[Suggestion] NanoWeave & The New Player

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Nighda Venesis, Sep 2, 2021.

  1. Nighda Venesis

    The following is a Higby essay on the leaked changes to NanoWeave Armor surfaced from the PS4 _Integration update and Wrel's comment left on ApolloPS2's YouTube video "THE DEVS DID WHAT?! Discussing Planetside 2's *PRESUMED* Nerf to Nanoweave (see pinned comment)" (), which is pasted followingly, with the most important sections highlighted, and how these changes do not align with the intended Goal:

    I thought that NanoWeave was going to be nerfed all the way back in February or so when I started thinking about this update in particular, and it's added to the reasons why I've been looking forward to this update so much, so when I read in the New Player Experience Progress article that it was receiving a nerf, I was quite ecstatic.

    To start off regarding the recent events, and I mean this with no disrespect, I initially thought that the movement speed penalty was originally a joke from reddit that had been blown out of proportion and perpetuated by Wrel scapegoat enthusiasts or something, but the more time went on and I kept seeing it everywhere, the more I became worried that this may actually be real, so I dug and found out about the accidental PS4 leaks and comment on Apollo's video, and that these were the source of this uproar, and I too was upset.

    It is unfortunate that the team's work got leaked to PS4, but this may actually be a blessing in disguise allowing for some early criticism, although some of it may not be as relevant given that some things may intertwine with changes in other fields which either haven't been discovered, leaked, or even implemented yet at all, and I will be as constructive as I can be regarding this topic in particular given the information that I have managed to find keeping in mind that this was a leak, therefore unfinished, therefore subject to complete reevaluation and change.

    Now, into the meat of things: the leaked changes as I understand them are that NanoWeave now provides a 10% global movement speed decrease (as I understand it everything is modified from the base), and that none of the resistances will apply to any Heavy Assault abilities. I will now talk about these and how I think they relate to the Goal Wrel mentioned, which, to put into other words as I understand it, is to invert NanoWeave from being the meta choice to becoming a safety net for new players. I believe that both of these changes do not untangle the root of the issue surrounding NanoWeave, and are instead a form of cover up to make this Suit Slot option seem like it has a place in the game with this form, and may not actually be beneficial for new players at all, in essence meaning that the Goal was not reached. I do not intend to say that creating a cover up is your intention, just that these changes reflect one more than your intention.

    The reason why is because new players should be learning the game as it should be, not how something that shouldn't be in the game in the first place is changing it for them, and for the worse; the reality is that even if skill ceiling players stop using NanoWeave, new players will be farmed regardless as NanoWeave doesn't, and shouldn't in its current or leaked form apply to headshots, and actually makes being hit overall, to the body and head, easier as they move slower. If you're on the skill floor, you're on the skill floor, and you have the ability to climb the steps, and you should be proud of the progress you've made. That's how it should be; no band aid for skill creates a more enjoyable experience for everyone. Asymmetry is not a bad thing to have in a game; it's unavoidable in this one especially and healthy for it in the right places and amounts, but fundamental things such as effective HitPoints have no place to be asymmetric within the same type of arms division (infantry to infantry direct damage, terrene to terrene, aerial to aerial). The asymmetry between veterans and new players should be related to skill and playstyle, not about a certain meta option like this.

    Additionally, regarding shuffling: the main issue with shuffling is the way this game's hitboxes interact with models, and latency may also contribute to this issue a lot, but it may not be the cause of it. Hitboxes often end up misaligned with models in ways they shouldn't be, and this is most easily seen in certain situations when fighting Anti Infantry MANA Turrets. Sometimes, maybe at certain distances, you will be aiming at an Engineer's head perfectly, and it will instead hit the shield of the turret off to one side or below. I believe this is particularly prevalent when turrets are aiming down and to the side, say on top of a stairway in an L building with large stairs (the one often connected to the banana building through two small bridges and overhead bars).

    On a side note, the leaked change also puts NanoWeave in the awkward position that it becomes the first Suit Slot option with a downside other than "I'm not using something else instead that is more suited for the situation I just got myself into." It's strange to me and another inconsistency that can be avoided.

    I do not believe NanoWeave should be removed. I believe it has a place in this game, just not in the form it has most notably taken on for the entire lifespan of this game, and that is, in some way more HitPoints against other infantry units. I would like to propose a different Goal for NanoWeave as well as some inspiration for implementation:
    • NanoWeave Armor
      • Goal
        For NanoWeave to become a consistent, nontoxic viable option that provides protection against nonexplosive vehicle damage for all players.
      • Execution
        Remove Small Arms Resistance, include all resistances relating to nonexplosive damage from vehicles at 25%, add resistance to collisions so it's more difficult to be run over, apply resistance to headshots and Heavy Assault abilities as well.
      • Peripheral
        Remove headshot multipliers on vehicle guns.
    And since we're at it, here are some other suggestions:
    • Flak Armor
      • Goal
        To become the explosive counterpart to NanoWeave Armor as per its suggested Goal above.
      • Execution
        50% resistance to all indirect damage (not direct damage). This would mean still being OHKed through being stuck by a sticky grenade, but not otherwise, being OHKed through a direct hit from a Decimator, and being OHKed by an L100 Python HESH on direct hit, not so in the case for its AP and HEAT variants, for a few examples.
    • Kinetic Armor
      • Same as NanoWeave
    • Ordnance Armor
      • Same as Flak Armor
    I also think Composite Armor for vehicles should also move to some form of resistance rather than just a flat out HitPoint increase as well like old NanoWeave was.

    Hopefully this outlines my general concerns and views properly, and I hope at least something could be learned from this giant block of text for at least someone, and hopefully for people on the dev team.

    If you read through this monster, you deserve many cookies with a big glass of milk.

    Thank you for reading and considering.
    • Up x 1
  2. Demigan

    I dislike the way they changed it and many others do as well. But there is a big problem there, as over the years I've read about 6 different idea's on how to change nanoweave. Which should the devs have chosen?

    As much as I dislike the nanoweave changes there is one thing I have to admit: it will work as they intend it.

    They are essentially creating a noobtube for suit slots. This is in itself a good idea. A noobtube is designed to offer newbies some advantage that simplifies their battle against veterans but still teaches you the basic skills to advance and become a veteran yourself. As the newby progresses he will advance far enough to realize and understand the drawbacks and abandon it in favor of the skills that can offer them greater rewards if they pursue them..
    Despite my hate for the way they handle it their execution is actually smart. Games like PS2 without matchmaking need noobtube like features to help newbies learn the game without feeling they have to beat their face against a wall to progress and become somewhat capable. It makes it more fun for them and increases player retention.

    As for the 10% movement reduction is not that impactful as you make it out to be. The most used class in the game is the Heavy Assault who's movement speed is reduced by 25% whenever they activate their shield. That movement speed penalty has never been that big an issue for most players and veterans are still using it a lot as well. The only difference is that nanoweave will be permanently on and will not degrade like any of the HA shield versions.

    You seem hell bent on removing OHK protections which seems counterproductive to the whole "skill on top!" Rethoric you seem to be going for. If you have to rely on a OHK and can't finish with a second shot, apparently you were missing the skill to position and finish the job. The advantage of not having many OHK's is that players can feel they had a chance to defend themselves, and the lack of a feeling to defend themselves is 9 times out of 10 the reason people complain about something. OHK's and excessive headshot multipliers also make accuracy far too valuable, meaning players dont require as much other skills to get by and diminishing learning those skills. In a matchmaking game like COD such excessive rewards for a single skill is A-OK, but in PS2 where no matchmaking exists and many weapons designed around many skillsets its a bad idea to keep accuracy as powerful as it is.
    We need less OHK and the headshot multiplier needs to go down. My guess is that between 1.5 and 2 the headshot ratio would be more in line with other skills to learn. Currently its effectively 2.5 due to nanoweave not blocking headshots.

    As for your own idea's. They could be added as additions, rather than the only alternative. Having more variety is good. Some things are a bit nonsensical though. Most non-small arms weapons in the game have no HS multiplier at all, like a tank shell. So having nanoweave finally protecting against headshots but not small-arms is strange.
    • Up x 2
  3. Nighda Venesis

    Whether it works as they intend it or not would depend on whether the movement speed reduction really is significant enough. If it isn't significant enough for veterans then they will stick with it as well and little changes, at which point why add it at all if you want to use it to protect new players? New players will be moving slower around bases they don't know yet and are easier to hit, and veterans while yes they will move slower as well, will have access to implants such as Mobility Mesh for Heavy Assault and Athlete for all classes to partially counteract the loss in speed somewhat, and we shouldn't forget that veterans know how to aim for the head and bypass new player NanoWeave as I believe I've already stated. The loss of NanoWeave application to the Heavy Assault abilities reduces the number of shots to kill to the body on a full HitPoint Heavy Assault by 1 for damage models 143, 167, and 200 if I remember right, so while it helps, it's note very impressive, and I don't think these changes will make the game feel much better to play for new players or veterans as such inconsistencies still exist where they don't have to. I'm still not convinced it will help new players in a way that genuinely improves the game for them.

    The NS03 Thumper has an innate 10% movement speed reduction and while it's not really comparable to NanoWeave we can at least see whether people find this significant enough to pick LightWeight Materials over the other options available to this weapon. Personally, I do find it significant, and do pick LightWeight Materials. If NanoWeave also goes live as it was leaked, I will also pick something else, but I cannot say the same for other players, and I know there are plenty of Thumper users who prefer one or multiple of the other attachments.

    I can't quite pinpoint where you're getting this from, but I think it might be from the Flak Armor changes I proposed.

    Currently, Flak Armor doesn't protect at all against Tank Guns. That went away about 3 years ago or so iirc. So actually this would add one shot protection against L100 Python AP and HEAT, Supernova PC, P2120 AP, P2-120 HESH, Titan 150 HEAT, (P2120 HEAT already does not one shot infantry). Sticky grenades currently still kill you if your stuck with one despite flak armor, that doesn't change. The only one shot I see that is added is from the Decimator, though I do think and should have mentioned its damage should be changed in some way to not allow for that, similar to how the other dumbfire launchers currently do even without Flak Armor needing to be equipped. It should remain the most powerful per shot damage dumbfire of course, that's its identity.

    If this is not where you were drawing that from, please do let me know. I really dislike being OHKed as well, but I'm a bit more understanding if it's from a bolt action sniper.

    NanoWeave doesn't protect against Tank Guns. Like I said neither does Flak Armor currently. Kobalt has a 2x headshot multiplier. There's no need for this on any vehicle gun. It shouldn't be a minority, it should be none imo, and if NanoWeave doesn't protect against headshots it would as such increase the multiplier for vehicle guns like you say it does already:

    I've been thinking about what if the headshot multiplier was reduced a bit myself (not accounting for NanoWeave bs), but I haven't done so enough to have any real conclusions yet.

    Could you expand on how come you dislike it, or direct me to a post where you've already done so?
  4. JustGotSuspended

    we get new players?

    For sure, removing nanoweave is the ultimate solution that will help new players stick around. It's definitely the most significant issue, every noob complains about the extra 1-2 rounds it takes to kill a nanoweave target.
    • Up x 2