[Vehicle] Mustang AH

That's why. Nothing in the NC arsenal should be nerfed until that gets closer to 33% for NC.

Alert Victory is the most reliable stat for weapon balancing.

the old alert metric for measuring empire strength is not a terrible way to determine which empire is underperforming, but individual weapon balancing im not so sure of. However, one of the big selling points of planetside 2 is asymetrical balance. It makes the game a lot more than a rock paper scissors match, and for me personally, that is just super great. Viva faction diversity! mild nc buff though

I didn't say HARD, I said DANGEROUS... to get in instagib range you're placing yourself in counter dumbfire range, you're close enough for a couple Strikers to vaporize you, the LPPA is generally safe to use. AA can prevent you using it effectively, but unless you're dumb, you almost never die except to other ESF's with an AB Fuel LPPA Scythe. It's risk vs reward. LPPA can spam infantry outside G2A lock range even.

Also, what the PPA does do besides AI funnily enough is what the AH was most heavily nerfed against back when they did nerf it's A2A capability (because it used to be insanely OP at launch, I miss using that broken air destroyer, but glad to not face it anymore also), heavy air. LPPA actually does respectable damage to all air other than ESF (though Valk's require humping their topside, and engaging libs requires dangerous ranges if it's a Dalton, Gals are pretty cake tho)

In any case, no, the Banshee isn't worth it. it gives up WAY to much for far too little.

LPPA and AH are both pretty balanced though differently.

Unless I'm fighting some ace of the server (in which case, they could prolly use the damn LPPA and win), I have no problem taking on an AH user head to head using a rotary nosegun

lol no.

Much as I hate to say it; the AH is not notably over performing in any category save aircraft kills. Is it easy mode and super powerful? Yup. Broken? Nah.

Buff the Banshee instead so it can compete.

as a long time NC pilot, I concur. I'd say the same of the ppa but I feel it does well enough at AI duty that the lack of A2A is justified.

Agreed. If anything tweak fliers to take slightly less damage from the AH and call it a day.

I see the VS OP on this, however, it's not because VS weapons are OH MY GURD SUPER OPPPPP NURF PLZ, but more of it being extremely easy to use the empire weapons, which the pros of this game flocked to, leaving NC and TR with fewer pros, but even more so when TR has better leadership and outfits, and leaving NC dead last with fewer pros to even begin to form more strategical oppositions, we often don't have the pop, which is why NC constantly struggles to catch up, and the trend is getting only worse and worse. ALL weapons has ups and downs and balances, and NONE are OP, but those that are often get nerfed anyways.

Summary! YAY!: NC lacks in skillful players and population, TR has the middle pop of pros and the leadership, and leaving VS with all applied benefits, leadership, great outfits, pros, and seriously easy weapons to use, and in all seriousness, needs to have a health debuff under all those weapons they got, specifically the Orion and insta-hit weapons. It has gotten so damn hard to counter this, that I deliver my verdict on this.

The AH damage vs air is pretty good where it's at, it's the other AI noseguns that could use a buff against air. They don't need to be an alternative to the regular noseguns for A2A, but they shouldn't be a big "come kill me" sign either.

I don't understand the notion that the AI noseguns should basically be useless against air, especially considering how the A2A secondaries do little to pick up the slack, and how most ESFs and libs in the air seems to be targeting and chasing enemy ESFs with such fervor.

I'm basing my statement on how the AH performs against air compared to the other AI noseguns, it's way out in front on kills against air, followed distantly by the Banshee and even more distantly by the PPA.

For my money I think having the AI nosecannon -should- all but bar you from targeting air units specifically, but also vehicles in general. Otherwise we fall into the category of "Why wouldn't you use the AI option? Since you could far the crap out of infantry and then murder armor as well."

I don't want them to be comparable to the other noseguns, I just want them to be capable enough so people don't target them for an easy kill. The AH does this pretty well, while still being good at infantry farming. Even though I have seen pilots use the AH as an A2A weapon exclusively, usually coupled with coyotes or tomcats, they are mostly successful against players at a lower skill level. Someone of equal skill with just the stock nosegun will tear them apart.

If the banshee received a damage buff, and the LPPA had a higher ROF, velocity, and lower damage(to keep the same DPS), they would be closer to the AH, with regard to A2A engagements.

I didn't say VS weapons are OP. I've never said that in any thread in 3 years. But what sense does it make to nerf NC weapons when they're losing more alerts? And its not a population issue, normally TR or NC has a pop advantage on Connery at the least, sometimes VS gets ahead, but overall each empire has an advantage here and there. It evens out in the end.

I don't buy the fact that 33% of players on all 5 PC servers are somehow less skilled than everyone else. Especially when in 2012-14 we were curb stomping TR and VS so bad they had to ally with each other on Helios/Connery.

i dont think the banshee needs a damage buff, i think it needs an area buff. when they took it from 0.5 down to 0.3 it made it SO hard to hit anything with the inaccuracy of the spray

Coyotes used to be enough to defend my LPPA scythe against most enemy ESFs (other than aces who would out dps them with pure skill)

now though, any ESF worth it's salt is running stealth, and coyotes are worthless.

Can't say I mind TOO much, since I always thought they were pretty cheese and broken (more so than TomCats which felt like a proper dedicated A2A secondary IMO) but they're effectively useless since the peopl you need them most against are unaffected.

And TomCats will NOT allow you to use only them for dogfighting. Face hug tomcats and they're useless, which as it happens is how most people dog fight. They're good for heavy dmg vs bigger air threats, for taking out runners, and for teaming up on enemy air, but 1v1 tomcats just don't work against anyone who knows how to fight them.

AH can actually pair with TomCats and do ok, the Tomcats give the Reaver the range the AH lacks, while the AH is good in face hug duels.

Hmm...

LPPA: Can fire from longer distances and kill more safely
AH Mustang: must get in closer in which time the LPPA can fire off a few shots that kill infantry already without giving them the option to flee (how can you with that ROF&Splash, there's no time to get behind cover unless you are almost in cover already). The AH can then OHK infantry, which doesn't really make a difference with the LPPA since in both scenario's they can't escape anyway. But this is partially RNG, I've shot at someone at around 40m distance and saw all shots go exactly around them. Often you still need 2-3 shots simply because the pellets go in random directions and it's still a shotgun: contrary to what people believe it requires more accuracy to work because you need those pellets to hit with the first shot.

If we assume it doesn't it directly for 425 damage and only hits with it's maximum indirect damage, which I think is fair since there will probably be one full it in between... And this requires less aim than the AH and can be used at longer ranges.

200 RPM or 3 1/3rd shots per second
4 shots to kill with the splash alone
You are killed in 1,2 seconds.
Infantry sprint at 27,75 KPH (from a reddit threat, didn't find any other info), or 7,7m/s
You have time to run 9,25 meters, which is about the length of a Sunderer, if you were sprinting the moment the first shot landed. That's not a lot of distance to get beneath cover that can stop a LPPA.
Assuming you were standing still before it gets worse. It takes about 0,25 to 0,3 seconds for a human to react, most of which is the time it takes for the signal to change from electricity to the stuff that causes your muscles to contract. So assuming you are the young, fast type of 0,25 seconds reaction time you only have 0,95 seconds to start sprinting and get behind cover, which leaves 7,3 m distance you have to get below cover good enough against a LPPA... Which means you are dead in most cases just as clearly as with the AH. Only the AH has much more RNG and does not always OHK (in fact, unless you are almost on top it doesn't OHK at all)

Yes, I am.
Main NC, lolpods ale the way.
Are you really going to day AH is OP?

for 5 shots with semi-auto - it must

Incoming AH nerf threads, October "whine of the month" confirmed

TLDR: M30 Mustang AH takes high skill to use well, so new players can't just buy it and do well with it, so only a small number of people abuse it on the battlefied, which means less total victims, which means less outcry, which means no nerf.


M30 Mustang AH is regarded by many to be very powerful. I heard rumor that it is the favorite ESF Loadout in Server Smash (among all Loadouts and all Factions). You can see ESF SS Weapon use here:
http://planetsidebattles.org/matches/ (select a finished match, then select the tab for "Weapons" under "Leaderboard"; NOTE: I'm not seeing any data listed when I look at the page right now, but it usually does list data)

However, M30 Mustang AH is a Weapon that requires higher ESF skill in Movement and Aim to really crack its potential. You can see that in the stats below (ESF AI Weapons Average Uniques) that lower BR Reavers favor Breaker Rocket Pods over M30 Mustang AH at a high rate. And that M30 Mustang AH users skew much higher in the % of their users that are higher BR.

The M30 Mustang AH's high skill "barrier to entry" limits the ability of bandwagon jumpers to use the M30 Mustang AH effectively. Which keeps the total number of M30 Mustang AH users down. Which leads to lower volume of rampant abuse of its power on the battlefield. Less volume of abuse leads to lower outcry, which leads to no nerf.

The old M14 Banshee had a much lower skill barrier to entry, so lots of bandwagon jumpers starting using it, which led to rampant abuse of its power on the battlefield, which lead to outcry against it and to its eventual nerf.

ESF AI Weapons Average Uniques
==========================
ALL BR: Dual Photon Pods (VS: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon)........................745
Q4 BR: Dual Photon Pods (VS: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon).........................340 (46% of All Dual Photon Pods users)
BR100: Dual Photon Pods (VS: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon).........................159 (21% of All Dual Photon Pods users)
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ALL BR: Light PPA (VS: AI Nosegun)..................................................................686
Q4 BR: Light PPA (VS: AI Nosegun)...................................................................406.7 (59% of All Light PPA users)
BR100: BR100: Light PPA (VS: AI Nosegun).......................................................234 (34% of All Light PPA users)
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ALL BR: Breaker Rocket Pods (NC: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon)...................874
Q4 BR: Breaker Rocket Pods (NC: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon)....................432.6 (49% of All Breaker Rocket Pods users)
BR100: Breaker Rocket Pods (NC: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon)....................204 (23% of All Breaker Rocket Pods users)
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ALL BR: M30 Mustang AH (NC: AI Nosegun).......................................................480
Q4 BR: M30 Mustang AH (NC: AI Nosegun)........................................................307.9 (64% of M30 Mustang AH users)
BR100: M30 Mustang AH (NC: AI Nosegun)........................................................190 (40% of M30 Mustang AH users)
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ALL BR: Hellfire Rocket Pods (TR: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon)....................1100
Q4 BR: Hellfire Rocket Pods (TR: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon)......................518.7 (47% of All Hellfire Rocket Pods users
BR100: Hellfire Rocket Pods (TR: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon)......................238 (22% of All Hellfire Rocket Pods users)
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ALL BR: M14 Banshee (TR: AI Nosegun).............................................................433
Q4 BR: M14 Banshee (TR: AI Nosegun)..............................................................269.2 (62% of All M14 Banshee)
BR100: M14 Banshee (TR: AI Nosegun)..............................................................155 (36% of All M14 Banshee)

source: http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/ (sort by ESF: All BR, Q4, BR100)


Here are some performance stats for the ESF AI below. (Please note that "per hour" stats are not accurate/useable for ESFs because the switching between Nosegun/Wingmount Weapons causes the inactive Weapon to not register as time having the Weapon; so I use "per unique" instead)


ESF AI Weapons Average Kill-Per-Unique: ALL BR (sorted by highest)
=================================================
M30 Mustang AH (NC: AI Nosegun).....................................................................11.2
Light PPA (VS: AI Nosegun)................................................................................9.8
M14 Banshee (TR: AI Nosegun)...........................................................................7.3
Hellfire Rocket Pods (TR: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon)...................................7.2
Breaker Rocket Pods (NC: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon).................................6.1
Dual Photon Pods (VS: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon)......................................6

source: http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/ (sort by ESF: All BR, Q4, BR100)


ESF AI Weapons Average Kill-Per-Unique: BR100 (sorted by highest)
==================================================
Light PPA (VS: AI Nosegun)................................................................................12.3
M30 Mustang AH (NC: AI Nosegun).....................................................................12.2
M14 Banshee (TR: AI Nosegun)...........................................................................9.5
Hellfire Rocket Pods (TR: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon)...................................8.1
Dual Photon Pods (VS: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon)......................................7
Breaker Rocket Pods (NC: All-Purpose Wingmount Weapon).................................6.7

source: http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/ (sort by ESF: All BR, Q4, BR100)