Nanoweave affects more than just snipers. It is a nerf to NC, long ranged combat & gameplay pace

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Trysaeder, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. Trysaeder

    NW5 allows at least 2 extra shots at maximum damage range for every automatic weapon, and gives 3 or more at further ranges against weaker weapons or with biolab regen. This 50% bonus HP opens up imbalances in all types of combat, from CQC TTK to long range hits landed, to being better than ASC while using medkits.

    2 shots extra takes a relatively large amount of time. The SAW requires 40% more bullets to kill someone with NW5, and all the 167 damage weaopns require 33% more. This affects everyone not using NW, but it affects NC the most since the majority of their guns follow this high damage, low rate of fire model.

    Atlong ranges, NW5 is a complete game changer. Most guns now require three extra bullets, which is approximately 1 extra burst. When you are forced to fire 3 subsequent bullets at that range, whatever recoil you've accrued will affect those shots more than anything that's come before. Those last 3 shots required to punch through the bonus given by NW5 are the least likely to hit, making the "only three extra shots" argument an oversimplification of the situation, intended to mislead people about the superiority of NW. An accuracy of 50% (who has anywhere near that?) results in that 50% bonus health adding SIX extra shots of survivability, increasing your EHP at long ranges by far more than the "one, maybe two" figure commonly stated.

    On top of the extra burst required, we all know that at ~50-70 metres you can be clinically ******** and still survive a sniper headshot.

    The ultimate benefit of NW5 is its versatility, taking over some of the benefits of its main competitiors, ASC and Flak. A NW5 user has 750 health when his shields are completely down. As long as you are alive, a medkit restores you to 75% of a normal soldier's EHP instantly, making it a faster and safer way of surviving than ASC in hectic fights. An ASC user must wait another ~8 seconds on top of using the medkit to reach 750 HP. A NW user can trade hits with an ASC user until both are nearly dead, retreat, and be back at fighting capacity while the ASC user is still at 500 HP, waiting for the benefit of ASC to kick in. The only thing required while NW is equipped is that you stay alive, which is much easier than with any other suit slot unless you expect to be taking solely explosive damage. Even this area is protected against by NW, due to the linear nature of explosive falloff, the lethal radius decrease (0.5-0.75m) of the extra 50% health remains significant (cuts off 33% of the average splash radius).

    In its original +25% health state, NW was already the most popular suit attachment compared to the rest. It blocked 1 extra bullet at close range and 2 at long ranges, practically making you fire 4 more shots, or approximately one burst, to kill a NW5 user. Eventually, Flak was buffed to 50% during the time when explosives had not been nerfed yet, making it a situationally great suit option. The difference is the Flak protects against enemies that are more powerful than you, and nanoweave protects against enemies that were once equal to you. In the end, the nerf to vehicle splash damage, buff to AV options and buff to nanoweave makes Flak quite unnecessary, and NW remains overused.

    With all these benefits piling up, you'd have to be incredibly narrow minded to believe that the unjustified doubling of NW's effect affects only snipers, "those useless players who don't deserve to succeed because they do not fall into my preferred playstyles". The entire NC faction is hurt, ASC users (even after the buff) are fighting against instant 75% HP enemies, and even Flak armour is less competitive. Nanoweave armour not only unbalances the game, but offers too much of a "one cert fits most" strength.

    I know this thread will attract many emotionally vested NW deniers, but if you've read the whole thing then the final thought I want to leave with you is this: does the improved version of nanoweave benefit the gameplay fairly?
    • Up x 31
  2. MarkAntony

    You better be wearing a firefighters suit. Because you'll be flamed to the deepest depths of hell for this.
    • Up x 6
  3. FateJH

    Yes. Everyone can equip it. Everyone can reap the benefits of it while suffering the complications of dealing with it on an enemy.

    If the problem is that other options are not as attractive, conceptually or realistically, then the proper solution is to move them into a more attractive position compared to Nanoweave. Nerfing is the mindless solution and you've already come so far in thinking this through to give up now.
    • Up x 4
  4. Hibiki54

    Wow. You are completely misinformed. Go back to school and do research, dude.
  5. Phazaar

    OP is absolutely correct on almost all counts. Chances of it getting changed? About 0, I figure. Roll on BF4.
    • Up x 3
  6. MarkAntony

    A very compelling and civil argument detailing all the reasons why he is wrong and should continue to educate himself.
    • Up x 16
  7. Campagne

    "A nerf to the NC" seems to me like bad luck for the NC more than anything, although admittedly it is a very arguably agreeable and well written point.
    • Up x 3
  8. Theodwulf

    Does anyone enjoy being killed faster? Being one-shoted? The only issue I see is that other "suit" certs are way to expensive compared to NW OR the NW is too cheap.
    • Up x 1
  9. Zombekas

    Hi Stew360, new forum account? :D
    • Up x 6
  10. Sossen

    Not enough poor grammar.
    • Up x 8
  11. Hamsta

    I do & several others.
    Actually the majority of the population would prefer "shorter" TTK even if they don't realize it.

    Ever play those "survival" games where they toss wave after waves of mobs at you which progressively get tankier and tankier as time goes on?
    Even with uber skills after a certain point, you'll lose simply because things just don't die fast enough even if you're shooting headshots constantly.
    And that tends to be pretty darn annoying, losing just because of poor game mechanics.

    Now too short a TTK is also a problem since any monkey with an automatic weapon will just constantly spray & pray. *Cough COD Cough* BUT there is a sweet spot which varies a bit from game to game. (Generally takes FPS games months, if not years to reach.)

    Still, I'm not sure why the devs just don't give snipers a different damage pattern?
    Instead of linear (which is derpy) why not a damage pattern of X^2?
    Ridiculous close range = 1 hit kill headshot.
    Mid / mid-far = 2 hit kill headshot.
    Far = 1 hit kill headshot.

    Why far = 1 hit kill? Because of bullet drop, scope sway, and since it's mostly monkeys who stand still die to snipers at that range.

    The crazy part?
    My main is actually a sniper....Engineer since AV turret is actually a better sniper rifle than the sniper rifles.
    • Up x 3
  12. Sossen

    No, it's 2 extra bullets for most guns.

    Assuming that you need 12 bullets to begin with and the supposed 3 from NWA 5 are added to that, you have 25% extra base health. If my accuracy is 50%, you need 24 bullets excluding NWA 5 and 6 for that, still 25% extra.

    This is the point I agree with. They need to drop NWA 5 to 150 HP, in order to balance the different damage types.
    • Up x 2
  13. Zombekas

    I played Orcs Must Die 2 and it was daaam fun, what other games do you know that fit your description? :D
    • Up x 1
  14. McToast

    Yes please! TTK in this game is so ridiculously high, yet some people talk about it as a low TTK! Low compared to what? An mmorpg? Even with high calibre weapons I have to shoot an enemie 3x in the head, if he's wearing NW5 4x. He should be dead after the second headshot.
    Maybe I've played CS 1.x too much over the last 15 years, but if I shoot an enemie in the face with a high damage weapon he better should die. Make recoil controll harder (its freaking easy atm) or something, but the damage weapons deal is way to low and players HP - especially with NW - way to high imho.

    the Toast
    • Up x 2
  15. CaligoIllioneus

    Even shorter TTK? The TTk is too low as is. Shorter TTK means the one that shoots first always wins in every situation, and with clientside hit detection it'd be chaos, and overall even without that issue it'd be less fun.

    One shot mechanics are awful, except for certain things like being shot by a tank or such.
    • Up x 3
  16. UberBonisseur

    Don't forget the biggest issue:

    If your target starts to realize it's being shot, it will most likely
    -Run to cover
    -Circle strafe
    -Activate NMG

    Not just that, but don't forget BUDDIES ALSO REACT TO GUNFIRE.
    Shooting a HA is like flipping a coin. If he doesn't have Nanoweave, he'll die fast enough. If he has Nanoweave, he'll manage to triple an otherwise short TTK and alert everyone around.

    All of those account on EXTRA BULLETS.
    Nanoweave = 2 extra shots
    Nanoweave + Dodging = 6 extra shots
    Nanoweave + Dodging + NMG = 10 extra shots

    Sure you killed the guy.
    Your magazine is also half empty and you can't kill his buddy who's been alerted by the gunfire.

    • Up x 4
  17. Zotamedu

    I stopped reading after the first paragraph when you claim that NC are bad at long range. Your high damage slow ROF also comes with some of the best long range weapons in the game. The SAW is so accurate it can more easily land those extra hits than a CARV which is much more of a spray and pray weapon. So if anything, it's a buff for your accurate weapons. The closest we TR get is a TMG-50 which is a slightly worse SAW-S. I find it much easier to kill at range with that than the CARV-S I currently use. The ROF is irrelevant at those ranges due to COF and recoil. You need to burst to hit anything at all and then ROF gets rather useless.
  18. Ravenorth

    A suit upgrade that affects to the direct TTK without any downsides should had never been existed in the first place, its just not balanced.
    • Up x 2
  19. TeknoBug

    Yes TTK is a tad too short for such an MMOFPS, TTK in PS1 was just right.
    • Up x 2
  20. Eclipson

    So whats the downside of Flak armor, Ammunition belt, Munitions pack, and Adv. Shield capacitor?
    • Up x 2