 286

    Third bullet fired:
    NC - Recoil: 0.8 - Time: 0.192 - Damage: 507
    TR - Recoil: 0.614 - Time: 0.164 - Damage: 429

    Both shooters will begin to adjust for their recoil somewhere in here, between the third and fourth shot fired.

    Fourth bullet fired:
    NC - Recoil: 1.2 - Time: 0.288 - Damage: 676
    TR - Recoil: 0.921 - Time: 0.247 - Damage: 572

    Every three bullets:
    NC - Recoil: 0.8 - Time: 0.192 - Damage: 507
    TR - Recoil: 0.614 - Time: 0.164 - Damage: 429
    So, every fourth shot both players will be able to change how, or what they're doing to compensate for their recoil.

    by the time nc or tr has to compensate for anything the fight is over and the ttks are almost identical. you would kill with 5 shots and tr would kill with 7. nc has the faster ttk, not by much but you do the math.

    as for the recoil. look at the numbers, on almost every class of weapon nc are 1 point higher in recoil. tr lmg .4 , nc lmg .5, tr carbine .2 i think an nc carbine is .3. a reduction would give you the same recoil as tr giving the nc a advantage.

    you do more damage per shot, from the in game data, you have the faster ttk,which is almost identical ,and you have 1 point more in recoil than tr . sounds balanced to me. or dam close to it. lol or am i wrong?


    there is a pattern with recoil:) 1 point higher than tr on every weapon, because you do more damage. play tr if you like the weapons so much.
  13. rumblepit


    double post :(
  14. Gungan

    Except you are biased. Claiming you're not is either blatant lies, or blissful ignorance on your part.
    • Up x 1
  15. Yukichan

    it means that nanoweave 1 for 1 cert point makes the saw take 6 shots instead of 5 and the TR still at 7.

    i don't think 167 is right for the TR LMG cause that would make their 7 shot weapons do enough for kills at 6.
  16. exLupo

    Yea, he should have said 143 for the baseline. There is a 167 (TMG) but NC have mostly 167 and a 143 as well.
    SAW 200
    Carv 143
    Orion 143

    It's interesting, looking at the newest info from the dump analysis. Damage falls off in ranks and based on weapon and empire. A rank is like 167 to 143. Two would be 167 to 125. Three 167 to 112. All start at 10m. NC get +10m on minimum damage range. HV ammo increases another 10m and long range weapons (ex: DMR) give another 10m. TR/NC default range is 10-65m with 1 rank of loss for. VS range is 10-115 and 2 ranks of loss. Carbines are +1 rank loss over their range.

    ex: VS Carbine, at 10m, is 7stk (143 damage) and 125m is 10stk (100 damage).

    According to the list, the SAW also gets a +10 range (10-85m) and it (and the S) have the fastest LMG velocities for the NC. Guess it's the long-range variant?
  17. Figment

    The SAW long range? o_O'

    Well I heard (haven't been able to verify aside from the EM-1) that the other Heavy Assault weapons are mostly better for shorter ranges as they are supposed to be less accurate than the SAW. So could be. I don't perceive the SAW to be anything more than lucky at distances over 50m, hardly realistic choice for distances over 40m, even already sub-par (with regards to other infantry weapons) at about 30m. 85m should probably be taken with a grain of salt because you have to shoot one shot at a time by then to hit anything.

    Wouldn't ever recommend hipfire with the SAW either until they're stationary at 2m range.



    Where can that dump analysis be found btw?
  18. exLupo

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&gid=2

    And, yea, I was surprised to see the SAW with an 85 far end. It does get HV and a 6x tho so maybe not as surprising. Among the NC LMGs, the SAW has the greatest vertical recoil, ADS base (except stationary standing) and CoF per-shot bloom. Tho, also the lowest RoF so the least impacted by any of that.

    Regarding hipfire, that's just a LMG thing. Even the best are meh (tho I haven't seen with an adv laser). All of them, ADS, are laser beams when compared to AR/Carbine.
  19. RobotNinja

    I've playtested all three empires, all classes, vehicles and a number of additional weapon sidegrades. If you think the NC's weapon damage is insignificant then you obviously haven't played AGAINST the NC. A NC HA who knows how to actually aim his weapon and compensate for recoil will ruin anyone's day.
    • Up x 1
  20. Sebyos

    Hahaha someone isn't playing NC obviously.