[Suggestion] My ideas for Canis and Spiker

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Hegeteus, Jan 1, 2018.

  1. Hegeteus

    Mind that I'm not an active player of VS, but since the forums have gotten so boring with whining I wanted to begin a different kind of thread to share my ideas for Canis and Spiker, which currently have gimmicks that aren't very interesting.

    What I'm suggesting, might be stupid but feel free to discard it all or show better ideas.

    Canis: Devs gave Canis bigger ammunition type, but what I think they did wrong with it was only touching the headshot multiplier. What I would like to see and try, is something like a solo target version of Lasher where skill lies in the ability to lead shots, not pinpoint accuracy in itself. While everyone can agree that Lasher is not OP in 1v1, I can see how Canis could've followed in it's footprints to dish out some big and slow plasma balls(faster and smaller than Lasher). This would either mean the removal of normal fire mode, or making UA an ammunition type that pretty much changes every aspect of the gun(with possibilities including damage, rate of fire, velocity etc).


    Spiker: As a pistol enthusiast(of select tastes ;)), I've checked Spiker out and it's charge mode wasn't really useful for a stalker cloaker or a functional subsidiary to a primary weapon. As I've suggested before, I'd give Spiker a damage mode similar to Aphelion: Once you fire enough shots, you'll then automatically unleash a more powerful one(unless it cools down). You wouldn't need to pay any increased attention to this except for being accurate where it matters and I imagine it would become a tight routine for those who use it regularly.


    Note, that this is NOT a balance statement. Only a suggestion to make these weapons interesting regardless of their state or that of their enemy faction peers. If I see people throwing poop at each other again, I'll appear under their beds with my Mag-Scatter
  2. Campagne

    I could see how that might work for the Canis, but I don't think the UA should completely alter the weapon. It seems to me that wasn't the devs.' intentions when the unique attachments were designed.

    There would also need to be a fair and legitimate disadvantage to using UA which doesn't impact velocity, as doing so would make the weapon unusable with a suppressor. I suppose the increased inaccuracy could still work for that? I personally don't like this solution though. Inaccuracy is not fun if it's not a firehose of bullets.
    • Up x 1
  3. LordKrelas

    Don't a lot of people hate the blast wave effect of the Aphelion, since it needs to eat the magazine to use it?
    As an infantry weapon, it'd also mean it'd not likely to be possible to reach it without burning a magazine & accuracy at the same time.
    • Up x 1
  4. Prudentia

    I'd Love to have a Lasher with a Supressor. finally i could be stealthy with it :p

    The issue with using the Aphelion mechanic for an infantry weapon is that infantry is a lot smaller and a lot more mobile. the closest thing to an infantries ADAD is a magrider stopping to strafe and changing direction... aka not even in the same universe of movement.

    Something way cooler for both would be a chargeup of a different sort. instead of using TRs faster firerate, getting more damage per shot fired would be quite unique.
    EG; Canis starts at 167/550, which is the same as the lowest DPS 167 weapons. but over something like 10 shots it slowly ramps up to 200 via "overheating".
    or, to keep the gladius as the "hardest hitting SMG ever designed" use a 652/143-652/167 model. (can't remember what the RPM of the anchor is, probably wanna keep it a bit lower than that.

    A similiar system for the Spiker where if you really spam it you can easily kill 2 people with nanoweave, but if you are more deliberate it'd be closer to 1500/at max 2000 damage per mag.
    • Up x 1
  5. Hegeteus


    I have to admit, I didn't take suppressor into consideration at all(as I never use them!). With my idea, it would be ridiculously unfit for the Canis if it had even remotely similar visuals than Lasher. It's not like attachments of different slot ruling one other out would go neatly either...

    Only way for this to co-exist with suppressor would be by messing around with attachments ruling one another out or giving Canis two firemodes, both of which could be cumbersome for user.

    The issue with using the Aphelion mechanic for an infantry weapon is that infantry is a lot smaller and a lot more mobile. the closest thing to an infantries ADAD is a magrider stopping to strafe and changing direction... aka not even in the same universe of movement.

    I was thinking it could trigger more often, but have less impactful heated shots to not affect it's overall power in too wonky ways. It could trigger more than once per clip, while having rest of the stats to match. My initial thought would be at the middle of a clip and the end of it
  6. Prudentia

    so basically alternating damage for bullets? something like 167, 167, 200, 167, 167, 200?
    • Up x 1
  7. LordKrelas

    Just make sure it doesn't easily eclipse NC's high-damage when playing with enhanced damage-per-shot since it's higher RPM.
    • Up x 1
  8. Prudentia

    yes i already mentioned that.
    • Up x 1
  9. adamts01

    I'm against bigger bullets. The only outcome of that is that dps gets toned down and the gun turns in to a noob weapon. And I think these guns should be geared towards vets who have nothing else to buy, not new players with plenty of options.

    Extra power on the last shot is also bad. As close quarters weapons you're dead if you get to the last shot and two guys aren't dropped by that point.

    Any "gimmick" a weapon gets is probably going to sacrifice traditional ttk, so it has to serve a useful utility purpose. I think the Betelguese has a great mechanic that these guns could share. When paired you'd never have to reload again. As this is less powerful than on an LMG they could also get a modified EMP effect for UA or alternate fire mode in exchange for a loss of DPS. Knock out sensors and IFF, delay ability usage, 1/3 extra damage against shields but 1/3 less against full health. It could work well in a team setting but probably get you killed in a 1v1.
    • Up x 1
  10. Hegeteus

    Something of that sort, or a burst of bullets we used to get with the release state spiker. There would have to be something to keep it in check though, for example RoF. It's possible though that this kind of weapon behaviour could mess with people's heads.

    However, if people wanted to keep two firemodes on spiker I could see the second one being like the primary weapon attachments: Independed rounds to be reloaded separately when possible. What's currently bad is, that no one has the time or reason to loudly charge a sidearm in a tight situation. If enemies know you're coming, you better come equipped with a primary weapon
  11. Hegeteus

    Lasher has biggest projectiles in the small arms game, but do you view it as a noob weapon? I've used it on 1v1 when necessart and am just wondering if there is any conceivable possibility to refine it's idea(to find balance between size and velocity) I would never throw this idea to live before giving it deep thorough test on PTS. On high chance, I would scrap it on my gut instinct too.

    As for Spiker, I thought Aphelion releases more heated shots than the one at the end of a clip. I apologize on not being well informed on newest gen VS weapons.

    Part of the purpose of this thread was to stir people's imagination and see some creativity. I love weapons that got gimmicks especially when they're functional. Heat system really is a good example of that
  12. LordKrelas

    1v1 the Lasher is horrid, due to low RPM & velocity.
    It's a true support weapon - to a more severe degree than the Chaingun.

    When used tactically or in groups let alone as a support, the splash can be useful, since it can hit past & around cover.
    However in 1v1, it's unable to compete against most weapons in that range.

    Just to mention
  13. adamts01

    It's obviously not a 1v1 weapon, but the shooter can miss his target by 3 feet and still do max damage, and chip away at everyone in an 18 foot diameter circle. That's the epitome of a low skill weapon. I have a personal disdain for the reliance of aoe weapons in this game (flak, HE, C4, grenade/rocket spam, Coyotes, Hyenas.....) I think the Lasher fits that category of weapons, which all negatively affect competition.
  14. Hegeteus

    This is why I took Lasher as an example: We definitely know it's not OP in 1v1 and I was wondering what would it take to have a similar kind of weapon that wasn't bad in 1v1? Would it maybe be bound to be unbalanced, or would we eventually end up with a regular gun?

    Simplest form of my idea is lasher without splash but more rewarding direct hits. To be more specific, it would be similar only in the sense that it doesnt fire traditional bullets
  15. LordKrelas

    You also have to watch that it isn't the best thing going past 1 gun.
    If 1 is bad, but two can handle most threats for example.

    You're gonna have to be more particular then.
    Most of the Lasher, is splash, slow velocity, slow RPM.
    With a wider spread built around the splash.
  16. Hegeteus

    Sorry for bringing my idea clumsily. What I mean is a weapon, that has a slow velocity paired with the unusually large projectiles and/or damage to match it. These qualities each would be stretched around to make it balanced and fun for 1v1. In other words, a weapon that requires skill in different form

    We could end up with projectiles that aren't very much different from normal bullets, but different enough to have a visible effect and feel. How taxing this would be to engine is also one thing to consider.

    I just don't really know if anything like this would be possible. All I've seemed to have posted is problems, not solutions
    • Up x 1
  17. Prudentia

    thats not how the lasher works. the projectiles are barely bigger than normal ones which means you have to get actual direct hits to deal 200(and a bit) damage with a 333rpm weapon. or you go straight for the feet which means most of your shots will deal 75 damage and a few of them will deal less than 200.
    The lasher is not a low skill weapon because there is nothing in it's design that compensates for lack of skill. it's also not a high skill weapon cause there is nothing that actually rewards skill all that much.
    It's an easy to use tool and a very bad weapon.
  18. adamts01

    Direct hit damage is a last resort as a Lasher user, you know that as well as everyone else. I play all 3 factions, I know exactly how Lasher squads work.
  19. Prudentia

    yet in your comment you claimed that the lasher was a weapon that can still get direct hits if it misses it's target by a full meter
  20. adamts01

    Full AOE damage. Sorry for the miscommunication.