NC +.000001% Damage - "Use Your Advantage"

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Spartan 117, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. Copasetic

    What's that going to prove, that some people have better aim than others?
  2. Sebyos

    As a level 20 medic who plays mostly long range since I stay behind my guys ready to heal while providing cover fire, I find that the longer the range the more amplified our problem is. I got a Gauss Rifle S with full attachments and I find it pretty frustrating to fire single shots from long range because even 2 shot burst end up with the second shot 2 meters over their head while other factions can go full auto and snipe my *** with anything including SMGs and LMGs.

    To be honest the damage boost we get is about 20% more, we often got close to twice the recoil of VS and half the RoF of TR I don't call that balance.

    Of course there will be people saying l2p and it is true. Obviously, I did get much better on my character and I am now killing people much more easily, but when I beat them I out skill them or get lucky, because an equally skilled opponent playing the other faction would destroy me.
  3. Hoppy17

    Ah, apologies. I did not see that nor mean to type that. I probably meant imperfect system. I'm a bit tired atm.


    Never claimed to be a representative of anyone. You, however, said that I assumed an entire empire utilizes less skill, so I felt to make it a point that while I claimed you were either unlucky or unskilled, I do not claim ALL of NC is unlucky or unskilled.

    And I don't know what you mean with the whining thing. I never claimed only NC whined, so not everyone does. I think that train of thought was rather pointless. Very pointless.
  4. Figment

    Yeah, that'd even if you post the same weapon categories on different empires and show NC accuracy would be 20% lower (to make a ludicrous exageration), even then people would say "well... yes, but you hit harder per shot", without ever testing for themselves what the results of that accuracy is and we'd be full circle again.
  5. Copasetic

    This is why I've given up trying to talk about balance on the forums. Everyone just pulls numbers out of their ***, then everyone who wants to believe their guns are underpowered believes those numbers because it's what they want to hear. This applies to all 3 empires incidentally.

    About your recoil problem, try pulling your mouse down a little while you're shooting. You'll find the recoil disappears. If someone on the other faction is sniping you at long range with no recoil it's because he's compensating for it while you're not.
  6. Figment

    That would mean something else entirely indeed. ;) Apologies accepted. However, if it's an imperfect system, you must admit there's potential for flawed balance?

    Because I am actually assuming that since every empire is different due to said imperfect system, there's a chance that slight imbalances can have a butterfly effect. Which IMO is a minor assumption, since we've seen that sort of imbalance problems in decades of FPS games, and certainly over the past decade of PS1.

    No but you insinuate it because you insinuate this as likely (rather than potential) cause for anyone complaining, to the point you put severe question marks with any alternative reasoning (while not backing the reasoning for this questioning up). I mean you're entitled to question, but there has to be cause to do so.

    I also find it funny when people question people like AzK about their skills (which seems to be a bit of a kneejerk-default reaction: question the messenger at all times even when they've proven themselves), if we're talking someone who is always at the top of leaderboards and known for having very high accuracy and good cone of fire control (well to anyone from PS1 NC Werner that is) and also being top leaderboard in PS2 for NC. >.>

    Well I used quotation marks there, mostly to indicate the general attitude trend of particularly TR posting here. I've noticed VS tend to have a few more reservations and more supportive attitude than TR regarding NC balance. I think that's also somewhat indicative.
  7. Tobias

    Gauss SAW kills people in 4 shots. You can literally count them. BANGBANGBANGBANG and you're dead before you've had time to react. Any NC who manages to lose in a firefight has only themselves to blame.
    • Up x 2
  8. Sturmhardt

    They should not BUFF the NC, they should make the other empires slightly weaker. TTK is low enough as it is...
  9. ShadowReaper500

    There is no such thing in Planetside that says "This is how it should be". No matter what situation you are in you have the means to deal with it. If you are having trouble with a TR HA then think "What can't he do?". The answer is shoot at longer distances. If you run in close on a TR HA you are at a disadvantage because all TR work better at shorter ranges but we have a harder time at longer range. If I see enemies at longer ranges and I don't have a gun equiped to deal with that, I don't engage.

    And ofcourse engies and medics can drop an HA. The game is not made to be MAX > HA > LA > Medic > Engineer > Infiltraitor or VS > TR > NC or whatever order you want to put it in!
    It is made so that no matter what class you are you can kill everyone.

    Again you are saying that the TR have an advantage over the NC. We don't. The game is almost balanced to perfection. Why are you loosing 2 maps? The gun of 1 HA does not decide the outcome of a battle of a continent. NC I believe have, at least on the server I'm on(Miller), less players atm and it is numbers and skill that decide who wins the continent. Not the guns of infantry. In my opinion at
    least.

    If you are having trouble dealing with a situation then try a different approach and don't say that the opposing player is OP because he can kill you faster.

    One last point. The game has been out a week. There has not been enough time to say that a balance fix is needed. People are still coming in, learning how to play the game and figuring out what they prefer playing as.
  10. Aghar30

    a poor workman blames his tools.
    • Up x 2
  11. Hoppy17

    I do not discredit the idea that the nerfs/buffs for NC might cause them to be at a disadvantage against the other two factions. I just see so many threads and posts talking about "personal experience" like it's credible evidence, and that makes me feel like there is no solid proof for the findings that the nerfs are the issue. I rather see number crunching like what was going on earlier. Quantitative date like I asked for.

    I stated you were either unlucky or unskilled, since both categories successfully encompasses all possible variables. The reasoning for my questioning is to make sure we are properly addressing the correct issue, instead of jumping on one variable without looking at the others. A little critical thinking never hurt.

    I guess I see what you mean when TR seem to question NC and put labels on them more often than VS. Might be because VS is less populated, or skilled enough to not care what buffs NC receive, or just focus on fighting TR so NC doesn't really matter to them. But whatever the reason behind it, I can agree with you there.
  12. Figment

    Anekdotes aren't evidence, they are however indicators. I mean is it possible to shoot 20 people in a row with NC guns? Yes. Is it likely? Not really. So an anekdote where you have such a string (which might actually be down to luck too) should not indicate that "it is fine" either.

    When the quantity of anekdotes from one group starts to mount, then there's reason for seeing if there's actually a problem. That might not be found directly in statistics, though I've seen several posts using tests, data extracted from the game and statistics that suggest NC TTKs are in the entire spectrum significantly longer, and will even escalate at range. Which would point to a severe discrepency IMO. Of course it's a bit bad form to require every random to provide that sort of evidence (time and resources may not be available) and till then dismiss every experience they have had.

    Instead, it may be better to have it tested yourself and see if that feel is there, even if you can't prove it directly.

    IMO a 0.1-0.15 difference in TTK (advantage to one side) means a lot with 50-300 engagements an hour per player. Because where one falls, it starts adding up in group play as group leverage increases.

    I havn't checked, but if you said "were", not "might be", then people read your questioning as a (premature - and probably somewhat insulting) conclusion rather than a validating questioning.

    I do understand what you're going for, but if it was just me I wouldn't have jumped to that conclusion. It's a complaint I hear from my entire outfit and several befriended outfits, as well as NC that went TR or VS and long term TR and VS I've played with. They all feel TR weapons are easiest to handle and NC weapons pretty much junk.

    At that point, even if there's theoretical balance, there's issues that might infer problems for the game itself on the longterm as well (regarding retention rates). If people's fave empire (third of the populace) is felt as junk, it'll lose more players and cause pop imbalances, which could give rise to a vicious circle of 'fourth empire' and quiters.
  13. Figment

    A stupid workman uses blunt tools.
  14. MrK

    Prove? Nothing.
    Showing a trend, perhaps. Just a trend. If no trend get out of the stats, that will be pointless indeed, but if we don't try, we don't know.

    EDIT : just to be clear, I'm still very very doubtfull of this whole "NC are UP" thing. I'm pretty sure there's a bit more work to be done to keep hitting consistently with NC weapons, but not enough to make them UP.

    What I'd gladly see, though, is to have both TR and VS recoil/CoF patterns being brought on par with current NC ones, and NC patterns being made even slightly more difficult. That'd resolve most of the "too low TTK" whines and hopefully bring a little more skill in the game.
  15. Figment

    NC are worse at range than TR. So you're saying NC should not engage TR HAs at all? And if you have short range weapons, you should still not engage TR at short range?

    Uhm... yeah. Good thing the game doesn't force short range engagements like in CCs, right?

    The same stories of NC performing worse come from pretty much every server... How do you explain that?

    Why do you assume they haven't tried something else and are dumb? Why is the idea that there might be a balance imperfection an absolute impossibility to you?

    So you're saying the NC still need to learn to play, while the TR and VS don't or need to learn less? Interesting insight.
  16. ShadowReaper500

    I don't say people are dumb but people who respond with quotes like that are dumb.

    Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. Look at TTK rates of TR weapons at long ranges and you will probably retract that.
    The game doesn't force you to go short range come on. Even if it was you would still have the means to get the advantage or at least be equal. It's called different guns. Try taking a base with a sniper-rifle and you'll see how hard that can be.

    The game has been, and I cannot say this enough, out for a week. You can't expect the game's populations to balance out perfectly in that short amount of time. In Beta, when it was balanced(remember that before you start yelling at me for compairing it to beta), this would happen all the time. It's never just 1 deciding factor that decides the outcome of a continent battle. Infantry is the bases of everything yes but you can't win a continent with just infantry.

    An example. From all server there are complaints about the AA but the AA is completly fine as it is. All that is required is teamwork to fix it, even though it's not broken.

    Because I know that I rage sometimes when I die. Everyone tries to find a reason for why they lost and "He's OP!" is the most usuall. And again the game has been out for a week. Most people who complain are people who just got in, or sometimes people who have no idea of what they are talking about, and they try the same thing over and over again. I know this because that's what I did so many times over when I started playing and I still see people doing it.

    The balance, for the record, is pretty good and it is close to perfection in my view. I'm not saying that there is an impossiblility of it but I know from experience that there are so many things people don't think about when stating it. The balance in the game is currently at it's best, not 1v1 but in large scale which is what matters in Planetside 2.

    ... That makes no sense??


    The balance is not the issue here. The issue is people rageing because they die and blaming everyone and everything but themselves. I used to do that too.
  17. SolLeks

    I love using my N-11A, oh w8, thats a nanite system gun for all factions =(
  18. Figment

    You mean these?
    http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/tr-still-overpowered-nc-is-fine-vs.52154/

    Longer TTKs are worse, you knew that, right? NC have no ranges where they excell. TR have many.

    You've not actually played this game, have you?

    Blablabla. Populace intelligence spreads evenly by default. Pops have been almost 33% many times over, at which point NC fail. NC only win at higher pop densities.

    And yet those complaints are FROM ALL SIDES. Not from ONE FACTION. Wow, that you didn't understand that argument and come up with an example of what would be the case if it WAS balanced between empires (as I defined before as everyone everywhere complaining equally) is baffling. And where do you get the silly notion that people have to use AA independently but air can be lonewolfing? How about air also needs to work together then to kill AA and other units?

    Oh wait, selfish argumentation alert.

    Of course the only people who would say "OP" are those that rage at every death. There's no possibility of it actually being OP. Right? Don't act so hypocritical.

    Evidence?

    Nor do you. You claim people must be whining and should stop doing so and l2p. Since only NC whine, apparently only NC need to l2p. Which is weird, since in large populaces players distribute evenly by default.

    You don't seem to understand that if only one side whines, there's apparently issues.

    Oh takes one to know one? Good thing I'm nothing like you then and only complain when there's actually a reason to complain.

    You know, those people exist too.

    We're not all as childish as you are, you know.

    EDIT: For the record, we're asking for minor tweaks - really minor tweaks - to be a bit more on par. Your type of poster always makes it seem as if doomsday is coming at any next iteration of balance changes. Probably you'd have said the same thing with any other balance as well. "Oh it's so perfect, there couldn't possibly be a problem you can't live with". Damn, I knew TR got goggles, didn't know they painted them pink these days instead of red.
  19. Davinel

    Actually as a VS I found myself using NC-like weapons. Pulsar-c, flake. Higher damage, higher recoil, COF and lower rof. Like them. But yeah, they are somewhat harder to use, then default versions.
  20. DiabloMuerto

    Haven't played enough of all the factions to really weigh in but I can say that the NC LMG and the TR LMG are certainly a bit off. As stated here the damage is negligible but the accuracy difference is night and day, the TR LMG even on full auto has a way tight bullet spread, much easier to be accurate at range even on full auto. Don't get me wrong I do fine as NC I know how to control my weapon but I'd just do even better with the TR gun as the difference is easily noticed and in terms of game play kind of significant.

    Not sure I'd go so far as to say NC is underpowered or any of that stuff people are spouting but the weapons balance could use some tweaking in some cases.