My vision of Light Assault

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by Iridar51, Sep 21, 2015.

  1. Iridar51

    Every player above battle rank 10 has access to spawn beacons. To use one, you have to be a squad leader. After you deploy it, members of your squad can drop pod on top of it.

    However, spawn beacons can only be placed outdoors / only where they have clear sky above them. And they only work during organized play. Heavy use of Galaxies makes it redundant. It will be easier and more reliable to get people somewhere using a galaxy or a valk, and they won't even have to be in the same squad.

    Spawn beacons, however, are often used to provide respawn after a galaxy drop, as usually galaxy flies away or crashes after the drop.
  2. Eternaloptimist

    Thanks for that, Iridar.
  3. Iridar51

    Sure thing. I also forget to mention that spawn beacon needs to be unlocked with certs in Squad (command?) certifications menu, which is somewhere in Social menu, if I recall correctly.
  4. haldolium

    I am missing the "vision" in your post entirely, which is more a(nother) rant about HA.

    LA is a supporting attack role currently, and it's effectiveness is mostly influenced by the base design and point of attacks.

    I don't know what you really want for it, since as you said yourself, most issues come from direct gameplay design issues where kills sadly matter the most and diversity isn't given, such as other ways to capture a base, instead of just getting one or more points and hold them.
  5. Iridar51

    Vision is that LA should not be a stealth / ambush class it was forced to become by faulty game mechanics.
    You can treat like it a rant about HA. Or you can ask yourself what is the reason for all the rants about HA.
  6. haldolium

    Well that isn't a vision. Thats just a complaint. A vision would include some constructive ideas, such as in the trailer (I still wish we could shoot into the Gal while walking on top of it).

    As others already pointed out, for the LA to become more, some ground rules would need to change to put him in an actual position to be more as just a support attack role.

    That is an issue that affects all of PS2 combat, not only the LA. It's just too simple and shallow, with little in-depth gameplay.
    • Up x 2
  7. Iridar51

    I'm just tired of seeing people suggest over and over again tools that would strengthen our role as stealth / ambush class, even in this thread, which is not what LA should be, in my opinion. Reasoning provided.

    Call it what you like, mr. dictionary.

    It isn't my responsibility to offer detailed solutions. That's game designers' job. I've said in broad terms: more meaningful objectives, and nerf / rework HA shield. I've posted suggested rework several times already.

    There this Russian anecdote:
    "A Chukchi brings a book into a publishing house. The publisher opens the book and says "What the hell? It's all gibberish. Can you even read?" And Chuckchi says: "Chuckchi is a writer, not a reader".
  8. Eternaloptimist

    I made a comment in a post ages ago that I thought LA needed more resilience to function as an assault class, so I agree with Iridar that HA tends to take over the role implied by the 'Assault' in Light Assault title (I admit I am a miserable failure playing LA, having finally lost my taste for HA but still playing like one, but then I am objective-driven in all things).

    I kind of think that the quick attack and fast-capture role of LA is a good one if they can survive to get there but they need some tool to summon reinforcements when they secure their objective that is less cumbersome than waiting for a Gal drop (assuming anybody organises one). Or some way to be resupplied other than waiting for a Sundy to make it through.

    That still leaves the question already posed, of what is the reward/incentive? like people who spawn Sundies get XP every time someone spawns from it...I dunno.

    Give LA more resilience in some form, a useful tool fitted to their assault purpose and a reason to use it and I reckon we could see some changes in gameplay eventually.
  9. Leivve

    Problem is as you said, you turn the LA into mobility Infiltrators, instead of stealthy, or you turn them into wannabe heavies.

    I don't think the problem is the HA shield (though I still think it should be nerfed in some way), but rather the fact they don't have any clear role. HA kills ****, and have become the main front line infantry. Yet the game intended for LA to be the main infantry with the HA acting as back up. This is due to the fact the Heavy can just do everything. while the LA either can't or has to fill the role with something some people could brand as a gimmick more then a mechanic.

    I'm not saying give LA launchers, but they seriously need to take a look at the HA and ask "What do we actually want this thing to do, and what situations would you NOT want it in." I think they should do that for all the classes, but let's start with the biggest offender on the field of play. And yes, they need to ask when they would not want to bring the class. It's easy to answer "when would I want to bring a class that is intended to kills things, to a battlefield." but it's much harder to ask when you would want to keep the big guns put away.
    I actually think one of the problems for game balance in general is ammo. You just carry too much of it at one time. Five mags for a 40 round weapon doesn't sound like a lot, but in game (especially when the average life span is 30 seconds) that is a TON of ammo you'll probably not use. Other shooters like Dirty Bomb always have you in a situation where you always in need of ammo. This limits your capabilities to fight a lot and makes you reliant on your team. You always have enough ammo so you can still go on those crazy kills streaks, but not enough that you can feel self sufficient. I think reducing the amount of ammo LMGs carry with them would greatly hinder their abilities to fight in prolonged battles without actually taking away from their fire power. It would reduce their mobility since they would have to restock, and be anchored to an engineer or terminal to keep their ammo supply at an acceptable level.

    This in contrast brings out what the LA's strength is. Mobility, skirmishing, and attack. They would still play the same as they do now, but the fact that they aren't tied down to an ammo pack like their fat cousins means they can quickly get to an objective and stay supplied long enough for their team to arrive (assuming they don't die, naturally) and then adopt the roll of outrider.

    TL;DR - Light Assult should fill the role of vanguard and outrider, Heavy Assault should be point man and defender.
    • Up x 1
  10. Serialkillerwhale

    And in comes the crux of the problem.

    Rather than naming LA something more fitting, like "Scout" or "Airborne" or even label them "Commando" and HA "Shock Trooper" they just slapped "Light assault" onto it. But that in and of itself, isn't a problem, Light Infantry throughout history had the same overall "Row" the LA has, Auxiliaries and Skirmishers, while the HA falls into the category of Heavy Infantry, who slam into the enemy frontline in formation and form the core of the Army.

    Seeing a pattern here? This is how infantry combat plays out. You have the long-range "Archers" (Sniper Infs, AV Mana), The "Heavy Infantry" (MAX, Heavy Assault), the Auxiliaries/Skirmishers (Light Assault), Support forces (Medics) and Siege weaponry (Engineers and the Vehicles they ride).

    Just read the LA's description.
    Keyword: FLANKING.

    Indeed, if you read the descriptions, You'd get the impression that durability went like Infilitrator=Light Assault<Medic=Engineer<Heavy Assault rather than simply "Infs have low Hp, everyone else has the same, HA has a shield ability".

    Watching the video, here's what happens.

    Entire wave of LAs run a cliff, clearly a flanking maneuver, the TR show great reaction time to this blitz, if not fast enough, the beacon is dropped somewhere off the TR LoS and a wave of NC forces move in.

    This again, shows LAs FLANKING.

    To be completely honest, if I had to identify one class as the "Problem" within PS, it'd be the LA, namely C4 fairies, and how easily they can take out armor, especially in comparison to the Classes SUPPOSED to do so, the Engineer and the Heavy Assault (Respectively mentioned as utilizing demolitions and heavy anti-armor weaponry) while the LA never mentions anything regarding tanks.
  11. Iridar51

    You're biased as biased can be. Since when PS2 wiki - filled in by fans - has any credibility over how things are and how they are supposed to be?
    OTOH, in the trailer, LA takes out a tank with what looks like a hand grenade and a Galaxy with carbine fire. Unfortunately, in the game itself there's no open hatches or breakable-glass-cockpits to exploit, hence the reliance on satchel charges.
    "Attack from the hill so it's a flank" logic is ridiculous. What you call flanking maneuver I call bypassing natural obstacles. It doesn't necessarily has to be a flanking attack. It's "I don't care about your fortifications" attack.
  12. Serialkillerwhale

    First off, everyone is biased, and I'm a hell of a lot less biased than someone who demands his class take the entire role of another class, and relegate that class to being a support to his after his class already takes a major role from that class (Read: Anti-Vehicle, when has dealing with AV infantry meant rocket HAs instead of C4 fairies?)

    That part I mention is a quote from an official post, so yeah.

    And it's not a hill, it's a cliff, and they clearly aren't attacking the TR's frontlines, simply from the positioning of the soldiers in the first shot, note both tanks have their sides pointed towards the LAs, Prowlers are nondistinct enough to argue it's the front or the back, but the side is clearly a flanking maneuver.

    And please, throwing grenades down a tank is a classic movie scene added to get people to play, which is the point of the trailer, just admit that the LA is stealing from the HA (and the engineer) in terms of roles and not the other way around.
  13. Who Garou

    Use the tools the way you want to use them and let other players use the tools the way they want to use them.

    Honestly, yeah, Light Assaults can be great for stealth. I don't like using infiltrator cloaks unless I'm trying to avoid aircraft - they make too much noise turning off and on - ... well, yeah, unless I'm trying to scare someone by cloaking and uncloaking.

    I don't think you should limit your flexibility with a class. Keep an open mind of all the possible uses and use them when the correct time for their implementation rolls around.
  14. Iridar51

    I refuse to call killing tanks a role. "Attack enemy assets" is not a role. All vehicles can kill all infantry, how is it fair that only select classes should be able to defend themselves against vehicles?

    Light Assault is an assault class. It has no tools for flanking, stealth or scouting. You can jump over a wall with the jet pack, that's it. Without knowing what you're getting into, that in itself is not an advantage, and will often put the player in harm's way, as opposed to methodically running from cover to cover. Unless you actually kill the enemy. Which is what LAs should be good at, but they're not. That is my vision. Feel free to disagree.

    And you sound like you think C4 LAs are better at killing tanks than HAs, which is not the case.

    What official quote? I see only a wiki page. Not credible.

    So "a thing that was in a trailer that serves your purpose" is credible, but "another thing that was in a trailer but serves against your purpose" is not credible? Hypocrite.
  15. Serialkillerwhale

    So me refuting your own usage of the trailer marks ME a hypocrite?
    And please, for Higby's sake, just try and check sources. A simple google search pulls up repeated mentions of that line, and it's hardly something a wiki-user would pull out of their ***.
    And of course, your own source shows that besides MBT cannons, which cost 450 and a Tech Plant, the highest Kills are from C4, with only the TR having mines trumping C4, and at a smaller differential than the amount VS and NC C4 kills trump tank mines.
    And again, Tank mines take proper skill to use, unlike "Jetpack above, throw C4, win", and require you invest your resources to use them, rather than only when you gurantee a kill, as with C4.
    And yes, Killing tanks is a role. Demanding infantry be on the safe footing as tanks is downright asinine, Vehicles are powerful, they should be, and even DBG more or less gave that role to the Engineer and Heavy Assault.
    Furthermore, the incorrect labelling aside, Light Assault is NOT an assault class, it's role is to flank, and that's why it has a jetpack, it's simple really. You can go in through the roof, from a cliff, or in various other directions other classes cannot. That's how flanking works. You aren't a Hoplite, you aren't a Legionnaire, you're an auxiliary, fight like it.
  16. Iridar51

    No, using only parts that suit your case and disregarding everything else in the trailer makes you a hypocrite.
    It's exactly something a wiki user would be paid to fantasize about. You're trying to prove something here - you provide sources. Why should I do your job for you?
    "My source" shows that C4, which is available to 4 classes, barely exceeds rocket launchers, which are only available to 1 class, and have less kills than tank mines, also available to 1 class. That doesn't scream to me "C4 LAs are stealing AV role from HA / engi".

    Your tank mine vs C4 comparison clearly indicates you've never actually used C4. Come back when you have.
    I didn't say "safe footing", I said to be able to defend themselves. To have an ability to inflict damage. Are you saying vehicles should be immune to LAs, no matter how stupid they act and how hard they fail? That is asinine, and leads to a flawed and unfun game.

    "Light Assault is NOT an assault class, it's role is to flank,"
    Read the OP. LA has no tools for that, compared to an actual flanking class - infiltrator.

    "You aren't a Hoplite, you aren't a Legionnaire, you're an auxiliary, fight like it."
    I fight like it. I don't believe it should be that way, though.
  17. Nagant

    Just a quick idea...

    How about adding more grenades to the LA maybe even different types of them? How about a built in 5slot grenade band, and access to most (all?) grenades types? Still, they should preset the types of grenades they carry for their mission. And the LA could keep the other armour options too?

    This way they could use emp-s, or that false radar signal grenades to mask their approach, concussion and flash for breaches, sticky or AV against veichles (instead of c4, 5 AV grenades + 2 C4 would obviously be too much). And yeah, maybe even healing grenades (revives? dunno) so they can prolong their presence till reinforcements catch up.

    Just imagine half a dozen LA-s at the same time above a chockepoint with their grenade spam! :) That would be op ofcourse, but don't forget that this scenario would require to burn large amount of resources (lotsa grenades cost lotsa resources), AND coordingation of 6 men so it is supposed to feel OP, isn't it!

    On the other hand nothing would stop these band-LAs to simply spam grenades without the real "assault" approach.

    But hey, it's at least an idea!
    • Up x 1
  18. Skiptrace

    I think the main problem LA's face is true, the HA shield is a gigantic brick wall. However, each other class has some form of useful tool that benefits everyone. Medics and Engineers have their support stuff. Infils can Hack and use Darts/Motion Spotters, and HA's can meat shield for what feels like ages. What do LA's have? C4, that's pretty much it... Smoke Grenades are covered by Engineers with Underbarrel Smoke Launcher, and Flash Grenades are damn near useless and actually would fit better in the arsenal of a Infil. Here's a few ideas for some new Grenades for the LA only.

    Cluster Grenade: Explodes into 6 little bomblets that you can use to carpet bomb an area, they deal about 75% of the damage of a normal Frag.

    Shortfuse Frag: This frag has a much shorter fuse time which leads to faster killing potential, but lower range.

    Here's some ideas for LA only abilities.

    The ability to throw grenades back at the enemy: No matter how COD sounding this is, the ability to pick up and throw a frag back at someone would have saved my *** countless times in this game.

    The ability to climb onto the outside of air vehicles: That trailer with the LA was pretty friggin awesome, why not make it something you can do In game? Oh boo hoo that you actually have to make some animations DBG, that's your job...

    HRV: Ok, i'm gonna take this from another game that I love, Blacklight: Retribution (A really solid F2P FPS). Everyone in that game has an ability called HRV, it's essentially Wallhacking, for everyone playing. You can see everyone's position and roughly how close they are to you, and you can see any Depot points where you can purchase stuff for in-match credits. While, most people would cry OP in this game, As long as you have a Light Assault with you, you should not have a problem with any other LA's HRV. Also, you can't shoot while using HRV in BL:R, so the same would apply here.

    Riot Suppressor: This is an interesting idea. It's essentially a long duration Concussion Grenade, with a small amount of DoT damage. It has a conal AOE in front of you for about 15m, and lasts 10s at max rank. It ticks shields for a small amount of damage, and does not affect allies nor does it damage allies.

    Now, I know most of these ideas are either from other games or, already suggested, the LA needs SOME kind of Tool Slot... It currently has only 1 team utility, and that is C4 Fairy. Infil's can flank better, HA's can... Well be OP. Medics can Heal. and Engi's can repair **** and spew ammo everywhere. While C4 Fairy is fun, it gets old...
  19. Chazt

    What I want to see is a jetpack like the one shown in the trailer, short burst with tons of vertical and forward momentum. Something like the packs you would see a space marine using is 40k
    • Up x 1
  20. Serialkillerwhale

    So "Jump Jets"? I'm a bit worried about dealing with fall damage on those.

    Now, in favor of saving space, I'm not gonna quote Iridar here.

    1: Debunking your claims that the video shows Light Assaults as a frontal attack class isn't hypocritical. Nor is marking a part that was blatantly a cliche war movie scene.
    2: Light Assaults DO have a flanking tool, it's called a Jetpack. Using a Jetpack gives you greater mobility and the ability to attack from directions other classes cannot, ie the roof, up a hill, down a cliff, through windows, and overall is a flanking/mobility tool.
    3: Yes, that post I mentioned IS made by SOE(Before they became DBG), and Flanking/Skirmishing is also mentioned in the VR for first-timers. Make a new char and check it out.
    4: Again, you mention Oracle Of Death, yet it itself claims that C4 trumps Tank mines, and your arguement that every class uses it, again, is invalidated by the fact that MOST classes don't have Jetpacks to exploit alongside them. Tank Mines Usage is stragetic, and requires prediction and co-ordination to make a meaningful minefield. C4 just involves blind leeroying until it don't lose anything and the top gunner has a definitely greater task and risk than you do.
    5: You can believe whatever you want.

    Oh and before you toss anything at me, I'm not a HA player. I rarely even touch the class. I'm an engineer Main and spend most of my time pulling ammo sundies along armor columns and running to and fro delivering ammo.