My vision of Light Assault

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by Iridar51, Sep 21, 2015.

  1. Iridar51



    To me, this is what LA always was. A nimble class that quickly fights his way through to the objective, bypassing most static threats, while other classes behind him are tied in combat. The first man on point. The tip of the spear. The vanguard. The first responder.

    I often see people making statements like "Light Assault is a stealth / ambush class", putting the class in the same basket as Infiltrator.

    So how did it come to this? Why LA gameplay evolved like this?

    The answer is big and consists of many little things, that pile up together in a game design failure.
    • Objective play is unrewarding. Kill farming is. There's little to no reason to actually fight for a base, to be on point. There were some adjustments to point capture XP, but it's one step on a mile long road.
    • Bases are convoluted, and there are 9000 other threats besides LA, so it's hard for other classes to keep aware and be prepared for an LA attack. Bad enemy awareness is commonplace, even among good players.
    So jumping on rooftops and shooting unsuspecting people below, or popping out behind an enemy with a shotgun ready became easy ways of farming kills as LA.
    People treat LA like its main roles are stealth, recon and objective control. And if we ever decide to kill somebody we must do it by attacking from an unexpected direction. People say "attack from behind / high ground, or you're doing it wrong".

    But why people consider LA weak in direct confrontation?
    • Is it the weapons? No, carbines are often actually better for 10-30m fighting than ARs. Infiltrators have weak weapon choices.
    • Is it some inherent disadvantage, like lower HP? No, we have the same HP pool as everyone else. Infiltrators have lower shields.
    • Is it some ability or a tool that makes us less noticeable or gives us an advantage in planning an ambush? No. Infiltrators get radar tools and cloaks. Our only "tool" or "ability" in that regard is enemy's bad awareness. Not exactly reliable.
    LA seems fine on its own. And certainly doesn't look like an ambush class. So why is LA considered inept for direct combat? You know the answer. There's a class that does the same thing twice as good. The class that has been the plague of this game since release and hasn't been nerfed since. The Heavy Assault.
    If we pretend like HA shield doesn't exist, there really would be no reason to keep us from just jumping straight ahead and fighting our way through the objective. But the very first HA shield we meet will become a brick wall. If you're good enough, and HA is bad enough, you can break through that wall. But these walls will keep popping up along your path, and clip your wings eventually.

    Face to face, LA has fair chances against every other class, except HA. Given the prevalence of HA as the most played class in the game, and lack of team supporting utility (repairs / heals) you can see how that makes us a third tier class choice at best.

    So people treat LA like a stealth / ambush / recon class, and keep suggesting new tools and abilities that would fit Infiltrators much better. I can't stress enough how much I disagree with that vision.

    I don't like when Jet Pack is being treated as a tool for ambushing, when it should be treated as a tool to scale obstacles on the way to objective.

    People ask for team utility. This has potential to make LA play more rewarding, but we must tread carefully here. Otherwise we stand a risk to be downgraded to mixed support instead of indirect assault.

    HA OP shield and unrewarding objectives is what's keeping LA from performing the intended way.
    • Up x 6
  2. _itg

    I like your vision of the light assault class, but let's be honest, even if you took HAs out of the game, most of those players would switch to medic before LA. The bigger issue is that the LA may make it to the point first, but the game isn't about getting to the point; it's about sitting on it for 4 minutes. Mobility isn't useful for guard duty. Now, if Planetside had "capture the flag" style objectives, LA could be extremely effective.
    • Up x 2
  3. Iridar51

    Not necessarily, but even if they were - it wouldn't be a problem. We can kill medics.

    Good point, but not 100% correct. To sit on a point you must first capture the point, get to the point. On most bases this can be made easier by using a galaxy drop, but that takes coordination and organization, which isn't there by default.

    And developers are already taking steps to reduce the "sitting on point" time. If I'm not mistaken, with recent capture changes it's now possible to overload the SCU if all 3 points are captured.
  4. _itg


    The thing is, what difference does it make if a few LAs (or even a lot of them) make it to the point first? The other classes have to get there, too, if you want to actually hold the point. Having a few LAs flip the point early might save you a few seconds, but it doesn't change much, especially since the real test in capturing the base is holding out against the reinforcements who won't bother to show up until well after the point flips.
    • Up x 1
  5. Iridar51

    What you're talking about is LA stealthily going behind enemy lines to flip the point solo.
    What I'm talking about is LA fighting his way through enemies, storm into occupied point building, kill everyone, and then capture and hold.

    Why not LAs? With the exception of HA, they should be able to adequately hold off enemy reinforcements.

    And often holding against reinforcements isn't necessary. Making the enemy dispatch those reinforcements in the first place is a victory of its own, because enemies running back to capture point are not fighting on the front lines, which gives LAs' allies a numerical advantage. There's a chance that the front line will collapse, and a huge wave of allied reinforcements will storm in the point building right after enemy reinforcements that came to capture it back from LAs.
  6. _itg


    No, what I'm talking about is that even if HAs didn't exist, there's no special reason why you'd use LAs to fight your way to the point over any other class, because getting there first isn't much benefit, and in the vast majority of point rooms, medics are objectively stronger than LAs, who basically turn into engis without ammo packs. Nerfing HAs would make LAs less bad when reduced to non-support engi status, but the relative strength of the LA class is still primarily in flanking and ambushing.
  7. Iridar51

    I specifically said there were 2 things holding LA back: HA shield AND lack of rewarding objectives. By that I don't mean just low XP rewards for capturing bases and overloading gens, I also mean lack of stuff to do besides that.

    There is special reason: speed and bypassing static defenses or less mobile enemy assets. Enemies camping a doorway is an impenetrable wall of lead for other classes save for MAXes, LA laughs it off and jets straight to the roof.

    Medic can't be stronger than LA in a room if they are not in the room. And if allied reinforcements make it into the cap room, LA's job is done and he's free to go to pursue other objectives, like intercept enemy reinforcements, destroy SCU / soft spawns and some other stuff if that were to exist.

    Getting there first is always benefit. Speed is everything. If you shave off 30 seconds from every base capture during an alert, suddenly it adds up to 20 minutes worth of advantage.
  8. Demigan

    Ok, so how about adding more lethality to the class?

    HA has a shield which helps him in general combat, that coupled with his LMG and rocketlauncher make him a super-b fighting class.
    If you really want the LA to be a frontline soldier, it's going to need something to deal with HA's. You could think off quick-fire weapons that don't interrupt your normal combat. So imagine shoulder-mounted weapons that you can fire even though you never stop firing your Carbine, the extra damage allows you to quickly dispatch off enemies. Create several shoulder mounts each with a different focus, such as CQC, mid range and long-range (or what goes for long range on the LA). Put a cooldown or limited ammo on the weapons and they won't be spammed more than HA shields. Sounds fair right?
    Alternatively/additionally you could make them replace the knife ability. It does interrupt you firing other weapons but allows you to do a quick high damage strike. For instance by mounting the weapons on the sleeves.

    Other updates could include making the Flash grenade an explode-on-contact grenade. It's better suited to have that ability than the EMP grenade anyway. This allows the LA to better go into direct combat, especially against multiple HA's.
    Creating more objectives that require stealth or mobility to take out, such as generators with health that can be destroyed with firepower, but place most of these in hard to reach places. This means you can go in, destroy the generator and get out, while a HA needs to fight through a horde of enemies to even get there. These generators could power alternative ways in, such as a hole at the top of a biolab for LA to move through or skylights of buildings that open up allowing the LA another way in.

    And maybe we could just put a bunch of special abilities on the LA that help him in direct combat. Something to stabilize his weapons so his COF doesn't grow too large no matter if he's walking, jumping or flying would definitely help him become a frontline soldier again. Getting access to a leech ability to suck away all ability energy of one infantry man on the fly, disabling shields or hostile jetpacks in one swift movement etc.

    Edit:
    Oh, and get some CTF objectives, such as capturing a "loose" point that you can carry anywhere you wish as long as it stays within the base. Or actual things you can capture and bring back to your Sunderer or even base for some kind of advantage or actually capturing the base.
  9. Iridar51

    You're overthinking it. A simple HA shield nerf / rework would do the trick. It's long overdue anyway.

    Flash grenades wouldn't be suited for direct combat. Direct combat is you turn a corner and come face to face with an enemy. Trying to throw a grenade at that time will result in quick death.
  10. Demigan

    There is nothing wrong with the HA shield. It works and it's not OP, it's a great class ability but the game's objectives and the lack of goal-oriented specialization make the HA the best choice for the largest part of the population.
    By making the LA more interesting to play and giving him toys he can be just as much a frontline soldier as the HA.
    The Flash grenades would still be very useful in direct combat. Throw one, get behind cover, finish off your enemies. Or go spec-ops and throw one through a door before entering, improving your direct combat ability by nerfing theirs. With the right implant you can even throw one beneath you to escape nearby enemies before you start dodging and fighting back.
    • Up x 1
  11. Iridar51

    So you're one of them, huh? People who think HA is "frontline" soldier. And what are other classes? Non-combatants? Support and logistics personnel, like cooks, mechanics, drivers, clerks, communication specialists...

    Wake up, dude. There's no back lines in this game. Everywhere is front line. Every soldier is front line soldier. Every soldier should be equally suited for combat.

    Your solution lifts LA to HA level, leaving other classes in the dust.
    My solution lowers HA to everyone's level, making the game more fun and competitive.
    • Up x 2
  12. Nagant

    Maybe make Light assaults undetectable on radar (unless directly spotted), but make the jumpjet more loud. You may as well add a personal radar to the LA with a short radius like 15-20 meters top (make it as a tool if you want). This radar would only work for the LA personally, and not even squadmates would receive the red dots.

    OK, this may lead us to the unwanted "infils with wings" direction, but it would at least give an edge to the Light Assault to evade unwanted encounters or to be prepared if he takes the chances.
  13. AlterEgo

    HA: Frontline soldier who takes damage and can dish out a good bit. Slow, but steady.

    LA: Frontline soldier who deals damage and avoids it. Semi-fragile, yet nimble. The PS2 trailer is the most amazing one I have ever seen in my life. I WANT that urban map, especially the courtyard at the very end; it looked like a perfect area for a final stand. But to stick to the topic, the trailer depicts the LA in a way that makes people think: I'm mobile, I can kill people pretty quick and pretty efficiently, but I'm not immortal considering that my only advantage is my jetpack. Unlike other classes (except for the Engineer in a few areas), the LA doesn't have any innate abilities; he's basically a soldier with a flying machine on his back. Take it away, and he's nothing. With it, he's a killer. Right now, I laugh when I see LAs, mostly because the only thing they're good at is shaking their legs uncontrollably or running with a detonator in their hands.
    • Up x 1
  14. Demigan

    Maybe "frontline soldier" was a misnomer here, but the other classes have their own seperate abilities. No one can deny the Medic being a strong frontline soldier as well, using powerful AR's for great damage and his medic heal to soak up a bullet or two and heal for free after a battle. The engineer is great for all his utilities, he's not just an ammo beacon but his turrets can be the core to keep a position and his explosives can be more powerful than any heavy in taking out MAX's, Sunderers, area denial for vehicles or placing AI minefields to deal with infantry. The Infiltrator is the only one that isn't really "frontline" material, but he can easily be powerful in any battle by using his stealth right.

    Yes, they should rebalance the game. Currently the Heavy can hold rooms and attack rooms better than other classes. By improving other classes and objectives rather than nerfing the Heavy we can make those classes more valuable in certain situations. Preferably the Heavy gets pushed in a more specific role, such as holding points alongside the Engineer, while most attack objectives will be performed by other classes.

    I think every class should have different strengths in combat, but excel in some form of combat over the other classes. HA becomes a defender, Engineer is also a defender+support soldier+tank pilot, LA and Infil become attackers that take out objectives that don't require you to sit near a generator or point for several minutes and the medic becomes something in between the LA and HA. Just as an example.

    I only gave the LA solution, yes, and the other classes do need a boost as well. I would prefer we didn't nerf the HA, it's good as it is, but if we change the roles each class can play in attack and defense as well as add some more functionality to the existing classes, they can become as important and useful in the game as the HA.
  15. Demigan

    Urban? They are fighting at Zurvan AMP station. He is on top of the southwest side when he jumps off the ridge, he passes an antennae that isn't there when you first see the whole battlefield so I wouldn't see too much in the exact details of the landscape, such as the fact that there's a sort of canyon they fight through to get to it or the rows of antennae spread around the rest of the area.
    If you want I'll take a few screenshots from the trailer showing all the tell-tale signs that it's an AMP station and on Indar. Although ofcourse I can't be 100% certain it's Zurvan AMP it's the only one on Indar that has these high ridges all around it.
    At the end the Galaxy rams the rear courtyard of the AMP station.

    Edit: The Galaxy seems to ram the front base part with the vehicle terminals, but there's a warpgate to the right that's probably the North gate. This also means they are coming from the Northeast from Rust Mesa Lookout, which does add up with some of the scenery we see, such as the large tube of Zurvan Complex and the nearby base of Zurvan Storage Yard. The distances are completely warped ofcourse, but seeing a "continent" is +/- 4 to 5 km wide I say that's because they have some sort of visualization compression.
  16. VonStalin

    Even though as LA I get up in the position up high I still avoid killing HAs, because in this kind of client side thing it works only 50% of the time. I start shooting him, he hits F turns around and gets me down with ~25 of heath still left. So to even the odds out HA shields should be toned down by ~25%.
    • Up x 1
  17. Khallixtus

    Whenever I play Light Assault and I get the jump on a Heavy, I almost always come out on top - generally don't if its some of those BR100 Legends or someone else arrived. Same with when I play Heavy, against good shots I almost always lose. Admittedly that's probably because I use Resist and not Adrenaline, but it still happened the same way when I did use it. I think that HA overshield is in a fine spot, but HA is too independent, the effective way to nerf them - and I know this to be true - is to remove medical kits and lower magazine carry amount.

    But back to LA, because this is LA discussions. I think it's in a pretty good spot as is. The jetpack is a very powerful tool when utilised well, and LAs get access to smoke grenades. The amount of times I've managed to breeze past enemy lines by smoke grenading and flying through the top layer is insane, as is the success rate. Unfortunately the video wouldn't load for me D: so I can't really comment on what you said effectively OP, but in skilled hands, the LA becomes a serious weapon for farming and destroying chokeholds, especially in organized, small groups of 2-4. It would be nice for them to gain a little bit more killing power, as being the second Assault class they should be able to 1v1 any class other than HA when they are fighting within their own range that they have set up for. It should be easy pickings if in the right range and you have used your jetpack efficiently (it is easy, but it should be a tad easier) and in compensation make the unique bonuses of medic and engineer greater, such as greater xp earned (a fair bit, because most people just want kills) or give revives a boost to your own KD for saving someone else (maybe not a full kill, but something). But I like the Light Assault as it is with it's tools and mobility and potential kill power. But buffing that kill power slightly would make them a more favourable pick.
  18. Iridar51

    The difference between carbines and ARs is much smaller than people make it out to be. The only class that stands out in direct engagements is HA. Your solution is "make everyone overpowered so nobody is overpowered". It's basically the same as nerfing HA, but with 4 times as much work to rework all classes instead of one that actually is a problem.
  19. Eternaloptimist

    Silly question but a genuine one as I know little about LA.................don't they have spawn beacons they can cert into? or will the beacons only allow squad/platoon members to reinforce once placed? Maybe it's not a strong tool or maybe team play isn't that well developed but it seems that having a tool that allows the LA to call in reinforcements after they have reached an objective quickly is a tactical advantage unique to the class (though not one that has obvious personal benefit, like the HA shield or the Infil cloak).
  20. Demigan

    "OP" is a relative term. The Heavy is mostly OP because his shield gives him more health than other players. If you gave all players more health or the ability to combat his extra health or compensate that somehow you don't make everyone OP, you balance them out against the Heavy.

    Just think if the game had been released with 500 health and 750 shields, and the Heavy shield gave 25% more as well. Would that have made all classes OP? No, it would have made for a different game with longer TTK's and different approaches to attack, defense and how important headshots are for different weapons.

    But we could do other things to create more clear roles. For instance, Heavies keep their current sprint speed, but their walk speed is at 0,75 of what other classes have (but a 0,75ADS weapon will not reduce it further, and a 0,5 ADS weapon will still be 50% of normal walking speed). This makes the Heavy a much more dangerous class to move around with or breach rooms. You either have the disadvantage of delay between sprinting and being able to fire (which could be increased as well), or you have the disadvantage that you have less speed to hipfire and/or breach rooms with. This pushes him into a defensive pattern where his shield is necessary to hold points, but keeps him from being as effective as other classes in attacking.

    As for AR's, they borrow the strength and RPM of Carbines in CQC and are combined with the damage falloff of LMG's, and from the two weapons I quickly checked up on they had better long reload but slightly worse short reload. The AR has worse hipfire but the same ADS fire and a higher muzzle velocity.

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