[Suggestion] My thoughts on the sunderers

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by TRspy007, May 17, 2024.

  1. TRspy007

    I understand this is a bug and will be fixed hopefully by next week, but I wanted to add a few comments since I feel it actually wasn't too bad.

    I know there's been mixed reviews about these new reworks, obviously they were launched prematurely by accident without having been finalized. The deploy dome for example wasn't working for me. However the reactive armor and point defense slot I was able to test and see being used around me and I have a few comments.

    I'll admit that I really enjoyed this update and I know a bunch of people feel the same . For once A2G and lone tankers weren't an issue especially during off hours, and I noticed a lot more players online and infantry fights that lasted longer and were much more fun. I also had a lot of fun fighting other buses and it really felt like a game of battleship trying to get into the right position to deploy so you can delete while your opponent attempts to do the same. It's the most fun I've had in a while and many people feel the same, this really shook up the game in a good way, especially during off hours. I remember there would be few sunderers and they would be extremely vulnerable, few people would even bother defending them against the numerous threats which would just shred it. Now there's deployed sunderers everywhere, and it really encourages infantry fights to develop, since the sunderers also remove any threat to infantry (a2g and other vehicles). A well deployed sunderer is now extremely important and can lock down strategic locations.

    The reason the update is fun is because the ability costs a mere 4 certs to unlock, meaning everyone has access to it. This means everyone is on the same level, and it is a good idea to keep in mind accessibility when releasing important updates such as this. Maybe dynamic pricing based on br or the amount of certs a player owns would be a good idea for future patches. The fact the sunderer is vulnerable until deployed also encourages flanking tactics and careful use of the ability. It also prevents groups of sunderers using the ability too close together since the no-deploy circles.

    While I understand this ability will have to be nerfed, I would like to see it still perform similar to how it does now. Sunderers are still killable, and I have died many times. But it encourages the use of teamwork and tactics to take them out. Maybe increase the no-deploy range of other buses when a sunderer with this ability is deployed, and obviously tweak the fire rate to be more reasonable, but I would still like for deployed sunderers to be a lethal threat.

    Reactive armor while still seemingly buggy is also a step in the right direction. With teamwork, the sunderer becomes extremely resistant. I would like to see a top and maybe bottom armor, but overall I think it is close to what it needs to be. The only issue is that I feel it might be the best option for sunderers, maybe it would be a good idea to allow players to equip 2 defense slots at once? Otherwise I don't feel the other options would have much use. But either ways I think reactive armor should stay in a state similar to what it is now.

    Overall I'm sorry to those who hate it but I really liked this update. I think it would've been better to patch it up after a 2-3 days instead of a week, but I'm having a lot of fun with these new playstyles so I won't complain. I hope the devs don't get scared and nerf everything to the ground, I think it is a really good idea to make sunderers a lot stronger, specifically when deployed. Obviously not this powerful, but really I just think this is the right direction, just some minor tweaking and I think sunderers will be right where they need to be.
    • Up x 3
  2. Madoki

    I think if you want that power you should risk too. I propose that point defens system reduce dmg very fast- so outside minimum dmg range it should do nearly no dmg. Or it should need 15/20 sec to activate. Also one sundie shouldn;t be able to destroy base in 20 sec then move.
  3. Gyallarhorn

    I'd suggest toning the Rate of fire down to a more reasonable degree that would still be very high and dangerous.

    But add a drawback to it. Make it like Barrage, but it actively damages the sunderer for a fixed amount of HP. That way the Sunderer can quickly kill a lone tank, but afterwards would be very vulnerable and need repairs. A repair crew could also counter this effect quickly. Of course the Cooldown for this ability should also be reasonably long so a repair crew doesn't turn the sunderer into what we have right now.
    • Up x 1
  4. Keiichi25

    The Point Defense System seriously needs to be nerfed.

    The rapid fire lacks the range nerf it should have.

    The point of tanks is to engage vehicles, but I am seeing the PDS being used as long range spam cannons and not just short range defensive measures, which it basically makes it nothing more than speed hacking.
  5. TRspy007


    It wasn't meant to be launched in this state, it's obviously too strong and bugged, it'll be removed next week they said.

    That being said I do see the value in supersundees, especially when deployed. It's quite annoying to have a magrider snipe deployed buses from miles away completely killing the fight without any counter. Or a2g swoop in and delete everything unopposed. For this reason I do think they should keep the range and everything, I just think the rate of fire should be lowered and it'll be fine. For once we were able to enjoy infantry fights without having to worry about a single tank deleting all the buses.

    When deployed a sunderer should be something that is feared and can change the tide of a fight. I think although unintended this bug has brought what the sunderer should essentially be: weak while on the move, difficult to kill while deployed.
    • Up x 1
  6. Madoki

    I think it should be sth like emergency repair - which allow you to kill one tank in case of good gunners or should be split in short defence system (boosting firerate at cost of very very high dmf drop and accuracy. That way it would be defense system not press b to win) and velocity booster which would increase velocity at cost of dmg (always minimum dmg) and maybe reload time. And of course because it is a defense system it should be in defense slot not - utility. Now you have tanky sh-t which can snipe you from distance and you can;t do sh-t. You should need to cheese defense buff or attack buff- not 2 in same time. And for dmg to constructions. It should be weaker against it than a tank. Not like now - brrr and you lost ant and before you can respawn cortium silo gone. (only one pariah sundie sitting on far way hill and doing point and click).
  7. DobryiPupok

    I can suggest some fix.

    If the idea was to protect Sandy, then such powerful fire should be allowed only on those enemies who attacked the sander (caused any damage).
    Before firing, the weapon must go through the "lock-on" stage, for example, for 3-5 seconds. The enemy must see this "lock-on" too.

    This will preclude the use of powerful fire for purposes unrelated to the defense of Sandy.
  8. Aris12

    The afflicted complain that destroying a Sunderer kills the infantry fight. For some irrational cause they have particular spite for A2G and ground vehicles, namely tanks, when they score the Sunderer kill. It turns out that even if A2G and tanks were deleted you still have the LAs who C4 + Rocklet the Sunderer anyway as part of the infantry fight. It's almost as if all of you were infantry mains who want exclusive rights to Sunderer kills.

    How about this:
    We can give you what you want by giving every base a Sunderer garage (a la Oshur style) with shields. There is zero need to buff the Sunderer, just give every base one or two Sunderer garages (ok, maybe 3 to enable flanking).

    Buffing the Sunderer is going to help the Zerg, not the individual player trying to navigate around the Zerg. The reason A2G and lone tanks are a thing is because of the few players who are tired of the Zerg using greater numbers to swamp bases. Tanks and A2G allow the individual players to boast greater firepower to match up with the Zerg a bit better. I still think A2G is broken (because individual air can A2G and A2A simultaneously while individual ground can either G2G or G2A), but there's no reason to break ground gameplay with these buffs.

    Of course the update is broken and needs fixing, but even before the intended update is released, we're already close to the point where Sunderers are discount MBTs. Try 1 vs. 1'ng a Sunderer with Blockade armor and two M60 Bulldogs in an MBT head-on. You can go toe to toe against a shielded Vanguard in one of those things for the price of 200 nanites whilst the MBT player had to pay 450.

    Not gonna lie, while this update is broken, being able to take down a base in the same time it took a minecraft player to put it up is cathartic.
  9. TRspy007


    Quite the opposite actually, thanks to the fact the sunderers have to deploy and there's a no-deploy zone that prevents a mass of sunderers from deploying close together. I've been able to successfully hold back vehicle zergs for a bit with a well positioned supersundy. Obviously I end up dying eventually, but it is quite a useful tool.

    I'd say the new sunderers are much more enjoyable to counter than invisible flashes or infiltrators or a2g. I don't see why a liberator should be able to clip anything then turbo away but the sunderer which supposedly has more health and moves slower can't.
    • Up x 1
  10. DobryiPupok

    1 or 2 sandies drive up to the player-made base and kill it in 1 minute (or in 30 seconds if the base is smaller). Very funny.
  11. melioa

    finally some Fun added to the game, and most people are screaming NERF it!!!!! it is not a surprise that the game is dying with that kind of an attitude. they made it so everyone has access to this, so stop shouting NERF it! it is FUN!
    • Up x 1
  12. darkestpepsi

    Good take overall from everyone. I would argue that the rate of fire is problematic. I watched a colossus get wiped by a deployed Sundy almost immediately. Yes this did force a lot of reactive play and a change in tactics. It was certainly unexpected and made the game more challenging. But it destroyed the balance that a lot of us have come to enjoy. Saying 'it only takes 4 certs so anyone can get it' isn't really fair because many of us don't play Sundy. My Sundy is bare bones, because I use certs for other vehicles. If I wanted to participate in the Sundy dog pile I would have to do so at a severe disadvantage.

    My suggestions;

    1) Increase the deploy time. Make it painful.
    2) Decrease the range of the guns as well as rate of fire. Maybe allow the gunners to spend Cortium for increased fire and damage rate.
    3) Increase the base no deploy distance for Sundys configured this way.
    4) Prevent Sundys from deploying near one another.
    5) Increase the spawn rate, not painful but when I snipe your driver I expect to have at least three rocket fire shots on the Sundy before he spawns back in as a Max.

    Alternately;

    Make the Sundy upgrade a configuration that requires spending Cortium like the colossus. Load out the Sundy without Cortium. This would force Sundy teams to include Ant logistics into their play style. Can't take a series of bases before the neighboring Cortium deposits have been wiped out? Good...you lost the base. Don't have a squad with Ant miners? Too bad. Faction wiped out the neighboring Cortium to prevent you from base camping them? Cool. Maybe allow the Sundy to mine Cortium slowly, with over-heat on the tool so they can only harvest so much at a time. This will force Sundys to abandon base camping to head out and gather resources if they don't have an Ant team.

    All I want is balance. Right now Sundys cut my Valk in half. I use it to get from place to place, occasionally pick up a gunner to annoy the crap out of vehicles... but one Sundy cluster fire shouldn't wipe it out.
  13. Aris12

    Why would a Zerg do that? They would just get OSd.
    It's not about making each zergling pull a Sunderer, it's the fact that to unlock the full power of a Sunderer you need multiple players. That's why the presence of Galaxies and Bastions signal the heavy presence of a Zerg. There's enough Zerglings to fully operate these vehicles. How would an individual player fare in those things? Very inefficiently (because they would have to constantly be switching between driver/gunner seats).

    For your uber Sunderer to work (even with the current broken update), you still need pocket engineers to fix you up. If you are truly on your own (i.e., Sunderer with a single passenger who can switch between driver and gunner seats and hop out to repair), you still lose to Tanks (assuming the driver has brain cells). Why? Because one engineer alone cannot out-repair a Lightning, and Tanks would just peek-in and out of cover to take shots. If you are making this claim, you're likely on the side that has numeric advantage (or the on the side that doesn't have skill issues).

    I get that invisible flash and infiltrators are toxic. Unfettered A2G is also toxic, I'm with you there. However, by your logic we should make not just Sunderers, but also ANTs, Harassers, and Flash toxic in the same way. On this issue, how about ground vehicles get to boast G2G simultaneously with A2G the same way that air boasts A2A simultaneously with A2G?
  14. Aris12

    Ikr.
    Do you remember the time when for a day Tanks could aim 90-degrees up and swat air that was vertically above?
    That was very fun as well, but the developers eventually put an end to it.

    But, seriously, say we keep things as they are. Then, the game becomes more like CoD.
    Maybe Battlefield but without the vehicles. We would name it: "Infantryside 2 (with the CWIS Sunderer campers)"
    • Up x 2
  15. Keiichi25

    Thing is, sunderers should not be 'super sunderers'.

    A well placed sunderer often is hard to take down and if it is properly defended, it isn't a problem

    The problem right now with the Point Defense System it literally guarantees one shot kills with the fury/bulldog with lightings or other vehicles.

    While I have issues with bad design, this is literally making a 'defensive' weapon too offensive and not worth playing the game.

    This is similar to the major complaints in Planetside with BFRs. The BFRs were poorly designed as well which turned off a lot of players back then, because while the initial intention was to have the BFR suffer from infantry weapons, particullar making the Shield Generator vulnerable to bolt driver shots, the problem there was putting it on the back and not in a more targetable location (As it had locational damage for vehicles when Vehicles there had no locational damage)

    Also, unlike the Thunderer (The NC Deliver Mod with a rail gun like gun) there were much more of a draw back in comparison to the Magrider's Main gun which did less damage for successive hits in comparison.

    The point defense, as bugged as it is, still shows the fact it can be abused and not be the 'defense' people should be using it for.

    This literally makes ANY sunderer seem like a speed hacking abuse and even if it takes teamwork to take it down, the same is said for doing tanks and aircraft as well and has been prior to this introduction.
  16. melioa

    yeah..the Devs did what the Devs do best.....they totally nerffed the crap out of point defense, to where it is totally pointless to equip it now. so....no point for it to be used now.
  17. TRspy007


    yeah it's exactly as I feared. back to spawnkilling in flying tanks and a2g; it's impossible to sustain a fight again off hours. Back to normal. Had more fun with the broken sundees, today just sucks since it's impossible to start a fight again.
    • Up x 1